Discussion re: the physics behind negative energy systems with radiant spikes

[Tecstatic]

@lamare,

Thank you once more.

The question I asked I consider very difficult to answer.

It seems to me Meyls explanation don't fit with what I saw, to be sure I have to do more experiments. But for the time being I am committed otherwise.

I will ask my wife to buy more Christmas spheres, so I can give it a try later.

I must say I also considered my experiments as "toy" experiments with potential for more.

But until better understood, I guess this type of experiments will be a true time eater.

Eric

PS. You mentioned that Tesla used bifilar spiral coils. Do you think I should do that too with my spiral PCB coils ?

If yes, why ?

[lamare]

Hi all,

I have joined some interesting posts together about capacitors:

YouTube - capacitor spontaneously filling with sec 15-3 turned off

YouTube - StandingCaps

the purpose of this thread is to share systems that create a conditioned capacitor that regains standing voltage once discharged, with the ultimate aim of perhaps developing a self sustaining or cop > 1 system that does useful work.

As for the use of capacitors, there's an interesting post over here mentioning some experiments at MIT:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...dollard-2.html

"Next we have a three-piece dissectible Leyden Jar consisting of two metal cups separated by a glass cup. When charged with the Wimshurst machine, we see by touching it with the shorting rod that it holds a large amount of charge. However, when disassembled, the metal cups can be brought into contact with each other and no spark will be generated. When the jar is reassembled it can then be discharged. This demonstrates that, in this situation, the charge actually resides on the surface of the glass (a dielectric), not on the metal."

Lamare,
I have gone back through all the posts now and I find something very intriguing in your posts. Following the second link to an experiment done by "TRICKY MIT, as usual. The man charges a Layden Jar capacitor. Then he takes the capacitor apart and touches the plate together and nothing happens when he shorts it out. But what I find is there are no electrons hanging to the plates at all, since there are none. My question to you is where is the energy to be found? I know the typical answer, I want the real answer. I know the man demonstrating knows but do the EE's know. Or are they just reading from the playbook of Dick and Jane to wright equations for more loops.
John B

Hi John,

The energy is to be found between the plates. This can be seen with mica caps. Charge it up. Take out the mica and put it between two other plates and that cap is then charged. I will admit I haven't tried this to prove it, but have read it somewhere.

Mica is crystalline. But with an air gap capacitor, can the charge be blown away? What about a vacuum as the gap? Or rarefied gas? Is the aether cystalline in nature? Hmmm.

John, when we charge a cap with RE, it appears that we create an electret with that capacitor. Have you noticed dendrite type growths in capacitors, like in lead acid batteries? Does it account for the holding voltage?

Looks like capacitors are a lot more interesting as they used to be.

First of all, it is possible to condition capacitors (i.e. charge them with "radiant energy"), such that they will charge themselves, apparantly out of thin air. (See the YT video on "StandingCaps")

Secondly, one can disassemble a charged capacitor, a capacitor with a dielectricum (in this case glass) and then the metal plates will no longer hold any charge, until the dielectricum is but back again.


What can we say about this.

The fact that the capacitor plates do no longer spark when the dielectricum has been removed, does not necessarily mean there is no charge being stored on the capacitor plates, whatsoever. According to classic theory, the capacitance of a certain set of plates increases significantly when the space between the plates is filled with a proper dielectricum. This is being applied in electrolyte capacitors (or elco's for short) for example.

So, it is clear that at least most of the charge -- and thus the energy -- is stored inside the dielectricum, but I have a very hard time believing no charge is actually stored on the metal plates at all. In proportion it is just a tiny little bit, but not zero. So, I think on that part, this MIT experiment is not really that shocking.

However, what is interesting, is that the dielectricum apparantly is capable of keeping it's charge, even when the metal plates (and therefore: any polarizing external -- to the dielectricum -- electric fields) are removed.

That means that the dielectricum, at least when it is glass, becomes an electret:

Electret - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Electret (formed of elektr- from "electricity" and -et from "magnet") is a dielectric material that has a quasi-permanent electric charge or dipole polarisation. An electret generates internal and external electric fields, and is the electrostatic equivalent of a permanent magnet.
[...]
Electret materials are quite common in nature. Quartz and other forms of silicon dioxide, for example, are naturally occurring electrets. Today, most electrets are made from synthetic polymers, e.g. fluoropolymers, polypropylene, polyethyleneterephthalate, etc. Real-charge electrets contain either positive or negative excess charges or both, while oriented-dipole electrets contain oriented dipoles. The quasi-permanent internal or external electric fields created by electrets can be exploited in various applications."


If we then take a look back at Inquorate's standing capacitor, it is clear that something similar takes place in both cases.

This suggests that once you have a polarized electret in between metal (capacitor) plates, that the electret will charge the plates. Apparantly, some electrons are drifting trough the electret from one plate to the other, such that the plates becomes charged, and we can measure a voltage on the outside.

If we once again assume that "radiant" energy basically is the electric field, which can exist without current, without electrons moving around, it appears to be clear that "radiant charging" primarily polarizes the dielectricum and energizes that, while the capacitor plates themselves are charged later by the polarized dielectricum, the elektret.

That would explain both effects, as far as I can tell....

[lamare]

One more thing to add:

Did you guys notice that on the MIT clip, there's a text message that charging a Leyden Yar, a capacitor, with a Wimshurst machine produces stronger sparks?

Now, what's a Wimshurst machine?

Wimshurst machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Wimshurst machine is an electrostatic device for generating high voltages developed between 1880 and 1883 by British inventor James Wimshurst (1832 – 1903)."

An electrostatic device. It produces a "static" electric field.

In other words: the fellow is charging his Leyden Yar with "radiant" energy.....

[lamare]

Looks like I made a little error. The Wimshurst produces high voltages, high potential, but that's not the same as an electric field.

Anyway, this story brings up an interesting question:

Where do all our electrons go, when we charge a capacitor the normal way?

The only thing I can come up with, is that they are wasted. Leaking from one plate to the other, without doing any good. If that is the case, then the potential applied to a capacitor is what charges it for 99.999%, because that is what polarizes the dielectricum, while all the current we ram in is being turned into heat or something else we don't need.

So, the smart thing to do, is to charge a capacitor with high voltage pulses...

Trough a diode...

Do I hear anyone say schoolgirl??

spikes???

[Inquorate]

Eloquence

Keep it coming Lamare, your descriptions appear to accurately describe the mechanism behind the effects I've observed in my experiments and also those that others have reported.

Using unique arrangements of Electret capacitors and multiple harmonically oscillating coils and radiant energy could well trick the aether to give up energy by attempting to equalize the changing strain we impose upon it.

Interesting times

[lamare]

@Inquorate:

This stuff is keeping me awake -- it's 3:00 in the morning over here now...


Anyway, I was thinking the following.

If your conditioned capacitors indeed have formet electrets inside, it might be very interesting to see wether or not you can speed up the "self charging" cycle by connecting a resistor in parallel with your volt meter.

If I understand this right, the electret will try to charge the cap trough the load, which is your voltmeter at the moment. So, if you decrease the resistance of the load, try for example 1k - 10k - 100k, then it should be easier for the electret to charge your cap.

If that is the case, then you should be able to use such a conditioned cap as a COP>1 device, as follows:

a) charge cycle: power a high resistance load.
b) discharge cycle: power a low resistance load.

Only drawback would be that the current during the charge cycle would go in the opposite direction as during the discharge cycle

Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Inquorate]

Opposite

I've thought about that; series parallel connections of Electret (conditioned) capacitors will be pushing; whereas the bedini type conditioning process is pulling; radiant spike.

But if we make the load a coil, we can push in one direction and pull from the other end with the coil collapse.

I'll be back online post surgery in a week or two, can't wait to get working on this, and work out the wiring.. which I do best thru experiments, I can only visualize so much before the brain complains..

YouTube - need help with a circuit

YouTube - TS commutator

Enjoy your sleep when it comes

[Guest]

coils

Hi all. Thanks for the chance to speak here.

By filling a coil, wound in one direction at resonance with radiant energy, (captured from the Bloch wall of a spinning homopolar generator and filtered using a negative resistor) over one half of a core which completely absorbs the building magnetic charge, (possibly up until resonance is reached), until the field no longer builds, but is static, and then allowing the creating scalar field in the wire to collapse, without shorting it out, and immediately killing the magnetic charge, while powering up another coil on the second half of the core, wound in the opposite direction, the magnetism in the core will, instead of draining along with the falling coils magnetic moment, fill with an ever increasing magnetic potential, as it is instantly reversed by the now building opposing field, resulting in the formation of a progressively stronger core field, which, when itself reaches resonance with the material of the core, will self oscillate, and begin to self radiate Energetic Neutral Atoms, (where previously they were only radiated as a result of the fields rotation, they now are emitted at an exponentially higher rate), which can then be used to do anything we want. This longitudinal Tesla wave is collected from the core using a third central coil of tunable length, and has a floating ground. One wire transmission.

This energy has four phases. It interacts with matter before the time component of the universe has a chance to determine the atom's position, and so is the pre-cursor field, or Beardon's Dirac sea tickling.

The exact design of this device has been drawn by Tesla, but not built to my knowledge.

I would like to do so, but have not the math skills to tune it to resonance.

But I am sure it is the rotating, (possibly resonant) Bloch wall at the center which engenders the raised energy potential of the atoms within a system to do work on that system without requiring entropy, but rather operating on the endothermic side of the equation. ( I hope I have that around the right way)!!

This is analogous to a sticky elastic field, which engenders more energy to join itself back together once moved by traveling mass, due to skin tension, (in the order of 10^13 times more), than it offers as resistance to necessarily lower energy levels of matter to move through it, as it gives matter form, and so must be denser than all matter, thus the lack of observable matter in the energetic void of space.

Daniel.

[lamare]

Anyway, this story brings up an interesting question:

Where do all our electrons go, when we charge a capacitor the normal way?

The only thing I can come up with, is that they are wasted. Leaking from one plate to the other, without doing any good. If that is the case, then the potential applied to a capacitor is what charges it for 99.999%, because that is what polarizes the dielectricum, while all the current we ram in is being turned into heat or something else we don't need.

Hi all,

I have given this some further thought. See my posts over here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post76208

After some reading, it seems that the electret theory may very well be the key to understanding Bedini's systems as well as the Tesla switch. Especially this recipe for how to make electrets is so strikingly similar to Bedini's circuits, that it feels like this has to be the answer we have been looking for:

http://ether.sciences.free.fr/acroba...anelectret.pdf

Both this circuit and the fact that some people reported spontaneous recharge of capacitors and/or continuation of the charging of batteries after the power has been switched off point in this direction.

Coming back to what I said about the wasting of electrons, I think that may be wrong after all. For example, if the electrons were lost, how could the capacitor ever discharge again??

So, it appears that the electrons do stay on the metal after all. However, because the dielectricum polarizes and opposes the field generated by the charge on the metal plates, you need a whole lot more electrons in order to end up with the same voltage as without a dielectricum. So, that's why you get a bigger capacitance when you're using a dielectricum.

On the other hand, this is still puzzling, because once you remove the dielectricum, the electron charge is still left on the metal plates, which are no longer opposed by the polarized dielectricum. Since the capacitance of the plates is much less then, one would expect a much higher voltage on the plates. From the MIT clip, one cannot really say much about that, since the experimentor touched the metal "plates" with his hand, and the capacitor plates were in a different position when they were attempted to be discharged. So, IMHO any conclusion about whether or not any charge is actually stored on the capacitor plates based on the MIT clip is unreliable at best.

On the other hand, the MIT clip does show that the dielectricum inside a charged capacitor can hold its charge (or polarization) for at least several seconds. In other words: this definately confirms that it is possible to create a non-permanent electret in between capacitor plates using high voltages.

So, all these point to the same direction: high voltage (spikes) create (non-permanent) electrets inside capacitors (and probably batteries) and that is really where the energy comes from, both in Bedini's circuit and in the Tesla switch.

[Guest]

Coils

Also, I would like to add, the atom is simply a small coil, and it's charges can be manipulated into this self resonance mode. Actually it is this self resonance that gives matter it's form.

I believe it was the increasing of this resonance speed that was discussed at the turn of the 19th century, by science and academia, in response to Tesla's work and observations, which led to the public's purposeful miss-direction and deception by the controlling bodies to the belief that the speed of the entire body was being conjectured.

I refer to the arguments that "high speed" travel in trains and cars would cause the human being to expire, and explode.

This is not what was being referred to, it was the energy levels of the atom that Tesla was expounding, and the benefits that this would bring to the human condition, and all life on earth, by capturing and magnifying the life force, and transmitting it into the air, after freely re-gauging it from the void.

If any of these things seem wrong in some manner, a reason would be appreciated. Thanks.

Daniel.

[boguslaw]

The answer must be related to strange lag between voltage and current always observed in AC circuits.Call it phase change but looks like a movement of two , when one not always keep up.
Could capacitor be a simple resonant cavity like in Squash ?

[Guest]

Peace

Or, having said my piece, and finding nothing more than to be ignored, I could simply go away.

Bye,

Daniel.

[Inquorate]

I'll bite

Also, I would like to add, the atom is simply a small coil, and it's charges can be manipulated into this self resonance mode. Actually it is this self resonance that gives matter it's form.

I believe it was the increasing of this resonance speed that was discussed at the turn of the 19th century, by science and academia, in response to Tesla's work and observations, which led to the public's purposeful miss-direction and deception by the controlling bodies to the belief that the speed of the entire body was being conjectured.

I refer to the arguments that "high speed" travel in trains and cars would cause the human being to expire, and explode.

This is not what was being referred to, it was the energy levels of the atom that Tesla was expounding, and the benefits that this would bring to the human condition, and all life on earth, by capturing and magnifying the life force, and transmitting it into the air, after freely re-gauging it from the void.

If any of these things seem wrong in some manner, a reason would be appreciated. Thanks.

Daniel.

@Daniel - I sounds good in theory. There is enough to suggest that your idea may work, and as such merits experimenting to verify the operation of the basic concepts..

How would you propose to begin? Where will you start investigating and why?

If you can propose experiments you may find people come on board to help out... But every one of us has more theoretical models than time to work on them.

It is promising that no-one has objected to your ideas. This forum tends to favor constructive criticism as a method of feedback, but the ideas we all work on are so fringe that unless someone has tried similar ideas (then they would contribute and discuss) they will just make a mental note to follow up later and see how you're doing.

@all - my surgery seems to have gone well. Back home in couple of days, experiments after xmas maybe.

I'll try get the stuff done I've been talking about asap.

@ Sucahyo - I forgot to post the diodes and stuff. Will do asap.

Love and light

[boguslaw]

@Daniel - I sounds good in theory. There is enough to suggest that your idea may work, and as such merits experimenting to verify the operation of the basic concepts..

How would you propose to begin? Where will you start investigating and why?

If you can propose experiments you may find people come on board to help out... But every one of us has more theoretical models than time to work on them.

It is promising that no-one has objected to your ideas. This forum tends to favor constructive criticism as a method of feedback, but the ideas we all work on are so fringe that unless someone has tried similar ideas (then they would contribute and discuss) they will just make a mental note to follow up later and see how you're doing.

@all - my surgery seems to have gone well. Back home in couple of days, experiments after xmas maybe.

I'll try get the stuff done I've been talking about asap.

@ Sucahyo - I forgot to post the diodes and stuff. Will do asap.

Love and light

You think that my post is unrelated by I'm just using a big short.
Yes, atoms are a small coils and more particularly they are oriented in Earth magnetic field in rest state , some of them surely.
Resonance produce harmonics due to atoms returning to rest state radiating response.Where is that energy taken from ?

[Inquorate]

Thinking

You think that my post is unrelated by I'm just using a big short.
Yes, atoms are a small coils and more particularly they are oriented in Earth magnetic field in rest state , some of them surely.
Resonance produce harmonics due to atoms returning to rest state radiating response.Where is that energy taken from ?

@boguslaw - you seem to be intimating that if we vibrate a coil / LC circuit so that it oscillates at multiple harmonic frequencies of it's base natural frequency, that we can tap into the harmonic frequency (ie RF or scalar radiation) without changing the energy required to keep the oscillator going.

So if there are enough multiple frequencies developed and tapped, we are able to draw out more energy than we put in, and that this energy would come from the virtual state of the zero point energy field aka aether.

That sounds like a fair summation of dr Stiffler's work, rosemary ainslie and co, Jeannacav etc..

Interesting