Rodin Coil Tests and Replications

[rave154]

mk,

i did quickly fashion a small pancake coil only of about 1" in diameter about 3 weeks ago....didnt pick anything up.....a larger one may have done though

[mk1]

mk,

i did quickly fashion a small pancake coil only of about 1" in diameter about 3 weeks ago....didnt pick anything up.....a larger one may have done though

Thanks for the answer , i am surprised it did not work did you load test or only meter .

Because i got coil at 0 volt working great.

Thanks rave

Mark

[rave154]

mk, i have managed to find my small pancake coil, i will re-test using ..


coil ->> FWBR ->> cap->> Load

[rave154]

MK,

i redid my test with the pancake coil. the coi, is about 28mm diameter.with about 14 spirals around of 26 SWG wire.

its diameter is the same as the hole in the middle of the rodin so that it fits snuggly in there.right in the middle.on the same horizontal plane..however.what was interesting was that slightly tilting the pancake.by about perhaps 10 degrees or so.....produced the best output.
pancake was going to a fast FWBR..to a cap.with 100Ohm load across it... 12V to the rodin @ 2Khz @ 50% duty... gave .520V DC across the load, input current was 0.5 amps ( 6 watts total input )

playing with the position of the coil...up and down but keeping it horizontal... i reckon here would be space for 10 or so pancakes each picking up about 0.4 - 0.5 VDC across the load = 5V or so.


withe the circuit running and producing 0.4V on the load, and drawing 0.5 amps from input. i placed a silicon steel core, it is about 4 cm long. 1 cm x 1cm square section...i placed it vertically above the middle of the pancake virtually touching it... output rose to 0.88VDC..while input current dropped by about..5-7mA

got it up to 1.1129 V DC now , same small drop on input current

ok, i placed another similar silcon steel core...under the pancake, with the other c ore on top..forming a sort of verrtical axis with a horizontal wheel shape ( the pancake would be the wheel )....

current dropped a full 100mA to 400mA draw ! and voltage on load was 2.2 VDC

[rave154]

Hi,

based upon my encouraging results with the mini pancake coil...and partly based on gut instinct and intuition ( i have to base things on that cos im an electrical nit-wit lol ).....

thinking about the geometry of the pancake...what is it?.....its a spiral.

what does the rodin coil (alledgidly) produce?.......a vortex ( downward spiral )

think about how a normal coil is wound, onto a vertical core member..... we start at the top, we go round and round, towards the bottom until we reach the bottom..then.we continue winding round & round but in an upward direction til we reach the top....then back down..over and over...

is it possible, that 1 turn on a coil.."collects" some of whatever the rodin is putting out...and another turn below it will collect some more...... BUT..if we then start winding back up again....since were going in the opposite direction....these turns are going to collect opposite "polarity" ( im using poetic license with that word there ).....and its going to cancel out much of what were collecting with the downward windings?

to test this, i just wound, on a steel nail about 2 1/2 inches long, a coil...i start at the top, winding down.when i got to the bottom, instead of winding back up again.....i simply went back to the top in a straight line up the core...and started winding back down again.....4 times...using 26 SWG wire, the nail is about 4mm diameter... the coil overall is now.about almost 8mm diameter...

using the same circuity and settings as my last post, i can get 2.2VDC on the load and the same amp draw from supply (400mA )

yet when i use a "standard" ( up and down wound ) coil, with a core in it.....i only get 1.2VDC aprox.

could it be that all the "pickup" coil needs to be......is....wire....in a circle, to collect the "vortex" that the rodin generates? and if your going to have multiple "round & round" windings....then they must all go DOWN.......not up AND DOWN as this cancels out as much as is collected???

or do we need a coil which is a sort of.....multi-layered pancake coil?? with all the layers wound the same, either all inward spiral....or all outward spiral...but NOT inward on one layer.then outward on the next...which would cancel each other out as with the standard "up & down" coil

[rave154]

last test & post for tonight..

using the nail coil on its own in the middle of the rodin, gives me around 2.3VDC on the load

i placed a coil from a shaded pole motor in the centre of the rodin, the shaded pole coil is an air core....then i placed the nail coil into the middle of the shaded pole coil..the shaded pole coil is connected to nothing....

voltage on the load went up to 3.1VDC no change in amp draw from supply

if i short the shaded pole coil.....voltage on the load goes to virtually zero.
]
*encouraged & confused*

Ahimsa & goodnight

[Cloxxki]

Great thinking Rave.
How about this. As a kid I wound (knotted) key chain hangers from a glass marble or bouncing ball, with rope. Usually I got 3-4 winding over each axis XYZ, making for a square-ish shape. Soccer balls often have panels like that also.

If each axis could be wound by a single wire, to not cancel themselves out. The sphere could enclose the toroid, and pick it all up. SOmething will need to be done about the hole though...OR the sphere such wound would need to GO in there, fixed in place I suppose.
Another approach would be to devide a sphere in 6 faces. Uhuh. Spiraling in/out, many seperate wires. Yes, this approach would have losses, as with the above, if it at all worked.

Another idea I had was: the toroid's wires are on a surface, radiating a field from it, right? Inverse of that would be wires that are positioned like sunray are to the sun. If one-wire nergy transmission would be (made) applicable here, an inversed hedgehog style might be interesting.

Please excuse my ignorance.

[rave154]

hi all, continuing on from my last couple of posts...

i took a multiple coil ( transformer ) but with the closed loop ferrite removed, so that it was basically a multi-filar coil..with a single shaft ferrite core..

it produced 5.8VDC on the load with around 400mA drawn.

since i have an identical one also, i decided to strip it apart ( its from an old PC power supply btw ) and take a look how it was made.

on the outside was a winding of around 24 or 26 SWG wire, about 14 turns, starting at the top and finishing at the bottom ( no up & down & up & down ).

BUT.. underneath was a strip of stiff copper foil, around 0.25mm thick, 1cm wide and long enough to go once around the coil.

my 5.8VDC on the load.....was produced when one of my leads(going to my FWBR) was connected to one end of the 14 turn coil..and the other lead...was connected to the copper strip !

using the 14 turn coil on its own from end to end produces only 4.58VDC.

underneath all of that was two windings of 3 wires each, going around again from top to botom ( no ups & downs )..and again under this winding was another copper foil strip connected to one of the terminals.

[rave154]

Hi all,

i decied to make a video ( a rare event for me ), because this effect...where....with my pickup coil alone, in the centre of the rodin.....gives me a certain voltage on my load.....for a given amp draw........but when i place an unconnected (shaded pole ) coil "Around" the pickup coil....both of them in the centre of the rodin....i get an increased voltage on the load.....and a decreased amp draw...



YouTube - curious2.wmv

sorry its a bit dark, but you can see the readings :-)

[stubbs]

That is odd... This works as batteries do. Two batteries in series will double the voltage.
But Ri increases causing the amperage drop. I understand that in your case Ri is different,
one being greater than the other. Good find rave.

Do the two cores have the same effect in parallel?
i.e. Amperage increase /voltage remains or not.

[rave154]

stubbs, the shaded pole coil (the one that is around my nail coil )....isnt connected to ANYTHING....its ends arent connected to anything

therefore the nail coil is the only thing connected to the FWBR/CAP/LOAD

i will try them connected though, both in series and in paralell


before i do, i tried another coil in place of the shaded pole one, again with the nail coil sitting inside it.both of them in the middle of the ROdin......the voltage on the load didnt change

the only difference between the two coils.is that the shaded pole coil...is very thin wire..perhaps 30-32SWG..with quite a lot of turns.where as the other coil is 26SWG with only about 240 turns.

[rave154]

stubbs,

just tried the nail coil,,1) alone 2) with the shaded coil around it but unconneceted, 3) in series, 4) in paralell


--------- volts on load ---- amp drawn from supply

1) ------ 1.94 ------------ 4.24

2) ------ 2.69 ------------- 418

3) ------ 0.07 ------------- 470

4) ------ 0.03 ------------- 475

[stubbs]

Thinking out loud

"This is probably due to the higher resistace & or inductivity of the shaded pole,
working as a wireless transformer would. meaning the shaded pole would be the
primary, translating (what ever is happening) in the rodin core, to the secondary
(your nail wound core.) Just my thoughts

rave, it looks like you may be on to something. You are getting over a watt of
work out of it. How much are you putting into the circuit?

[marxist]

noteworthy effect

Hi rave,

thanks for making the video. Very interesting.

When the shaded pole coil is not in place, you seem to get a more or less normal transformer effect. That is: the primary (=Rodin coil) is drawing amps, when a load is connected to the secondary (=nail coil).

This is in agreement with normal transformer theory, which says, that the secondary builds up its own magnetic field, which opposes the primary's field.
And that due to this opposition the amp draw of the primary increases.

Now when the shaded pole coil is in place, obviously the primary does not "feel the opposition". I conclude this from the fact that the amp draw does not go up.

I think the copper windings of the shaded pole coil somehow distort the field of the nail coil, so that it does not act back on the primary - at least not in the normal opposing way/direction.

This is my home baked analysis for the moment.

[rave154]

Stubbs & Marxist,

thanks for the thougts & ides,

the input on test 2) was 418mA @ 12.5V = 5.225 W, however this was at a frequency of around 2KHz @ 50% duty.....it remains to be seen if other freq's and/or duty enhance or detract from this "effect"