Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

this is a design idea I came up with that's mostly a magnet motor to which I hope will require less power input then a normal PM electric motor. The idea is to not have steel cores in the coil to which a permanent magnets will stick to and need much input energy for the coil to overcome the attraction. I my design I use the most powerful magnet available and have the magnet itself (or PM field) as cores for the coil. In this kind of arrangement we only need a very small amount of input energy for the coil to create work.

Link to video: YouTube - Mostly Permenent Magnet Motor test 1.AVI

Please be open to post your comments.

Luc

[cody]

I like it
There havnt really been any solenoid motor builds on the forum yet and i think this will open up some new areas not yet explored. It works and its an easy concept which ensures its success. Im assuming your triggering off your function generator, I wonder what simple triggering circuits could be used here maybe some variant of a bedini circuit so everyone can play. Good work as usual bro!

[gotoluc]

Hi Cody,

thanks for looking and posting your comment

I'm using the output of my SG which is AC square wave. You need a polarity reverse at every stroke to make this motor work. One could do it with a DPDT relay using DC as input and use a capacitive discharge to trigger the relay coil at the desired frequency.

Luc

[jeanna]

Hi Luc,
That is really cool. A great idea.

I have a first question.
This is operating at 1.5Hz. What is the highest frequency you are able to get with this arrangement? A related q is what voltage are you using peak to peak?

thank you,

jeanna

[gyula]

Hi Luc,

Very interesting idea you are showing, thanks.
I did not get from the video, what is the material of the rectangular rod? (I try to figure out its possible permeabilty unless it is stainless steel?)
Also, in case of increasing the frequency, you may have to consider increasing eddy current losses too. Then laminations (or ferrite rods from AM radios) are an option.

Probably you would like to use a small linear bearing on the top of the rectangular so that the coil could move quasy frictionless.

Thanks, Gyula

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc,
That is really cool. A great idea.

I have a first question.
This is operating at 1.5Hz. What is the highest frequency you are able to get with this arrangement? A related q is what voltage are you using peak to peak?

thank you,

jeanna

Hi Jeanna,

thanks for your interest

This kind of motor would work best a low frequency. The more I raise the frequency the less time the coil has to travel the steel bar, so the shorter the strokes are!... unless you input more power to the coil to kick the coil faster, then you can keep increasing frequency but you will also need to increase power.

Once the coil is mounted on guides and a crank shaft installed I'll be able to tell more.

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc,

Very interesting idea you are showing, thanks.
I did not get from the video, what is the material of the rectangular rod? (I try to figure out its possible permeabilty unless it is stainless steel?)
Also, in case of increasing the frequency, you may have to consider increasing eddy current losses too. Then laminations (or ferrite rods from AM radios) are an option.

Probably you would like to use a small linear bearing on the top of the rectangular so that the coil could move quasy frictionless.

Thanks, Gyula

Hi Gyula,

thanks for your interest

The 1" inch square bar is just cheap steel bar.

Is there less eddy currents in silicon steel laminations? I'm still learning some of this stuff.

Luc

[Inquorate]

Circular from straight

Love the idea gotoluc, I often browse youtube looking at homemade steam and electric motors (something whimsical about the tap tap motion) and I've not seen your arrangement before.

This may be handy converting the thrust to torque;

YouTube - Scotch Yoke Mechanism

YouTube - Scotch Yoke Solenoid Motor

Love and light

[theremart]

cool idea...

Love the idea gotoluc, I often browse youtube looking at homemade steam and electric motors (something whimsical about the tap tap motion) and I've not seen your arrangement before.

This may be handy converting the thrust to torque;

YouTube - Scotch Yoke Mechanism

YouTube - Scotch Yoke Solenoid Motor





Love and light

That is cool!

[gotoluc]

Love the idea gotoluc, I often browse youtube looking at homemade steam and electric motors (something whimsical about the tap tap motion) and I've not seen your arrangement before.

This may be handy converting the thrust to torque;

YouTube - Scotch Yoke Mechanism

YouTube - Scotch Yoke Solenoid Motor

Love and light

Thanks Inquorate for your post and link.

Good crank mechanism

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[Peter Lindemann]

Excellent!!

Hi everyone,

this is a design idea I came up with that's mostly a magnet motor to which I hope will require less power input then a normal PM electric motor. The idea is to not have steel cores in the coil to which a permanent magnets will stick to and need much input energy for the coil to overcome the attraction. I my design I use the most powerful magnet available and have the magnet itself (or PM field) as cores for the coil. In this kind of arrangement we only need a very small amount of input energy for the coil to create work.

Link to video: YouTube - Mostly Permenent Magnet Motor test 1.AVI

Please be open to post your comments.

Luc

Luc,

Very interesting idea. With all of the motor ideas I have seen, I have never seen anything like this, so I'd say it looks like a Luc Original! I'd like to have more specific data on its performance, including volts, amps, and duty-cycle of the input, as well as the actual weight and stroke of the coil. Here's why:

One "horse-power" is generally defined as 550 foot-pounds of work per second, which when you think of it, is quite a lot. If your coil weighs one pound and is moving back and forth one foot, once every second and a half, you are producing about 1/825th of a horse-power, which is about 0.90 watts in electrical equivalent. Your claim that the system is drawing about 0.25 watts is "in the ballpark" for what we are seeing in the movement.

You can see why getting accurate information will help us determine its operational efficiency.

Keep up the great work!!

Peter

[Inquorate]

Coil collapse

It would be interesting to see the power consumption vs work done with and without recirculating the coil collapse, which I assume you are going to try and do?

[Inquorate]

driving the coil efficiently

Also, or otherwise - you could use this;

http://a6.vox.com/6a0110169c703a860d0123ddee7dce860d-pi

As the input is an alternating dc square wave.

[gotoluc]

Luc,

Very interesting idea. With all of the motor ideas I have seen, I have never seen anything like this, so I'd say it looks like a Luc Original! I'd like to have more specific data on its performance, including volts, amps, and duty-cycle of the input, as well as the actual weight and stroke of the coil. Here's why:

One "horse-power" is generally defined as 550 foot-pounds of work per second, which when you think of it, is quite a lot. If your coil weighs one pound and is moving back and forth one foot, once every second and a half, you are producing about 1/825th of a horse-power, which is about 0.90 watts in electrical equivalent. Your claim that the system is drawing about 0.25 watts is "in the ballpark" for what we are seeing in the movement.

You can see why getting accurate information will help us determine its operational efficiency.

Keep up the great work!!

Peter

Hi Peter,

thanks for having a look and asking these good questions.

In the video I'm using my SG to power the motor and it is set at 1.5Hz on square wave which is at 50% duty cycle. So there is no break in the power supplied, only a polarity shift. The Peak to Peak of the SG is 20v so we have a potential of 10v RMS. However power is limited.

To calculate the possible power output of my SG, I connected a 1% 10 Ohm 50 watt resistor to it with scope probes across and it gave a 1.5 volts RMS reading. Just now re-tested with the same 1% 10 Ohm 50 watt resistor but using my Schlumberger 7150 meter set to AC volts and I get an average of 1.5 volts reading. So I'm quite sure about the power .25 watt available power at this frequency.

The weight of the coil I will have to buy a scale to get it right. The back and forth travel of the coil on the bar is 6" inches from magnet to magnet.

Peter, at this time the motor is far from being efficient. I'm using a coil that was made for another test. With a 6" span steel bar the coil should be about 3-1/2" inch across the bar, as far as my design idea goes. I was surprised it worked with just a 1" coil. Also the opposite polarity of the magnets are not even being used! ... it should be magnetically directed to 2 steel curves (coil) which covers most of the outside of the coil to also use the outside magnetic field of the coil. I think this may further boost the mechanical power output.

While I have your attention , I have a question.... I'm thinking that surface area of magnets and coil (combination) will also boost the mechanical output as long as the coil geometry follows the Brooks coil for Maximum Inductance of wire used. I'll tell you why I'm asking... I'm thinking of making a coil that uses the full 2" square magnets for the center of the Coil opening which is a total of 8" of surface (circumference). I have a coil design program that calculates by wire diameter to get maximum Inductance and minimum resistance.

Do you think my thinking of more coil & magnet surface = more mechanical output?

Thanks for your time.

Luc

[theremart]

Crazy idea...

I have been looking for this type of motion... was thinking you could attach a hydrolic car jack to this and perhaps do useful work? Just a thought...