Dielectric emf recycler

[Inquorate]

thanks for posting this idea. it really got me thinking.
I'm sorry my first post here is a negative one but this will never give you excess energy. When you charge a capacitor from an another capacitor trough a load you will dissipate only partly the energy thats in the original capacitor. the rest of its gets stored in the cap you charged and some stays in the original cap. the voltages even out.
if you then put the 2 parralel charged caps in series then yes the voltage doubles but the equivalent capacitance will only be 25% of what it was when the caps where in parralel.
the energy in a cap : W=1/2*C*U^2
u doubles so u^2 makes the result 4x bigger
but C is is divided by 4 so the result is 4 x smaller
so there's no net change in the total stored energy.
its probably more efficient to discharge it all from the original cap.

b0skabouter to the forum!

experiments so far would agree with your statements, but luckily that's not the whole picture

What we want is like this LC resonant circuit;

YouTube - Energy Propagation

But the drawback is with an LC circuit, you can't easily add another L to harvest spikes off.

But we'll be using a CLC resonant circuit.

I'm going to take some painkillers and get this test done tomorrow, hell or high water. We'll then know how much promise the circuit has. The switching series parallel caps and harvesting voltage spikes will be a real complicated circuit..

Anyhow, watch this space.

[nilrehob]

Hi all,

Let me repeat an idea i had back in the TS-thread:
Instead of moving all charge from two caps in series to two caps in parallel and loose energy by a factor 4 we should find a way to do the opposite:
Move all charge from two caps in parallel to two caps in series and gain energy by a factor 4.
As a voltage-lift i was thinking of using the spikes from a coil.
But conservation of charge will probably be beaten by conservation of energy?

/Hob

[Inquorate]

@ hob - interesting idea, I must have missed it in the ts thread.

I've wondered at the same thing myself; how to get voltage to run uphill. It would be like dropping a ball and having it's potential energy increase along with it's kinetic energy.


Impossible? No, just dig a hole in the ground under the ball.

I wondered if somehow an Electret capacitor could do that. Lately I have been wondering if a static charge and RF EM radiation could do the same.

My kingdom for want of a nail...

experiments along those lines are in my future

Do you have any thoughts on how to achieve what you are proposing? I'll give it more thought - probably all night while I should be sleeping

Thanks for your comment

[nilrehob]

This is all TS in reverse, but the switching can be reduced to diodes only, here is a circuit for 4 caps:

They discharge in parallel and charge in series.

If there is a way to use the conservation of charge in this way, maybe the same can be done to coils, conservation of mag-flux?

The same circuit can be done to coils, but the diodes has to be arranged in another way, and you would like to charge the coils in parallel and discharge them in series.

/Hob

[nilrehob]

Here is another one:
If you have two caps in series, but only one of them contains a charge, when you take the uncharged cap out of the system you gain energy.
I think its like arriving at Maxwell's deamon show, just after his trick is done, just to hear him say: Ta-daaah!

/Hob

[nilrehob]

If there is such a thing as conservation of mag-flux,
then there is also the adding of coils in series on the same core to take in consideration,
since simple summation of inductance then don't work (you usually get more inductance).

I haven't been able to make successful experiments on most of this yet,
but maybe it can inspire others.

But spiking two caps in series wins over spiking them is parallel,
i have tried that many times, it works,
as caps in series have better Q than caps in parallel,
no magic tricks up the sleeve on this one.
Always spike caps in series, discharge them in parallel.
YouTube - Charge two capacitors

/Hob

[rave154]

thanks hob,

id watched that video quite some time ago, forgot about it ( you know how it goes )..

if say the initial intention was to try and charge up say.... a 50uF cap......would you capture more of the spike ( and therefore more energy ) by using 5 x 10uF caps in series......or even.... 10 x 5uF in series?

[nilrehob]

thanks hob,

id watched that video quite some time ago, forgot about it ( you know how it goes )..

if say the initial intention was to try and charge up say.... a 50uF cap......would you capture more of the spike ( and therefore more energy ) by using 5 x 10uF caps in series......or even.... 10 x 5uF in series?

Like you say, it's some time ago.
All i can say is that if you have 2 equal caps,
charge them i parallel and get say 10V on each,
you will get more than 20V if you instead charge them in series,
that is more than 10V on each.

/Hob

[nilrehob]

This is because when you have them in parallel you get lower Q-value than if you have them in series (which gives you higher Q-value).
When a coil spikes a cap (or caps), its just a LC-oscillator that gets its oscillation interrupted by a diode, so look for formulas om LC-circuits that include the Q and you'll see it.
I guess this is all about minimizing losses?

/Hob

[Inquorate]

Inductor series parallel

@hob - re charging inductors in parallel and discharging in series...

What if we charged one inductor with current, inducing a magnetic field while potentialising it with voltage.

We fight bemf here as the magnetic field resists the current.

What if we had another inductor in the same magnetic field? We'd pay for eddy currents in the wire, but we stop current flow for the moment, and the inductor is just potentialised.

Now if we stop current and voltage potential to the first inductor, the collapsing magnetic field induces voltage potential briefly.

(the opposite to a capacitor which stores energy as voltage potential but when shorted causes brief current)

However, this voltage spike should occur with both coils, in parallel;

Something for nothing - Vox

I'll try do experiments, so far it's only theory.

[nilrehob]

You might be interested in a circuit I draw some time ago:

No idea if it works, but I dont think it will short-circuit

EDIT: BTW, i like it that you have no diodes when charging the coil!

/Hob

[nilrehob]

You can skip two diodes in my circuit.
Try this in http://www.falstad.com/circuit/ :

$ 1 5.0E-6 10.20027730826997 50 5.0 50
v 176 272 176 208 0 0 40.0 5.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
c 384 208 384 256 0 1.0E-5 9.999999975247916E-4
c 432 208 432 256 0 1.0E-5 9.999999975256384E-4
l 240 208 240 256 0 1.0 2.1654106864015232E-16
l 288 208 288 256 0 1.0 2.165410685293207E-16
d 240 256 288 208 1 0.805904783
d 384 208 432 256 1 0.805904783
d 288 160 288 208 1 0.805904783
s 176 160 240 160 0 1 true
s 432 160 496 160 0 1 true
r 496 208 496 256 0 100.0
d 384 160 384 208 1 0.805904783
d 432 256 432 304 1 0.805904783
w 384 160 432 160 0
w 432 208 432 160 0
w 384 256 384 304 0
w 384 304 432 304 0
w 432 304 496 304 0
w 496 208 496 160 0
w 496 304 496 256 0
d 336 304 384 304 1 0.805904783
w 288 304 336 304 0
w 240 208 240 176 0
w 176 304 240 304 0
d 240 256 240 304 1 0.805904783
w 176 208 176 160 0
w 176 304 176 272 0
w 288 160 240 160 0
w 240 176 240 160 0
w 240 304 288 304 0
w 288 256 288 304 0
w 288 160 384 160 0

EDIT: one wire was missing (be sure to copy the last newline)

/Hob

[Inquorate]

EDIT: BTW, i like it that you have no diodes when charging the coil!

/Hob[/QUOTE]

They eat potential

That's why I got myself some Germanium diodes off ebay; less voltage drop

[nilrehob]

I guess its time to reread the pages about the TEP:
JLN Labs - TEP Project - TEP V.60 SH idea
Like stated before in this thread, it's some time ago since i looked into this.
Hopefully ive learned some since.

In some circuits of the TEP i recognize the changing of parameters
but also the shorting of a coil (and then some).

/Hob

[Inquorate]

Setback

My 494 based square wave generator died, which sucks.

I'm trying to pass energy from one cap to another thru an inductor.. Just loading the inductor, and collecting the spike in a third cap. I was getting negative 90v spikes after loading a 1mH coil with 9v.

Anyway, getting there.

I need to buy a couple of parts before I can continue. Negative energy / scalar etc really hates integrated circuits.. I even had an optoisolator.

Grumble grumble grumble.

Might have to make a high inductance coil and use a mechanical switch; I was getting positive spikes of 15v when the switch turned on as well as the negative spikes when it turned off; maybe the combination is what killed the ic.

here's what the waveform looked like; I had to use the zoom part of my 50mhz Oscilloscope to see the positive spike;

YouTube - pos and neg spikes

Ignore my ramblings, I've gotten rusty but worked out the kinks not long after I made the video. For a while anyway