Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc, sorry I forgot about it...
I agree with your pendulum test, it is good idea to check the saturation quality of different cores with different number of turns or rather with varying the pulse width or the pulse amplitude. In this test you can even use a reed switch to start the current, in this case the pulse width changes by the reed distance from the pendulum magnet, the amplitude changes by the battery or supply voltage applied to the coil via tha switch.

'Cut and try' method is the best here I am affraid.

rgds, Gyula

Thanks Gyula for confirming the pendulum would have many testing advantages.

Cut and try is what it will have to be

Luc

[gyula]

Luc, maybe you have seen this Naudin test but if not, here it is:

Measuring the coil inductance Vs rotor angle by JL Naudin

Gyula

EDIT: here is his video on it: YouTube - Steorn motor V2: Measuring the coil inductance Vs the rotor magnet angle

[gotoluc]

Thanks Gyula I didn't see those yet.

So if we look at the graph and have the ignition point kick in somewhere between the 5 and 10 degree angle where the coils inductance is at its lowest and just 10 degrees later it jumps to 6.7 times more, what will happen to the pulse? does this cause an amplification of the initial pulse voltage?

[gyula]

Hi Luc,

What happens to the pulse? I hope what Steorn or Broli claimes that energy gain happens in the process can be proved in practice. This surely would involve voltage amplification for the pulse that manifests after field collapsing. A recovered pulse with several times higher amplitude than normally represents a higher energy capture possibility.

See here Broli's theoritical explanations:

Energy gain by induction change.

If the coil's core has got enough time to come out from saturation before the next magnet approaches it, then the collapsing field at the switch-off moment encounters an increasing inductance and the hope is that from the input energy (or rather from a high part of it due to copper and core losses) a higher energy can be captured than normally from a core that has not been in saturation before.

Hopefully we can learn about some more relevant measurements.

rgds, Gyula

[Armagdn03]

If done correctly, this can inject energy into the system. This is precisely how parametrics is achieved in oscillatory systems. A parameter change either in inductance or capacitance is induced creating a pumping of the system.

[petersone]

Hi Gyula
Thanks for your relpy/interest.With out any voltage to the coil,nothing happens,as it is iron passing iron,but with a voltage on the coil the iron on the rotor is now a tm (temporary magnet) the coil dos'nt know the difference,pm or tm.
As with pm or em it dos'nt know or care if it's attracting a tm(iron) or pm.it see's a magnet coming towards it.
All the above imho.Your/others thoughts will be of great interest to me
peter

[rave154]

GOTO, & all,
i have just successfully made a steorn motor, its clunky as hell, but works...

GOTO...i think you will need to get in on this....its right up your alley!!!!!

on a different note, i need to find something to make a nice rotor disk out of, something about 6-8 inches diameter with nice bearings...maybe a record player deck like hob uses.....any other suggestions ???? ( i am currently using a rotor of only maybe 2.5 inches diamter with 4 magnets on.and i think the mags are too close together and the reed switch isnt getting chance to turn off therebye greatly reducing the efficieny...by increasing the over amp draw...and also by having the current ON while the magnet is trying to be attracted to the core...

so, suggestions greatly appreciated.

David. D

[gotoluc]

Hi David,

I think a working Orbo will be difficult to build as the more I see the more it involve multiple (different) parameter to be exactly right.

I am building a pendulum to experiment what the effect of the changing inductance will do but that's about all for now.

A good bearing to use is the video drum of an old VCR. You may need to add a disk to it as the magnets may need to have more distance apart for it to get close to an Orbo. Or maybe just use 2 magnet positions instead of the 4

Have fun.

Luc

[gene gene]

Hi David,

How about a Ricks pipe dream set up?
There is lots of room on a bicycle wheel for magnet separation.

keep up the good work,
Gene

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Parametrics

If done correctly, this can inject energy into the system. This is precisely how parametrics is achieved in oscillatory systems. A parameter change either in inductance or capacitance is induced creating a pumping of the system.

Hi all, just to put my view on this. Parametrics is, I think, the solution or one of the solutions to excess energy. If you look closely at a lot on this forum in general can be explained by parametrics. It is a pump which takes, let say, the BEMF, and recirculates this into the system, now what is needed is the energy that is recirculated is higher than the energy in the first place. Now higher is a bold statement, but if the BEMF has an increase in energy which is hard to detect, but is there, and you keep this pump action going (be it totally electronic or mechanical) then you have a transformation of this energy to a level to be of further use.

Now in the Steorn it is both electronic and mechanical, but in its state at the moment it is not able to create a usable energy outside itself. This is the problem that confronts me at the moment.

I am more and more convinced that it is needed a combination of electronics and mechanical motion to create a real usable OU product to benifit all.

Now with the Steorn motor I think it is genuine, but, they have found that they only have a perpetual machine and can not find a way to get REAL OU. Perpetual is a bit strong, the magnets in time will wear out, so not OU. But if in the mean time more energy can be extracted from the rotation of the motor in the form of a generator, then they have something.

I am sure they have looked at all that they could think off to gain a REAL gain and found nothing. So what have they done? they have put it out under licence as it is and now it is the problem of others.

Well this is my take, sorry if others do not agree, but to gain a usable free energy source is more of a problem than creating a self running motor.

Luc you are doing great work, and I am sure that you will get there in the end, or it may be a combination with others, this is what the forum is all about, and the investigation into different effects is the main stay of this. Keep up the good work my friend. I look at different threads to find different effects, some are the same, if you stand back and look hard, the word parametric can be used in so many effects that experimenters are experiencing.

Now I would like to see a perminent magnet motor that would run on the strange electric current that I am producing on the STEAP so as to turn this into REAL usable power. Keep up the good work

Mike

[rave154]

GOTO & Gene,

thanks for the ideas, i just found an old AC/DC motor that was inside a grass-strimmer, got nice shaft, two bearings, splined end with attatchment...ive taken off the exterior coils & silicon steel etc, so i will have a go with that using maybe 2 or perhaps 3 magnets. It will look a bit goofy but should run nice.

GOTO, i like your idea of the pendulum, simple & makes switching & timing adjustments etc a lot easier not having to worry about things wizzing round at high speed and stuff. Also makes the calculations of power/work etc easy...basically.....force x distance ( or is it M.G.h ? )....all nice standard stuff......cant wait to see it

David. D

p.s ( i still cant shake this little nagging feeling inside me that the rodin coil is going to come into play with all of this ,somehow, somewhere.......oh well )

[gyula]

Hi Gyula
Thanks for your relpy/interest.With out any voltage to the coil,nothing happens,as it is iron passing iron,but with a voltage on the coil the iron on the rotor is now a tm (temporary magnet) the coil dos'nt know the difference,pm or tm.
As with pm or em it dos'nt know or care if it's attracting a tm(iron) or pm.it see's a magnet coming towards it.
All the above imho.Your/others thoughts will be of great interest to me
peter

Hi Peter,

I recall some tests I did a few years ago with ferrite rods and toroidal cores.

If you have a coil on a ferrite rod (like in an AM pocket radio receiver) and you place another piece of ferromagnetic material near to the end of the rod, you can measure a small or a big change in the coil's self inductance, depending on how close you place and what permeability your ferromagnetic material has.

I also wound a coil onto a 5cm OD ferrite toroid and then inserted diametrically a piece of ferrite rod into the toroid (there was about 1-2mm air gap only) and I also measured a big change in the toroid coil's self inductance.

So the first test above made me tell you that the coming and passing iron piece in your setup changed the self inductance of coil wound on the other iron and when you pass current in that coil, the periodically changing inductance made the current also change. I understand that you used DC current but if there is time-variant inductance in a closed circuit than it behaves like opposing or helping the current flow. IT is possible we can call this phenomena as cemf but in "my book" cemf is reserved for rotor coils that move inside stator's magnetic field and normal induction happens in the coil, while you feed the coil with current from outside too. This is why I did not like saying cemf for the phenomena your setup showed.

rgds, Gyula

[petersone]

Hi Gyula
I understand the change in inductance,but I don't think that is what I'm saying,it's simply the coil seeing a moving magnet,albeit a tm.there will be a change in inductance,but that's not it.I think it's the same as a coil with a pm core,move a piece of iron over it and you will get some juice,just the same as energizing the coil with some dc.and moving some iron,the iron is now a magnet.
peter

[Murlin]

Great work

I saw a youtube video a few years ago and I can not find it again.

It was a kinetic energy demonstration.

I cant remember exactly how it was set up, but it seemed to have a large steel flywheel mounted on a vertical shaft with a free wheeling bearing, secured to the table.


If I remember correctly there were three gears meshing and a knob that you could turn back and forth by hand.

All of the gears, flywheel and such had bearings.

It took a bit of twisting back and forth to get the flywheel spinning, but the faster it spun, the less you had to twist the knob back and forth.

Until such a slight motion was needed to keep the flywheel spinning you could do it with two fingers.

It seems a good kinetic device for this motor.

Great motor.

regards,

Murlin

[gotoluc]

Thanks Murlin for you positive comment

Luc