Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power

[petersone]

Hi Luc
What I ment by bucking coils,I think thats the right terminology,is if you have 2 coils and pass a magnet between them and the coils are wired such that they try to push the currant in oposite directions you will get no juice,it would be a useless genny,so,if used as a motor it have no bemf.In your setup,I think it would work ok,if you had 2 coils,fixed together and moving together,wired to buck,you may have to turn 1 of your mags.around,it should work free of bemf.I think all the above is correct,if not I hope the clever people here will put me right,but I'm not sure that having no bemf is good thing.I may try it with my little setup and see what happens,but I'm moving the bar and mags.same thing I think.
Best of luck.
peter

[gyula]

Hi Gyula,

thanks for the illustration ... very easy to understand now

I do trust from my repel tests that this kind of setup will not cause generator effect (BEMF) but I do not agree that it will not increase in current draw when under load.

The coils will be turned on and off at the ideal timing setting found, right?

This on off timing period will changes with motor RPM (longer at start up and shorter at full speed) right?

So if the length of the on off timing periods change with RPM then when it is under load and RPM reduces and coil on off time increases would you not think the current will increase?

I will make a video to show you the difference between repel mode and attraction mode using the same power input and you can make a decision.

Thanks for your time

Luc

Hi Luc,

Yes you are right, I have not noticed the forest for the trees... in this DC setup, Fig.A in DMMPOWER drawing if it is switched as I think and referred to you as a kind of pulse motor is switched, the current consumption will increase whenever the rotor speed is retarded by a mechanical load on the rotorshaft.
BUT then maybe DMMPOWER did not mean the switching as I understood From his Fig.A because if you read his text in the picture ( BEMF MAGNO MOTOR ) he clearly claimes:"The input current is determined by the voltage and the resistance of the coils, not the motor speed."
It is hard to make out from his drawing how exactly the switching with the two-two coil pairs are done. Later on I will continue thinking on it.

Thanks, Gyula

[petersone]

Hi Gyula,Luc and all
Would it not be the case that with the rotor loaded to say half speed,the coil would be energized for twice as much time,but only half as often?Please feel free to put me right!!
peter

[gotoluc]

I think that's a valid explanation Peter

So it does not matter at what ever RPM it goes to, it should all come to the same

I had a hard time getting my mind around that.

Thanks for setting it straight.

I have the attraction vs repel mode video uploading now and should be ready to view in one minute.

Luc

[gotoluc]

Okay,

here is the attraction vs repel mode video test.

Video Link: YouTube - Electromagnet Atraction vs Repel mode test 1

Please let me know why such a difference

Luc

[gotoluc]

Now that you have seen the video, there is something that's bothering me other the the weak repel mode. It's the cores ability to hold the magnetic field for so long!... even with my imperfect cutting job leaving air gaps it still holds the cores together after the current is removed. So I'm thinking a transformer which is closed (no air gaps) would keep a magnetic field for a very long time, which means when the first AC polarity current hits a transformer the magnetic field stays there till the the next polarity shift and so on. Would this not mean that each polarity shift is fighting against the previous magnetic field which is opposite to the new one coming in 60 times a second for those on the 60Hz grid

Luc

[Inquorate]

@ Gotoluc, what you've observed makes sense to me. Considering the magnetic lines of force from magnet or electromagnet as streams of aetheric nature, we can visualize that when attracting, the lines of force join together in a tight bundle; the 'stream' is quite strong.
When repulsing, the magnetic field lines don't meet, and like two water hoses' streams meeting, must diverge.

Love and light

I still stand by this explanation. Thanks for showing us the experiment luc

[cody]

[QUOTE]Now that you have seen the video, there is something that's bothering me other the the weak repel mode. It's the cores ability to hold the magnetic field for so long!... even with my imperfect cutting job leaving air gaps it still holds the cores together after the current is removed. So I'm thinking a transformer which is closed (no air gaps) would keep a magnetic field for a very long time, which means when the first AC polarity current hits a transformer the magnetic field stays there till the the next polarity shift and so on. Would this not mean that each polarity shift is fighting against the previous magnetic field which is opposite to the new one coming in 60 times a second for those on the 60Hz grid/QUOTE]

Exactly the same question i have been pondering as well. If you havnt seen my vids on leedskalnin you should check it out
YouTube - Ed Leedskalnin Magnet
The strange thing is that current seems to flow at a higher level using the ac signal without breaking the core connection. Break the core connection and it takes a pulse to reestablish the higher current flow again, its weird. If you can get your cores sanded perfectly flat the effect will be stronger in your e cores. Fun simple little device to notice all those strange effects, dc pulsing is wierd too.

I agree with you that attraction seems to be the obvious way to go, good vid Repulsion is just spewing the flux every where and thats energy being lost. Attraction is lining up the flux fields and circulating them in the core, which means you will be able to collect more energy on the collapse as well.

[QUOTE]Hi Gyula,Luc and all
Would it not be the case that with the rotor loaded to say half speed,the coil would be energized for twice as much time,but only half as often?Please feel free to put me right!!
peter/QUOTE]

This is an interesting point I guess the question is is weather there is an efficiency curve in relation to speed or not. Peter L was trying to maximize everyones speed to become more efficient in his motor, but that may have been due to the very short windings in his motor design.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi gotoluc, I have built air core motors and one that had 2 rotors with neo magnets sandwiching brooks coils and tests with the air cores showed equal force for attract and repel. What is probably happening with your transformer cores is that it is absorbing the flux and once you apply more power it will then repel, similar to what Robert Adams was doing by just nullifying the field. I would not use ferro cores at all, my air core motor was powerful.
peace love light
Tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Here's a pic of that motor.

[gyula]

Now that you have seen the video, there is something that's bothering me other the the weak repel mode. It's the cores ability to hold the magnetic field for so long!... even with my imperfect cutting job leaving air gaps it still holds the cores together after the current is removed. So I'm thinking a transformer which is closed (no air gaps) would keep a magnetic field for a very long time, which means when the first AC polarity current hits a transformer the magnetic field stays there till the the next polarity shift and so on. Would this not mean that each polarity shift is fighting against the previous magnetic field which is opposite to the new one coming in 60 times a second for those on the 60Hz grid

Luc

Hi Luc and All,

Thanks for showing the video. Now it makes me recall Nali2001's tests on two different core types: on a normal transformer laminated core generally used for mains transformers all over and on a so called Hypersil core. See this link and the video link in it (best to download the video for yourself):
A truly overunity Transformer / Meg

and some continuation is here:
A truly overunity Transformer / Meg also with video links in it.

His tests are great and shows what pitfalls we are to face when using off the shelf cores for different purposes.

On AC excitation of a transformer core: yes the domains change orientation whenever the AC wave changes polarity, the point is the AC wave (that comes from the mains or from a signal generator) has got a zero crossing when the instanteneous current is just zero and then changes in the opposite direction wrt it just has come from so BOTH areas of the socalled BH curve for the core is utilized, without saturation. See such BH curve here:
A truly overunity Transformer / Meg

When you use a DC source to pulse a core you will have no zero crossing in the current (unless you use a H bridge that is capable for polarity switching) so the magnetic domains always get the order from one polarity on and off state so it is very material dependent how the domains are able to reorientate themselves into their original state.

Gyula

[gotoluc]

Hi Gyula,

interesting topic! thanks for posting the links.

In user Nali2001 video: http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/DCmagnetTransformer.wmv he seems to have some success in reducing current draw by adding some small magnets to his transformer. I wonder what would happen if the magnets were larger (stronger) would the current go lower?

Is Nali2001 not sharing this setup for others to replicate? as user winsonali asked him the frequency used in this setup and received no answer

I'm quite sure you're aware that winsonali is in the process of sharing his device.

Luc

[cody]

Gyula,
Very interesting with the other type of core and shorted coil
Thanks for that, havnt seen that before. We know that silicon steal cores arnt as efficient as say metglass cores, im guessing that this may have something to do with it. Im thinking that using no core at all would be inefficient because the core seems to store the charge until you recover it. So a good core would have high permeability but extremely low residual magnetism. I believe this is why Robert Adams made his cores with magnetite.

Luc,
That is a cool vid too. Its great having a group of folks to spread this info, i would never come across all of it on my own. His setup looks straightforward enough to replicate. We know he is using taped cores. One of the coils is the input and one is a transformer coil powering the motor. Im assuming he is using pulsed dc because otherwise i dont think it would matter which way you applied the magnet. His magnet is just some neo's stuck on a transformer piece making a makeshift horseshoe magnet. At least thats my take on the vid

[gotoluc]

Luc,
That is a cool vid too. Its great having a group of folks to spread this info, i would never come across all of it on my own. His setup looks straightforward enough to replicate. We know he is using taped cores. One of the coils is the input and one is a transformer coil powering the motor. Im assuming he is using pulsed dc because otherwise i dont think it would matter which way you applied the magnet. His magnet is just some neo's stuck on a transformer piece making a makeshift horseshoe magnet. At least thats my take on the vid

Could he be using the motor in series to create the pulse DC also?

What do you think Cody?

Luc

[gyula]

Hi Gyula,

interesting topic! thanks for posting the links.

In user Nali2001 video: http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/DCmagnetTransformer.wmv he seems to have some success in reducing current draw by adding some small magnets to his transformer. I wonder what would happen if the magnets were larger (stronger) would the current go lower?

Is Nali2001 not sharing this setup for others to replicate? as user winsonali asked him the frequency used in this setup and received no answer

I'm quite sure you're aware that winsonali is in the process of sharing his device.

Luc

Hi Luc,

It is not my task to defend Nali2001 at all but during the years I have read his mails in different threads at overunity.com and all I can say is he is a helpful and sincere guy.
I managed to dig out his mail from last year when he described the test you asked of in Jack Hildebrand's topic, see here:
Simple to make Hilden-Brand style motor

The megaupload.com video he links to is the same as the DCmagnetTransformer.wmv but in a higher resolution, (filesize 15MB vs the 4MB).

So the bottom line is core saturation due to the DC pulsing the core and by using the magnets the core's magnetic working point is surely shifted back towards the middle of the BH curve from the near saturation limit area. Read user Ergo previous mail on saturation and BH curve too earlier in that thread.

(Maybe Nali2001 has not noticed winsonali's question on the frequency because since then he asked which video winsonali meant?)

rgds, Gyula