Yu-Ta Tu Magnet Motor

[sigzidfit]

Hello All,

Thought I'd throw an interesting patent at you. I took a crack at replicating this with the scraps on the table. I haven't gotten her to go but it's such a simple design I thought I'd take a shot at it. I haven't seen this discussed anywhere else. Perhaps someone would like to comment on suggested values for the components. The Great JB's work is referenced in the patent as well so maybe he'd like to enlighten us.

Apparatus for self-generating a ... - Google Patent Search

The following web page has a couple of videos suggesting successful demonstrations, and is the first reference I ever saw:

Apparatus For Self-Generating A Driving Force

And here's another totally different design magnet motor patent by Yu-Ta Tu:

Apparatus for generating autogenic ... - Google Patent Search

Peace
PJ

[rickoff]

Hi PJ,

The rotating device shown in the video appears to work, but it is unfortunate that we see wires trailing off to the right without knowing what they are connected to. Evidently some of the circuitry is located apart from the device, and they just didn't want us to see that. It is hard to see how the device would function continuously if constructed as shown in the first patent that you linked to. It's easy enough to understand the concept of one rotating magnet arm and stationary coil producing an induced current to be used to activate a second electromagnetic coil wound for repulsion of a rotating magnet arm. The difficult part is in somehow providing a repulsive effect that is stronger than the attraction effects that are at work.

The third link that you provided is interesting to me since it shows a simple moving stator design. In working on my own moving stator (MOSTAT) design, I experimented with one method of movement that is quite similar to what is shown in this patent. I demonstrated this type of movement in Video #3 of the Pipe Dream video series, and this can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFxw6q6JT4Q

As you can see, the withdrawal and reinsertion movements that were done with my hand moved the stator magnet farther apart from the rotor magnets as they approached each other in order to avoid a counter-rotational repulsive effect by nullifying that effect through avoidance of it. While this method of movement appeared to be worthy of further study, I opted to pursue a different course wherein each movement would produce two accelerative effects rather than the nullifying effect of the patent design. I'm still working at improving my own MOSTAT design, and will be posting more information shortly in the Pipe Dream thread. There are numerous ways in which one could effectively move a stator magnet, and I wish that I had time to experiment with all of them, but I can only work on one method at a time. I think that my own work is proceeding in a positive direction, but would encourage others to experiment with additional methods as well. I wish you good luck with your experimentation, PJ. Do let us know if you are able to achieve any degree of success using the patent circuit.

Best regards,

Rick

[gyula]

'erfinder' kindly invited coming over here

Hi PJ,

Your second link is the site of "erfinder" who is also a member here!

Hopefully he may frequent this thread and shed some fruitful thoughts on the patent in your first link.

Regarding your third link, I recall a replication shown at overunity.com about a couple of years ago, but it was not self-running unfortunately.

see this link here: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?

and his first attempt: YouTube - Autogenic Device

his second attempt: YouTube - Autogenic Device 2

his 2D simulation of magnetic forces: YouTube - Autogenic Device Simulation 2

and his attempt to build a linear 'bearing' ala Rolamit:
YouTube - Rolamite 1

Regards, Gyula

[erfinder]

Hi PJ,

Your second link is the site of "erfinder" who is also a member here!

Hopefully he may frequent this thread and shed some fruitful thoughts on the patent in your first link.

Regarding your third link, I recall a replication shown at overunity.com about a couple of years ago, but it was not self-running unfortunately.

see this link here: Apparatus for generating autogenic energy?

and his first attempt: YouTube - Autogenic Device

his second attempt: YouTube - Autogenic Device 2

his 2D simulation of magnetic forces: YouTube - Autogenic Device Simulation 2

and his attempt to build a linear 'bearing' ala Rolamit:
YouTube - Rolamite 1

Regards, Gyula

Gyula,

Its been a very long time since I fiddled around with this circuit. The time that I spent on this device was a definite learning experience for me. Unfortunately I cannot tell you that I succeeded like the videos on my old website would suggest, on the contrary, I failed.

Many have experience with inductive trigger circuits, John Bedini popularized this old school method. Its cool that we find this circuit (inductive trigger circuit) in this patent. Whats never talked about (I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere) is that its possible to short a second coil on itself via the the transistor which is being switched. We know that we have current and voltage in the trigger coil, its doing work on the transistor, we should therefore experience the same amount of current and voltage in a second coil, and could in theory preform work with this coil on the rotor. Thats what the patent suggests anyway........

In my setup I used two multimeters, should have used three...one was used to measure the voltage induced in the trigger coil, the second multimeter was for measuring the current induced in the drive coil, a third could have been used to measure the voltage moving through the drive coil. I used a 2.5K 4 Watt pot for the resistance (R2 in Fig. 2) of the patent, feel free to use what ever you like....

At the end of the day I noted that there is current induced in the drive coil, but in my setup it wasn't enough to do work on the rotor (rotor way too heavy, coils were too large, producing only 1-50mA @ 1-3 volts depending on pot setting). High resistance on pot resulted in lower current readings, and higher voltage readings, lowering the resistance resulted in the oppsite effect.....In my opinion wire size is an important aspect to consider, among other things which I was ignorant of at the time. Use the Bedini SG trigger circuit as a guide here for your trigger and drive coil....Another suggestion would be to use small Neo magnets. Also, have a toggle switch so that you can toggle the base on and off, I did this and noted that when trigger circuit was broken, the meter measuring current went blank.....all was as it should be... The fact that current is showing up in the drive coil only when the transistor is triggered is a very good sign in my opinion.

In conclusion, does this circuit do what the patent says it does? Maybe, I can't say, as I didn't get it to work like the patent indicates it should (meaning I didn't get rotation, but I did measure current and voltage, so rotation is simply an engineering issue, the power to do work is there! Can the circuit function like the patent indicates? In my opinion, yes, I think it can. There is definitly something here, something worth investigating! Please take that last statement with a grain of salt though....I could be wrong, have been more times than I can count....hope this helps.


Regards

[gyula]

Hi erfinder,

Many thanks for coming and telling your thoughts/findings on this circuit.

I hope that your answer will also be of help to member sigzidfit.

Season Greetings and best regards,

Gyula

[sigzidfit]

Yes, thanks erfinder for showing up with the good info.

I've so far tried several different transistors and resistor combinations and a couple different magnets. While there does seem to be some effect, still no self sustaining rotation. The mechanical aspects of my attempts have been quite crude and I'm sure some more precision there would help.

Whats been rolling around in my head lately has been this:

What if one were to do a double solid state oscillator with two transistors and two tri-filar coils. A total of 6 coils on two cores, Using 4 strands for the SS oscillator and apply the Ya-Ta Tu circuit to remaining two coils. Would the required input be reduced or the output increased??

Peace
PJ

[erfinder]

Yes, thanks erfinder for showing up with the good info.

I've so far tried several different transistors and resistor combinations and a couple different magnets. While there does seem to be some effect, still no self sustaining rotation. The mechanical aspects of my attempts have been quite crude and I'm sure some more precision there would help.

Whats been rolling around in my head lately has been this:

What if one were to do a double solid state oscillator with two transistors and two tri-filar coils. A total of 6 coils on two cores, Using 4 strands for the SS oscillator and apply the Ya-Ta Tu circuit to remaining two coils. Would the required input be reduced or the output increased??

Peace
PJ

My advice....fight the desire to add anything to this circuit, at least till you get it working like the patent says it should. As I mentioned before, I think that this circuit has tons of potential as is.....the power for rotation is there, one must determine the proper sized wire, and plan coils for highest voltage and current. Bearings from a hard drive would probably be the absolute best for this experiment. Modifying this circuit (beefing it up) is of no benefit if we have not first accomplished self sustaining rotation.

Keep it idiot proof, stick to the circuit as its presented in the patent, discover why it must work as they claim, or determine why it cannot. Then and only then should one consider making modifications. If you have built an SG circuit then you know all you need to know already!


Regards

[sigzidfit]

If you have built an SG circuit then you know all you need to know already!

Damn dude! I must have missed something. I've built a couple of SSG fans and solid state oscillators and while the experience was quite rewarding I have no idea what you mean.

Peace
PJ

[erfinder]

Damn dude! I must have missed something. I've built a couple of SSG fans and solid state oscillators and while the experience was quite rewarding I have no idea what you mean.

Peace
PJ

Well....If you don't see the similarity then I can't help...Good luck figuring it all out and getting it to work.....


Regards

[sigzidfit]

erfinder, my last post wasn't meant to discourage you. I was only trying to make light of the fact that I didn't understand exactly what you were hinting at.

Similarities? sure...magnets, coils, resistors, transistors. Same components with similar relationships. Beyond that I'm not so sure. If you have something to say, say it. If not that's fine too.