Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power

[gotoluc]

Thank you zhorv324,

my coils have thin wire because the total DC resistance is 36 Ohms, however, the amount of turns is very high compared to yours so the Inductance is high @ 370mH. This is the reason I decided to try these ready made coils because looking at the Flyn instructions of only 4 layers and spread out so wide I had a feeling it would use too much current to create the magnet field needed.

There is a well known coil geometry that will produce maximum Inductance for a wire length. I have a program that calculates this. Most of the time the coil layers (height) are about equal to the width and the center of the coil diameter needs to be a larger then most of the coils we wind.

If anyone is interested in this great free coil program here it is: Coil Maestro - freeware coil/solenoid calculator

There are many other parameters that need to be considered when making a coil. An important one that is often overlooked is the time constant. I think when making a motor this one would be important.

Looking forward to everyone's thoughts

Luc

[Jetijs]

Thanks Luc
Those are some great tests you made.
Helps a lot!

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

I have an update video of the Flynn Parallel path device since my first test was not well done. You will see the results are even better in this test 2 video then the previous one.

Link to video: YouTube - Flynn Parallel Path Device test 2

Luc

[Jetijs]

Great test Luc
Is that an iron or steel bar on the top side of the setup? Id so, I guess you would get even better results if you switch that with a silicon steel sheet core.
Great example of the basic process

[gotoluc]

Great test Luc
Is that an iron or steel bar on the top side of the setup? Id so, I guess you would get even better results if you switch that with a silicon steel sheet core.
Great example of the basic process

Hi Jetijs,

yes, it's a piece of Iron. I'll be working on getting some Silicon steel laminations in the next builds.

Thanks for your positive comment.

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi all,

I have not been able to get any good results (worth sharing) by adding a pickup coil to the Flynn Parallel Path device I have built ... not too sure why but I decided to put it aside for now and replicate an idea Magluvin of the OU forum and I got results as soon as I tested it.

Here is a new video of my testing the Magluvin PM flux gate coil: YouTube - Magluvin PM Flux Gate Coil test 1

Please ignore me saying the coils are 90 degrees out of phase. The coils are just at 90 degrees from each other. It's strange the stuff we say when we are doing a few things at the same time

I really like Magluvin's concept with the coils being at 90 degrees from each other. This prevents the primary pulse to transfer to the secondary. A kind of Isolation between the two. So if there's activity on the secondary we would think that it maybe coming from the PM flux

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi all,

a test I made that maybe of interest

YouTube - GOBO Magnet Motor test 1

Luc

[gyula]

Hi all,

a test I made that maybe of interest

YouTube - GOBO Magnet Motor test 1

Luc

Hi Luc,

Your setup recalls this drawing by allcanadian here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...emf-motor.html

I think your ferrite core has also a shape of the letter H and this is beneficial as allcanadian explained. You may wish to change the orientation of your magnets so that both poles of them should attract to the ferrite side, certainly giving more attraction, hence more torque.

All in all, you have done very good step again, thanks for the video.

rgds, Gyula

[gotoluc]

Thanks Gyula for posting your comment and Allcanadian's motor idea. I'll give it a try to see how it does.

I found out after doing the video that the coil core I used has a small amount of magnetism in it that was not in my favor as it was the same pole as my magnets . So I used a coil of a shaded pole motor and stuck two AM radio antenna ferrite bars in for core and got the motor turning faster (315 RPM) and using only 4 ma @ 2.84vdc. I also collect the flyback without effects to performance and have 4vdc on the 10K load. There is also next to no change when I load the motor now.

If you want a new video of the setup now just let me know.

Luc

[gyula]

Hi Luc,

It is rather strange a ferrite core like that may have even a small amount of magnetism. I am aware of specific such ferrite core coils used in monitors or tv receivers (with vacuum cathode ray tubes) that contains a small ferrite magnet attached to the end of the core and it was made rotatable. These small disk magnets were magnetized across their diameter and was used to tune the coil's inductance (they changed the permeability of the core).

Well, if you could make a photo and attach here or elsewhere it would be good, just on the coil - core -magnet position. But if you think a short video is more handy for you, then it is also ok of course.

The good thing in a H shape ferrite core is that when a permanent magnet passes by from sideway, as in your video, the side of the H mainly behave as a shield from the coil point of view and the flux collected in the side wall of the H core mainly remains on the side the magnet passes near to, so that very little flux change can be sensed by the coil, hence the near lack of back emf. How can you do this with the ferrite rods, I wonder?

Thanks, Gyula

[gotoluc]

Here is a new video: YouTube - GOBO test 2 and Allcanadian no BEMF motor test

I'm not sure if my replication of Allcanadian's No BEMF motor design is any good

Hope AC comes by to explain what I may have missed

Luc

[gyula]

Hi Luc,

I think you have built Allcanadian setup correctly, the principle works and the back emf is relatively small. However I understand you may find the 'relatively small' term is still much... with respect to either your ferrite rod test or the one before that.

I can notice these:

-- Because you have got that given sized H shaped core, the distances between the core and any two rotor magnets are longer than would be more beneficial, I mean either the H size core should be bigger or the rotor diameter should be reduced so that the distances could be less. I think Allcanadian used normal mains transformers for his tests, cut the cores to H shape at the appropiate sides, to get an open transformer H core with the original coils on it. This surely involved a higher mechanical size than your present H shape ferrite core. However I do not know how big his rotor was, compared to yours. It would be really good to welcome Allcanadian in this thread too.

-- You use disk magnets on the rotor (obviously wanted to keep the same magnets as used in your first video when they faced the side of the H core). If you had used square shaped magnets instead of the disks, the torque would increase due to the fact that the facing surfaces would be parallel ones, unlike to the disk shape where the surface is curved area, giving a much less attract force due to the facing distance's inherent radial reducement on the rotor disk magnet.

-- Looking at Allcanadian Figure 2 in his attachment,
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...bemf-motor.jpg
and considering clockwise rotation for the rotor, the line drawn at 4 o'clock position with the Off label should be On instead I think and likewise the line drawn at 5 o'clock position with the On label should be Off, this is how I could imagine the working correctly in that setup. Did you make the reed switch positioning like that?

Thanks, Gyula

[gotoluc]

@Gyula or anyone that can help.

could you post some optical switch circuits and components that can be used.

I have one of those night light that turn on when it's dark. Could I use the light sensitive resistor from it to control a mosfet gate? I have both NPN and PNP mosfet's on hand.

Thanks for your help

Luc

[gyula]

Hi Luc,
Yes you can use the light sensitive resistor as a promtply available device. You may wish to connect this resistor directly to your MOSFET gate and a positive voltage source (to which the drain also connects to via a load like a coil or whatever) and control it with a LED which is driven by your input pulse generator. You may wish to enclose the resistor into a light-tight box , togetger with the LED, to prevent false triggering from surrounding light sources.
I assume your resistor reduces its DC resistance when a normal light illuminates it. If yes, then the connection should be as I wrote above.

Some tests are needed what color LEDs control the most the resistor.

rgds, Gyula

EDIT, LUC, I forget to tell, you have to use a few kiloOhm normal resistor between the MOSFET gate and source to terminate the gate. Sorry for this, I am in a hurry but wanted to give a quick help. The resistor can be 3.3-4.7-5.6kOhm, not so critical. So the light sensitive resistor and this resistor make a voltage divider between the gate source and the upper member of this divider the light sens resistor will get reduced to some hundred Ohms due to illumination from a LED so a positive voltage of 9-12V or so can open the FET when the pulse arrives at the LED.
Tomorrow I will refer to other opto coupler circuits if you wish.

I meant n-channel MOSFETs for the above positive polarity. For p-channels, use a negative 9-12V instead, with respect to the source electrode.

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

just completed winding my first Toroid coil to start testing the Orbo concept.

I wound my coil in a special way and it seems to be giving some promising results.

Have a look at my GOBO test 3 video which is truly my first Toroid test. Let me know what you think.

Link to video: YouTube - GOBO Magnet Motor test 3

Luc