Very interesting developments...

[Slovenia]

Lamare,

Thanks so much for the NESARA FORUM links. Very good stuff indeed.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[lamare]

Lamare,

Thanks so much for the NESARA FORUM links. Very good stuff indeed.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Just found that one when googling for Fulford

You may like my links on del.ico.us too:
lamare's Bookmarks on Delicious

[Ted Ewert]

Pushing the idea that the victims somehow DESERVED what happened to them, is what is actually behind much of this, imo.

BS. You're way off base here. You're obviously not reading what is being said but instead jumping to your own myopic conclusions.
And who are you calling a paid shill?? Just because someone doesn't buy your version of history they're suddenly a paid dis-info agent?? Give me a break!
Maybe you need to step down off your lofty moral pedestal for a few minutes and take a look around. We all have ancestors that have been slaughtered and persecuted, you're nothing special there. My advice is to take a long hard look at why your holocaust is any different than the hundreds of other holocausts throughout history. Then you'll realize that it isn't any different. It's only hyped because it serves a purpose (which has nothing to do with the actual victims).
Does this make me a paid shill now? How much did I get?


Ted

[jibbguy]

Ted, you might consider that everything is not about "you". Such posts are meant for the forum to read. I really am not interested in personal arguments, my aim is a lot higher. I frankly have little interest in changing your mind about anything; despite what i think about your opinions regarding this subject.

...So i am up on my moral high horse because i am saying what again..?

> Reminding people of what the nazis did while utterly crushing the bogus claims of worthless linked articles?

> Reminding people of what the US is guilty of as well?

> Because i am stating easily verified facts about crimes that you are tired of hearing about... because they expose your "belief" of the Holocaust being "overrated" to be without any backing, proof, or merit what so ever?

> Because i am repeating in every post that this subject is being now used to attack the Truth movements by professional psy-ops who use it to turn off thinking individuals who are studying these subjects for the first time by implying PERCEPTED overtones of possible racism and hate hiding behind them?

... and that in actuality this subject of the Holocaust has nothing AT ALL to do with 9/11 or Free Energy, despite the obvious and consistent attempts to link them?

And regarding that last, i also clearly stated that there are people who believe that stuff "honestly", and that i was only accusing them of bad judgment (... and i will now add; not bothering to study the subject properly, and just listening to a bunch of very questionable sites with bogus re-written history on them that are probably meant to push hidden agendas).

You earlier complained about hearing about the subject of the Holocaust, saying: .."Getting it rammed down our throats all the time". This must mean that it personally bothers you to hear about such things, that you object to hearing about the crimes of the nazis. Well, you'll get no sympathy from me on that.

The nazis VERY REAL victims NUMBERING IN THE MILLIONS gave up their homes, their wealth, their families and loved ones, their futures, their lives.... so a bunch of lying sociopaths could get their way. All you have to endure, in the name of us keeping the memory alive and debunking idiotic theories that cause a great deal of harm, and to help insure it never happens again... is reading a few forum posts on it (and you don't even have to do that, really lol).

But what you really should do, is study it and see just how horrible it really was: Then you may realize that YOU were the one being manipulated by that bogus and unsubstantiated dis-information... whether the nazis were or not.

But what is really behind this i think, is that people don't like having their beliefs challenged. Well, you should know that when this "belief" has absolutely nothing to back it, that will happen on a public forum.

Especially on such a subject as this that angers many people who know the truth of what happened and who are sickened by attempts to hide it behind ridiculous theories that are DESIGNED to hurt all we work for.

[ANTIQUER]

John Chapter 3

Hi Lamare;

Interesting reply. Here is John 3:1-22 from the Amplified Bible which might make it clearer for you;

[QUOTE]
John 3:1-22 AMP

1NOW THERE was a certain man among the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler (a leader, an authority) among the Jews,

2Who came to Jesus at night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know and are certain that You have come from God [as] a Teacher; for no one can do these signs (these wonderworks, these miracles--and produce the proofs) that You do unless God is with him.

3Jesus answered him, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter his mother's womb again and be born?

5Jesus answered, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [[a]even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God.

6What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above).

8The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

9Nicodemus answered by asking, How can all this be possible?

10Jesus replied, Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet do not know nor understand these things? [Are they strange to you?]

11I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, We speak only of what we know [we know absolutely what we are talking about]; we have actually seen what we are testifying to [we were eyewitnesses of it]. And still you do not receive our testimony [you reject and refuse our evidence--that of Myself and of all those who are born of the Spirit].

12If I have told you of things that happen right here on the earth and yet none of you believes Me, how can you believe (trust Me, adhere to Me, rely on Me) if I tell you of heavenly things?

13And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven--the Son of Man [Himself], [b]Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.

14And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert [on a pole], so must [so it is necessary that] the Son of Man be lifted up [on the cross],

15In order that everyone who believes in Him [who cleaves to Him, trusts Him, and relies on Him] may [c]not perish, but have eternal life and [actually] live forever!

16For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([d]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

17For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.

18He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation--he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ's name.]

19The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.

20For every wrongdoer hates (loathes, detests) the Light, and will not come out into the Light but shrinks from it, lest his works (his deeds, his activities, his conduct) be exposed and reproved.

21But he who practices truth [who does what is right] comes out into the Light; so that his works may be plainly shown to be what they are--wrought with God [divinely prompted, done with God's help, in dependence upon Him].

22After this, Jesus and His disciples went into the land (the countryside) of Judea, where He remained with them, and baptized.
]

If you read vs. 11-13 as one long sentence as they were originally spoken it becomes clear. Jesus is saying we (Myself and the apostles and disciples traveling with me {see vs. 22}) have told you what we have seen here on earth and you don't believe us. If you don't believe me about these things that occurred here on earth, how can you believe me when I tell you of heavenly things? No one has gone up to heaven and come back to tell you of heavenly things, but I live there and have seen these things and have come down to tell you of them. The rest of the chapter makes it clear there are 2 types of people in the world, the saved (born again) and the un-saved (natural or un-regenerated). The saved will live forever with Jesus, the un-saved will be destroyed in the end along with Satan and his followers.(Rev.10:10-15) Which group do you want to be in?
John 3:1-36 :: Amplified Bible Online Bible Search

The example he gave of Moses and the serpent of brass he lifted up on the rod also makes it clear. Look on the serpent as a sign of repentance and live; don't look and you will die. Look at Jesus suffering for you on the cross, repent and live. Don't accept him and die.
Numbers 21:5-9.

So, it appears that we have to make contact with "the sprit" in order to be "born again"...

You have the order reversed. When you are born again the spirit comes to dwell in you. See I Cor. 6:19-20, Acts 10:44-45, Romans 8:1-11.

One of the things Veith said is that Jesus would come with all of his angels and that the people would meet him "in the air". And then, there is the story of the new Jerusalem, which would come down from heaven.

Yes, Jesus comes back twice. The first time he returns to take the believers out of the world to live with him.He does not set foot on the earth at this time. See I Thess. 4:16-18. The Anti-christ is about to come to power and the Tribulation period is coming. Jesus does not leave his people here to suffer through that.The saved and the un-saved are never judged "in the same pot".

The second time is when he comes to judge the earth. See Rev. 19:11-16.

The new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven after all judgment is finished and the Devil and his followers are destroyed. (Rev. 21:1-27)Only The Holy Trinity, the angels, and the saved dwell there. (Rev. 21:22-24.)

It is a city not a spaceship. John described it and it is a city with walls, gates, streets, foundations etc. but no ceiling; not enclosed like a spaceship. God doesn't need spaceships or fleets of them or help from anyone. He simply speaks or thinks and it happens as in the creation.

So, what should we make of this, then?

I make of this a hoax written by someone on Earth. Here's why; "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." (II Cor. 13-15) and "...but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:7-8.

The message of Jesus is repent, confess your sins and believe in me as your savior and you will live forever, nothing about spaceships or aliens to help him. He is coming back himself , not sending anyone in a spaceship.

I would again humbly suggest you obtain a Scofield Reference Edition of the King James Bible and an Amplified Bible if you wish to study the Bible. The Scofield notes at the bottom of many pages are extremely valuable in understanding scripture and I have not found anywhere on the web where you can read them, only the references to other scriptures in the margin.

Al

[Ted Ewert]

You sound like a broken record.
I lost relatives in the war too, but you don't hear me whining about it. Get over it.
So what if I think the holocaust is a bunch of hype. Are you afraid I'm going to start a campaign to rebuild the camps? What are you so worried about???
Maybe without your holocaust you won't be special anymore. Is that it? You couldn't claim the phony moral high ground anymore. You couldn't scream anti-Semite when someone dares to disagree or criticize you. You wouldn't have that crutch to lean on, or the pity to hide behind either. You couldn't be the poor, persecuted victim anymore. Is this what's eating you?
Who would want to live like that anyway?

Ted

[dave_cahoon]

Find and read the Magna Carta
Its like 12th century. America, Clearly did not follow the advice..

And what Ted Said
Dave

[Slovenia]

Ted,

You are posting some highly inflammatory stuff here. It is very disturbing indeed.

Slovenia

[lamare]

The message of Jesus is repent, confess your sins and believe in me as your savior and you will live forever, nothing about spaceships or aliens to help him. He is coming back himself , not sending anyone in a spaceship.

I would again humbly suggest you obtain a Scofield Reference Edition of the King James Bible and an Amplified Bible if you wish to study the Bible. The Scofield notes at the bottom of many pages are extremely valuable in understanding scripture and I have not found anywhere on the web where you can read them, only the references to other scriptures in the margin.

Al

Hi Al,

Thanks for your reply. I tend to look at the bible with an open mind, because first of all that's what led me to the bible in the first place, and secondly because we must realize that it is an ancient script and has been worded by ancient humans from their point of view. In other words: contrary to what Veith is preaching, you cannot take every word literaly. You have to follow your hart and your own judgment in order to try and figure out what is being said and also match it with other data. (Some of Veith lectures are posted here, btw.: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...time-line.html - these made me believe in Jesus).

Here's a hole bunch of bible quotes about the false prophet:
The Bible on False Prophets

Num 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

How is a dream different from "channeling", which is basically "conscious dreaming"?

The Motivation of the False Prophet Is Money:

Micah 3:9 [NIV] Hear this, you leaders of the house of Jacob, you rulers of the house of Israel, who despise justice and distort all that is right;
Micah 3:10 [NIV] who build Zion with bloodshed, and Jerusalem with wickedness.
Micah 3:11 [NIV] Her leaders judge for a bribe, her priests teach for a price, and her prophets tell fortunes for money. Yet they lean upon the LORD and say, "Is not the LORD among us? No disaster will come upon us."
Micah 3:12 [NIV] Therefore because of you, Zion will be plowed like a field, Jerusalem will become a heap of rubble, the temple hill a mound overgrown with thickets.

Very revealing: The Vatican Billions - Two Thousand Years of Wealth Accumulation from Caesar to the Space Age

And the old protestants knew exactly which kingdoms / political entities were represented by Daniels beasts, as we can see on the cityhall in Nurnberg:



Yes, that's Alexander the great on the left (Greek Empire) and good old Julius on the right (Roman Empire). Remember the one that was to seemingly get a mortal wound, but would rise again, AKA "the Vatican", which was ended as a political entity by Napoleon -- who crowned himself, remember --, while Mussuloni eventually restored the Vatican as a sovereign state again.

So, there you have your false prophet, AKA "the antichrist".

That brings me to the sabbath question, because there you have the "mark of the beast":
Catholic Church Changed Sabbath to Sunday Statements

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act...And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.” H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons.

That brings me to the question "how should the law be read?". I think there are two possibilities:
1. We are under the 10 commandments, because God wants to rule us.
2. The 10 commandments are a very clever way to show us who the antichrist is.

I believe the second option is the case:
Mk 12 - Biblija.net - Nederlands Bijbelgenootschap

Mark 12

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Also very interesting are these verses:

25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. 26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

All right. So, we are to become "as the angels which are in heaven" and he shall return "with all of his angels":
What Will Occur At Christ's Return

Matt 25:31-33
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. (KJV)

So, how different are we from "angels which are in heaven" then?

I beleive the most important difference is that we have to learn two things and beleive them with all our hart:

1. The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength.

2. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

If we learn how to to that, then we will be like brothers and sisters with the "angels which are in heaven" who will be with him when he returns.

Now the angels are obviously beings and since we are ver much like them if only we would learn the lessons Jesus wanted us to learn, my conclusion is that we are not alone in the universe and that Jesus is about to return, with his angels, which are nothing other then our space brothers and sisters. And since they dwell in space, in heaven, they are indeed extra-terrestrials or aliens, IMHO.

So maybe there's "nothing about spaceships or aliens to help him" in the bible, but there is a whole lot of stuff about angels, which are to accompany the Lord Jesus when he returns. How do you think these are going to get here, if they are basically our smarter brothers and sisters, who already learned the lessons we should have gotten by now?

You may want to listen to this and decide for yourself wether or not there is light in these:
http://www.phoenixmaterials.org/mp3/The_Age_of_KALI.MP3

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Edit: Turns out you can also read this here:
CREATOR GOD ATON SPEAKS OF THIS AGE OF KALI (CHAOS) AND OF TH E FOUR VIRTUES >> Four Winds 10 - fourwinds10.com
and in this book, which I just found: http://fourwinds10.com/journals/pdf/J011.pdf

And he spoke unto the people who would listen unto the words of truth but few listened nor heeded his speech.

"Take heed that no one leads you astray. Many will come in my name, saying 'I am he', and will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed; for these must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famine and earthquakes and pestilences in various places; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.

"But when you see the desolating sacrilege set up where it ought not to be, then...flee to the mountains...for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written, alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! For great distress shall be upon the earth...there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will be. And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no living thing would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened...For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect...do not believe them. For as the lightening comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

"And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven and upon the earth distress of nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world; for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then they will see the sign of the Son of Man in heaven and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

"Now when these things begin to take place look up and raise your heads because your redemption is drawing near...when you see these things taking place, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation which sees these signs will not pass away till all has taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away but my words shall not pass away.

"But take heed to yourselves lest your hearts be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day comes upon you suddenly like a snare; for it will come upon all who dwell upon the face of the whole earth. But watch at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that will take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.

"As were in the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away; so will be the coming of the Son of Man...Watch, therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."

[lamare]

Looks like this whole thread comes together in one single document:

http://www.phoenixmaterials.org/pdf/080723.pdf

[lamare]

Someone asked me in a PM to say something about the way some people expressed themselves in this thread.

However, I feel that all the reactions in this thread have their value, because what happened on this thread is that some light has been shed on an afwully difficult and emotional subject, from entirely different, and often opposing points of view.

Still, I feel each and anyone here has given his reactions out of a sincere desire to know and search for the truth. And that is awfully difficult, since it is not black and white:

Know the Truth

Truth can be like an onion, with many layers. We might dig down a little with research, and find some truth and think we have it all. Then we might dig deeper and find much more, which might even reverse the original conclusion. And then we can dig deeper. There can be a tendency to think we know all of the truth when we have only scratched the surface, so be ready to dig deeper.

Just when you think you found the answer to whatever you were searching for, you find some deeper truth.

As for the controversial topic at hand, I found the first sentences in the article I posted above striking:

"The information We of The HOSTS of Heaven bring you is THE MOST “CONTROVERSIAL” WISDOM MANKIND WILL EVER RECEIVE." THIS IS THE KNOWLEDGE AND THE TRUTH THAT WILL DETERMINE THY DIVINITY!

When I read this article, it really chilled me. How can someone who appears to me to be a sincere messenger of Jesus say such things, unless it is true? To me, this is a really shocking article, which fills me with pain and sorrow, but also with the hope that there will soon be an end to all the lies and all the suffering, because I know he will be back soon.

Let me therefore quote from the bible:

Revelation 1:

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Edit:

Note that the article specifically mentions the Pharisees ( Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ):

Outside of Jewish history and writings, the Pharisees have been made notable by references in the New Testament to conflicts between themselves and John the Baptist[15] and with Jesus. There are also several references in the New Testament to Paul of Tarsus being a Pharisee before he became a Christian [16]. Christian traditions have been a cause of widespread awareness of the Pharisees among the world's roughly two billion Christians.

An important binary in the New Testament is the opposition between law and love. Accordingly, the New Testament presents the Pharisees as obsessed with man-made rules (especially concerning purity) whereas Jesus is more concerned with God’s love; the Pharisees scorn sinners whereas Jesus seeks them out. Because of the New Testament's frequent depictions of Pharisees as self-righteous rule-followers (see also Woes of the Pharisees), the word "pharisee" (and its derivatives: "pharisaical", etc.) has come into semi-common usage in English to describe a hypocritical and arrogant person who places the letter of the law above its spirit. Jews today who subscribe to Pharisaic Judaism typically find this insulting and some consider the use of the word to be anti-Semitic.[17]

Note that this Paul of Tarsus is also mentioned in the article:

Ask THE “JEWISH RABBI AND ROMAN CITIZEN SAUL OF TARSUS! EVEN CHANGING HIS NAME TO “SAINT PAUL” COULD NOT DISTANCE HIM FROM THE DECEIT HE WILLFULLY COMMITED AGAINST HIS FELLOW MAN!

You can also find several references in the Bible to the Pharisees:
University of Virginia Library

Like Matthew, chapter 23:
University of Virginia Library

"1": Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

"2": Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

"3": All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

"4": For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

"5": But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

"6": And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

"7": And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

"8": But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Edit:

Another striking question in the article:

Where DID those Mayan Indians all suddenly go to?

Maya civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Maya is a Mesoamerican civilization, noted for the only known fully developed written language of the pre-Columbian Americas, as well as its art, architecture, and mathematical and astronomical systems. Initially established during the Pre-Classic period (c. 2000 BC to 250 AD), according to the Mesoamerican chronology, many Maya cities reached their highest state development during the Classic period (c. 250 AD to 900 AD), and continued throughout the Post-Classic period until the arrival of the Spanish. At its peak, it was one of the most densely populated and culturally dynamic societies in the world. [1]

Spanish conquest of Yucatán - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Particularly in the early stages, a prime motivating factor for the conquistadores was their interest in seizing great quantities of precious metals, such as gold and silver. Since the Maya lands were poor in these resources, they held comparatively little initial interest for the Spanish, who were attracted instead to central Mexico and Peru by promising reports of the greater rewards on offer there. However, with the prospects of new land grants and the acquisition of labour forces, it was not long until Spanish intentions turned to the Maya region, with the first concerted efforts to establish a presence commencing from the 1520s.

Edit:
Somehow, I feel this thread had to be just as it is.
For example, if ANTIQUER had not pointed my to my Bible, I would never have found all this.

So, I thank you all for your input and I thank the lord for his love and guidance.

John 8:32

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free

[aljhoa]

Someone asked me in a PM to say something about the way some people expressed themselves in this thread.

However, I feel that all the reactions in this thread have their value, because what happened on this thread is that some light has been shed on an afwully difficult and emotional subject, from entirely different, and often opposing points of view.

Still, I feel each and anyone here has given his reactions out of a sincere desire to know and search for the truth. And that is awfully difficult, since it is not black and white.

Edit:
Somehow, I feel this thread had to be just as it is.
For example, if ANTIQUER had not pointed my to my Bible, I would never have found all this.

So, I thank you all for your input and I thank the lord for his love and guidance.

John 8:32

Quote:
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free

"I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear, and my judgment is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of him who sent me." [ John 5:30 ]

Jesus said: ``My doctrine is not my own; it comes from him who sent me.'' [ John 7:16 ]

"Men of Israel, listen to me! Jesus the Nazorean was a man whom God sent to you with miracles, wonders, and signs as his credentials. These God worked through him in your midst, as you well know." [ Acts 2:22 ]

``...The man who hears my word and has faith in him who sent me possesses eternal life.'' [ John 5:24 ]

Jesus looked up to heaven and said, ``...Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and him whom you have sent, Jesus Christ.'' [ John 17:1-3 ]

God or Allah in Islam (Submission in English),Islam (Submission). Your best source for Islam on the Intenet. Happiness is submission to God - Allah, God, Islam, Muslims, Moslems, Arabic, Farsi, Urdu, Indonesia, Arabia, Mecca, USA-Prophet Muhammed's L

Quran teaches us in no uncertain terms that Abraham is the founder of Islam as it is practiced today. As such, what did Abraham contribute to our daily life as Muslims? Quran teaches us that ALL RELIGIOUS PRACTICES IN ISLAM, (Salat, Zakat, Fasting, & Hajj) came to us from Abraham, generation after generation. The hypocrites of the Muslims always ask, how can these practices come to us from Abraham and not from Muhammad.. They do not trust that God Almighty can preserve His own religious practices (rituals) to give to us pure and clear. In other words, all religious practices in Islam existed before Muhammad. Muhammad's sole mission was to deliver the Quran.

" You shall strive for the cause of GOD as you should strive for His cause. He
has chosen you and has placed no hardship on you in practicing your religion - the religion of
your father Abraham. He is the one who named you "Submitters" originally. Thus, the
messenger shall serve as a witness among you, and you shall serve as witnesses among the
people. Therefore, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and hold fast to GOD; He is your Lord, the best Lord and the best Supporter." 22:78


"Abraham was neither Jewish , nor Christian; he was a monotheist; a Muslim; he never was an idol-worshiper. The people most worthy of following Abraham are those who follow him and this prophet (Muhammad), and those who believed. God is the Lord of the believers." 3:67-68

Islam-Submission-Introduction,definition, discussion, debate, laws, justice, human rights, history, terrorism, Jihad, women, Jews, Jesus, Christianity-Quran, Koran, Qur'an, Quranic topics, Index, Browser, several translations, discussions, debates, A
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[Ted Ewert]

Ted,

You are posting some highly inflammatory stuff here. It is very disturbing indeed.

Slovenia

It's meant to be, but only to illustrate a point. Let me explain...
The holocaust phenomenon is a psy-ops program in itself. It is a classic victim scheme designed to give power to a few over the many.
The communist, homosexual, black and feminist movements all use this same framework in which to operate.
It works like this: First you convince a certain group of people that they are all the victims of a horrible miscarriage of justice. You tell them that their lives would be so much better if it weren’t for this injustice, and that all the pain and sorrow they have experienced is a result of this injustice. Then a very public movement is initiated where the plight of these poor people is exposed for the world to see… over and over and over again. The public is brainwashed into buying the message, and soon anyone who dares to question the message is branded as a racist, homophobe, Chauvinist. It’s only inflammatory if you don’t understand what is really going on.
The holocaust phenomenon is a psy-ops program in itself. It is a classic victim scheme designed to give power to a few over many.
The communist, homosexual, black and feminist movements all use this same framework in which to operate.
It works like this: First you convince a certain group of people that they are all the victims of a horrible miscarriage of justice. You tell them that their lives would be so much better if it weren’t for this injustice, and that all the pain and sorrow they have experienced is a result of this injustice. Then a very public movement is initiated where the plight of these poor people is exposed for the world to see… over and over and over again. The public is brainwashed into buying the message, and soon anyone who dares to question the message is branded as a racist, homophobe, chauvinist, anti-Semite, etc…
The victims then enjoy a new status in society where they can receive special treatment, special consideration, immunity from criticism and a ready made excuse for personal failure. In many cases they are paid off with guilt money, or get preferential treatment in job hiring or housing.
In return they have to pledge their loyalty to the leaders of the movement, and especially to the message. Anyone who dares to speak against or criticize the message, or it’s proponents, is immediately branded a traitor to the cause. They are very publicly chastised and banished from the community as an example to anyone else contemplating a similar course of action.
It all boils down to a control racket. A small group of people gains control over a large group by psychological manipulation.
The holocaust movement is a textbook example of this scheme. Any Jew who dares speak out against Zionist or Israeli policy is immediately branded a traitor to his people. There is no room for dissent or critical examination of the issues. The leadership is beyond reproach because of their self coronation on to the throne of moral impeccability. Anyone who dares to disagree with them is obviously a bigot, an anti Semite or a paid dis-info agent. Why else would someone dare to question the unquestionable? The message takes on holy status.
Blacks, Jews, women, homosexuals, handicapped, overweight, (the list goes on and on), people are all targeted for this scam. Once they buy into it they’re hooked. They let themselves be convinced that they are truly victims and can only be enabled by the movement. Without the movement they would be marginalized nobodies, hopelessly paddling against an irresistible tide of hatred and misunderstanding. It’s brainwashing at it’s finest.
Organized religions do the same thing. In many religions they tell the flock that unless they accept their particular doctrine, they will burn in hell or become a heathen outcast.
It takes on many forms, but it all boils down to the old tried and true: Crisis, Reaction, Solution.
This is why I take such a dim view of the holocaust. I don't like the people who are running these scams or their agendas. They need to be exposed.


Ted

[jibbguy]

This is just getting more and more absurd.... I guess that is deliberate.

At least one of those above links since my last post are out-and -out "Jew hating" in nature. One of the headings there was: "The Jews Control Space"

Common now.... is this a friggin joke?

No joke unfortunately. They are deliberate disinformation hate sites meant for a specific purpose, and it was enlightening to see them linked (lol but not in the way intended). The other links listed there will help break open this entire network of dis-info hate sites and eventually expose them for what they are.

I really don't see any good coming from continuing the discussion now, as apparently it will simply continue to degenerate and become more and more damaging to the rep of this forum and genre (which is the POINT of those sites after all).

In these forums and throughout the Internet, we often see the sacred tenets of Free Speech used as a weapon against us by those whose ultimate aim is destroying it... And that is true whether those behind their facades are shills or neo-nazis.

And if someone here doesn't like the implications, understand that you did it to yourselves with your own words and links... something i never could have done so effectively simply by statement.

[aljhoa]

"The citizens of the United States of America have the right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were by the indulgence of one class of citizens that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support."—George Washington, letter to the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, Rhode Island, 1790

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