Rodin Coil Tests and Replications

[rave154]

its very tedious, especially the first wrap of the 5... once thats in place....not so bad.

im going to send a 3D model of a small segment of the toroid with the groooves etc... to print..should only cost maybe £5-£10...just to check that theres enough detail for the grooves to be as small as i want them ( 0.6mm diameter half cut into the skin of the toroid )

[Cloxxki]

Brainfart, but might be worth something to someone.

Start out with a flexible thick walled or massive tube (a type of dense foam for instance), say 1.5-2" in diameter.
Cut in grooves at fixed spacing over the length of the surface.

All it then takes, would be to twist and connect the end to form a toroid, where a wire could follow the grooves, wind after wind, and only find its own tail after completing a full cover. That make any sense at all?
The connection method would be the hard part. A couple bottle caps and super glue in the ends might already do the trick, if they're not too firmly fixed inside.

Might such a natural twist result in Powell style mapping?

[rave154]

Cloxxi,

good thinking...and....yes id thought of that..or something similiar....but as ever with these things.....its not so much the solution thats hard to find....its finding the right material.... as an example.....look where weve all had to go to....to get a simple plastic toroid.....fisher price toys....inner tubes....plaster cast molds etc..

with an "ideal" material.....you could simply take a tube of it...draw straight parallel lines down its length....give the required twist.then join its ends....job done

[geminitric]

forms and coils

with an "ideal" material.....you could simply take a tube of it...draw straight parallel lines down its length....give the required twist.then join its ends....job done

If only aluminum ducting could 'twist' easily! Also, I have emailed an acrylic/lexan supplier to get a quote on some tubes bent into toroid-form and sealed, and with nozzles/valves attached so I can vacuum and/or fill with ... stuff.

I'm trying to find a local supplier of wire with big enough spools of small enough gauge... it seems all the big-box stores have 18AWG and larger. Grr.


See this length of aluminum ducting, I'm going to wrap in a style similar to the randy powell "form-hugging" wrap. I would like to fill it with iron oxide first, but alas again my lack of local suppliers is frustrating. I'll leave that for next time. Look at the 'gravity waves found' thread to see why I chose iron oxide.

[geminitric]

using a FWBR, and the cap bank across it, I have in parallel with the caps ... the power supply battery. The voltage is remaining constant however I've only just left it running to see where it ends up, and I believe I don't have it at the sweet spot and so it must eventually lower in voltage.

Yes the voltage did drop, very slowly, then a cat jumped on the bench and disturbed the coils. Sigh. Right now I'm using it to recharge a "1000Ah" battery for my mother-in-law; she left the lights on in the chip truck and drained the batt down to 10.3v. It's my mission to have 'er charged up today.

*edit* sorry - it's not a 1000Ah, it's just a big heavy 12v motormaster nautilus "10-2495-6" with 1000 amp 'marine crank' and 115 min 'reserve power'. I can't find the Ah rating.

[rave154]

charging up the chip-truck battery.....a perfectly Fine use for a Rodin coil, even Marko himself would be proud ( though i doubt he eats chips )

re- the aluminium tubing, as to joining the two ends together, perhaps a small length of circular polysytrene ( the diameter the same as the internal D of the tubing )... could be wedged into the one end of the tubing, then the other end of the tubing wedged onto the styrene, to make the join ( the styrene from some old packaging ?)

Gem, i just had another thought regarding that tubing,

since it already has a spiral going around it, if you choose the length correctly you could use the built in spiral for part of your markings to save on marking up time.. for example.... as per 1 complete spiral of the tubing around the thickness of the donut....have 36 of these making up the circumference...then.each spiral will be 10-degrees away from the next

[geminitric]

charging up the chip-truck battery.....a perfectly Fine use for a Rodin coil, even Marko himself would be proud ( though i doubt he eats chips )

re- the aluminium tubing, as to joining the two ends together, perhaps a small length of circular polysytrene ( the diameter the same as the internal D of the tubing )... could be wedged into the one end of the tubing, then the other end of the tubing wedged onto the styrene, to make the join ( the styrene from some old packaging ?)

Gem, i just had another thought regarding that tubing,

since it already has a spiral going around it, if you choose the length correctly you could use the built in spiral for part of your markings to save on marking up time.. for example.... as per 1 complete spiral of the tubing around the thickness of the donut....have 36 of these making up the circumference...then.each spiral will be 10-degrees away from the next

to chip-trucks!

Great idea with the polystyrene - have lots of styrofoam around from packaging! Now, the 'rings' around that tube unfortunately aren't a spiral, but you're right; I think I can use them in my measurements and to assist wire positioning. hopefully . Else they might be in the way... LoL.

Any suggestions (or requests) for wire gauge to be used? I'm short of supplies, so will either use my existing blue & white 24awg, or will shell out to order a large spool of something online.

[IndianaBoys]

If only aluminum ducting could 'twist' easily! Also, I have emailed an acrylic/lexan supplier to get a quote on some tubes bent into toroid-form and sealed, and with nozzles/valves attached so I can vacuum and/or fill with ... stuff.

geminitric,

You do good work!
You could do it with 3D printing.
Rave154 is looking into.....
The support material can be water soluble, so doing a hollow shape should be possible.
Not sure how it would handle vacuum/inert gases.
Maybe sealed with a coating. New choices at Fortus.com
You could even design in the thread detail for your valve/plug.

FDM Rapid Prototyping - Stratasys - Fortus 3D Production Systems, Dimension Printing
FORTUS 3D production Systems by Stratasys - Prototypes, Rapid Prototyping & Manufacturing Machines, FDM Technology

This seems a good, fast flexible way to prototype a shape and when one is found that produces look at other means to duplicate.

IndianaBoys
YouTube - Life in the Superlattice Order

[rave154]

Gem,

as to the wire, i used 24SWG...its thick enough to not be thin...if you see what i mean...but thin enough so as to be easily shaped around the toroid...you could possibly get away with 22SWG as well perhaps...though i would want a larger toroid to wind the 22SWG around than the one im using which is about 155mm OD & 30mm thickness.

indiana,

i beleive in this case with the 3D printing..the toroid would end up full of the so called "support material" they use...but there would be not need to remove this, far from it....it would help make it a more sturdy toroid.unless of course you wanted to fill it with magnetite etc etc

btw, from the places ive looked at so far....prices are about £1.50 - £2.00 per cm^3 of ABS, so making the toroid hollow is a must to keep price down.

another thought occured to me..and that was to model in 3D a small section of the toroid, with marking grooves etc....say a 20 degree slice..have this printed... make a mold of it....then cast my own 20 degree slices from the mold..and they would have the grooves built in....i could rip out as many toroids as i wanted then,.,..and it would only cost perhaps... maybe £10 - £15 for the 1 20 degree slice to be 3D printed...seems quite workable.

anyways..just finished the 7th of 12 windings...treating my self to food and a movie & a beer to recuperate lol

Gem....you have all of this coming to you.....i do not envy you !!!!

[geminitric]

I've heard of the 3D printing before and am now looking at programs for modelling it. When it comes to materials and forms I want to try... many possibilities it's hard to narrow down the focus. Just like winding styles... I envy the starship-style experimenters! They've all had good results with a much easier wind.

That big tube is going to be such a commitment, I'm trying to decide what all I should do with it. The pic of it has it wrapped around a 9-inch OD green styrofoam toroid. Seeing it that way makes me think "I could wrap that green toroid first, and then wrap the larger one AROUND it just as you see in the pic". But that would throw off the shape of the larger one. And would I want to wrap it 'normal-coil' style aka like a spring, or a rodin variation? Ach!

Maybe normal-coil, with 18 gauge. Maybe I'll wrap them both separately, form-fitting style, and then shove the small one in the center afterwards and see what happens.

so... suggestions or requests?

[geminitric]

as to the wire, i used 24SWG...its thick enough to not be thin...if you see what i mean...

Totally! I'm thinking the same - hope I have enough left on my one spool.

another thought occured to me..and that was to model in 3D a small section of the toroid, with marking grooves etc....say a 20 degree slice..have this printed... make a mold of it....then cast my own 20 degree slices from the mold..and they would have the grooves built in....i could rip out as many toroids as i wanted then,.,..and it would only cost perhaps... maybe £10 - £15 for the 1 20 degree slice to be 3D printed...seems quite workable.

Good idea!!

anyways..just finished the 7th of 12 windings...treating my self to food and a movie & a beer to recuperate lol

Gem....you have all of this coming to you.....i do not envy you !!!!

hehe yeah. Last time for me it was the entire Planet of the Apes movies (original series)... this time, hmmm. Dunno yet!

[rave154]

Gem,

if youre going to do a randy powell style using the aluminium tubing..then those concentric rings could still come in handy even though there not sprials.if you can choose 36 rings around the circumference ( that would be for a 36-18 coil)

im using a program recomended by indiandaboys..called google sketchup..its excellent.and very easy to learn....the hard part..is not jumping in and trying to draw everything yourself.but rather....figuring out how to draw a primitive ...and then using the software to enumerate that shape....to save you the time & trouble of doing it by hand......i think i have found that way.

if you want to put the green toroid in the middle of the aluminium tube toroid after there both wound...then bare in mind to allow for thickness of wire.....allow some extra diameter on the alu toroid so that with the windings...the green toroid(plus its windings ) will still fit inside

[rave154]

yeah.i dunno what it wa sabout winding and having a movie playing ( preferably one youve seen before )....wind a little...look up....wind a little.....look up

google sketchup..

Google SketchUp

[rave154]

p.s today i had a look at copper tape, pretty good prices, a lot cheaper than i expected, would save a lot of time....since you could simply slice down the side of a correct length of tape..shape it around the toroid..and youve just done the equivelant of maybe 10 or 12 wraps

the price was about £4 or so for a 3 metre length... 20mm wide...0.1mm thick...i think they also come with adhesive backing too

[rave154]

almost there

hi all,

9 out of 12 windings completed...had to stop cos my eyelids are starting to stick together from the super glue fumes