Ammonia (NH3) as fuel for car

[sucahyo]

thanks dave and aaron .

[dave_cahoon]

Your Very Welcome, The books are fun! NO STRESS!! Like in collage.

The reference to the work of Donkin in the Hydrogen Book is proof that ammonia can be made from Air, Hydrogen and Arc, Electrically.

Question now is will Drexel like reactions make the same conversions and how do we get rid of oxygen from the water. Perhaps that's where the oxide in nitrogen hydroxide comes from.??

We could force nitrogen to contact the hydrogen producing plate in a special electrolysis cell. Humm, where was that one?

Still studying
Dave

[Aaron]

references

The hydroxide is really OH- or a "hydroxyl ion." It is what is created from
electrolysis when electron is stripped from water and H separates leaving
OH- and H.

There are multiple possible reactions from N, H, and O. But they are
limited in number when dealing with the starting ingredients of H2O,
N2 and O2.

So add Donkin to this list:
Davy
Reedy & Biggers
Caress & Rideal
Kwei
Olson
Storch

They all don't talk about ammonia necessarily, some do. The others
talk about N, H, and O and their interactions that most people don't
think can happen without some unusual conditions being present.

I saw page 26, just more confirmation and validation that backs the
entire principle of ammonia in this process.

[Slovenia]

Very interesting thread.

[lechancel]

solid fuel idea?

found that.... may be fnterresting for our Experts here !!
Régis

[lechancel]

solid fuel idea?

oups....
http://www.citris-uc.org/system/file...ensen-2007.ppt

[sucahyo]

oups....
http://www.citris-uc.org/system/file...ensen-2007.ppt

Very interesting article . Using ammonia bond with other chemical to produce solid ammonia. Kinda like urea lol.

I don't think it is applicable to ICE though and also:
- extracting ammonia need another process, liquid NH3 can be used directly after some cracking process.
- NH3 is as safe as gasoline
- there is no comparison of energy density of MgNH3Cl with liquid ammonia?
- replacing the pill may become problematic for a device that need continuous supply of NH3.

[Oneminde]

Producing a fuel pellet is not new. This is one method that you can use in order to produce hydrogen fuel (aluminum pelets with NaOH or KOH + H2O).
But in the case of ammonia fuel it is just a waste of time - unless you are a person that absolutly want such a setup. The point is on demand with as few steps as possible...

[tutanka]

Producing a fuel pellet is not new. This is one method that you can use in order to produce hydrogen fuel (aluminum pelets with NaOH or KOH + H2O).
But in the case of ammonia fuel it is just a waste of time - unless you are a person that absolutly want such a setup. The point is on demand with as few steps as possible...

NH3 is the way but not only.. of course you can't use standard chemical reactions if you want produce ammonia on car.. but if you want run an engine properly NH3 is the right way not hydrogen..

[Oneminde]

A question for the group:

Why solid fuel? - why go the long way of producing NH3, then bonding it with another chemical to have a pellet wich you then use as a fuel source in your car - ammonia on demand from a solid compund - think about that one.

That would be to take several steps back in the development or R&D of this intire idea.
You have to drop the idea of storing the fuel - killing the concept if you will.
Liberate your mind.

You don't produce O2, store it in a bottle and then inhale it do you? .. no, the body breaks up the O2 for you directly from the air - the short way.
So by posting information in this tread that deals with "storing" ammonia you are going back in development, a waste of time.

The only reason for storing something is if you have an energy carrier like hydrocarbon that is allready made up for you, then yes, you will need to break it up. And since the internal combustion engine allready is using hydrogen as a fuel compound, then it would be unwise to extract the hydrogen and the fill your car with it... taht is a waste of time.
No, what you do is to produce the ammonia on demand and then let the engine release it for you as part of the combustion process.
Many does not know that an ICE allready is using hydrogen as its fuel. Gasoline is C8H18 and ammonia is NH3 - the only change is the transporter.
The internal combustion engine have always used hydrogen as its combustion fuel - always - It started out with hydrogen (H2), moved on to a denser chemical like gasoline, diesel, propan etc... but it has always been hydrogen as the fuel. So we have hydro-carbon based fuel compound and we have "hydro-nitrogen" if you like. That is it.

The reactions is similar and ammonia is as close to propane as you can get.
And yes, on demand is possible ones you know teh key to it all.
I am not going to post it here and Tutanka is not going to post it here. But, by study the N2 and the NH3 molecule you are going to stare at the "key".

Then ask yourself one question; What is the common thing between these two molecules?
Then ask yourself another question: How much NH3 do I need at all time. Is it 2ml or is it 20 liters... now here is the differance - if you understand what I am getting at with that question, the answers will be obvious.

If you are using a diesel engine, O2 + NH3 is all you need becouse of the ammonia property. If you are using a spark ignition, then you are going to need a "catalyst" for the combustion and so on and so forth.

I hope that the tread can go back on track now, but this post actually belong in this tread, so it is an exception.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ater-fuel.html

My 002

[sucahyo]

You have to drop the idea of storing the fuel - killing the concept if you will. Liberate your mind.

It still a good idea because after the initial invertment, NH3 can be producted for free with the energy from sun and wind. Not every area has them and having a way to store the energy and applied them directly to our car with little modification is better. Because it is faster to implement, can be done today, than having to wait the car industry to produce electric car. For now I think NH3 is better than battery for distributing sun and wind energy. You don't need to return the toxic media back to be refilled. Battery is toxic as waste.

Not every hydrogen is the same. H2 and prophane is more dangerous and need more safety measurement than NH3. NH3 burn as slow as gasoline, which make it safer. NH3 also need very tight air to fuel ratio to explode.

On board production of fuel is good, but it still in development isn't it? There maybe some obstacle need to be overcome before we can use it reliably.

A solid NH3 storage should have its use maybe for camp lamp or similar. It should be safer for the kid to bring something not easily spilled or ignitable .

[tutanka]

It still a good idea because after the initial invertment, NH3 can be producted for free with the energy from sun and wind. Not every area has them and having a way to store the energy and applied them directly to our car with little modification is better. Because it is faster to implement, can be done today, than having to wait the car industry to produce electric car. For now I think NH3 is better than battery for distributing sun and wind energy. You don't need to return the toxic media back to be refilled. Battery is toxic as waste.

Not every hydrogen is the same. H2 and prophane is more dangerous and need more safety measurement than NH3. NH3 burn as slow as gasoline, which make it safer. NH3 also need very tight air to fuel ratio to explode.

On board production of fuel is good, but it still in development isn't it? There maybe some obstacle need to be overcome before we can use it reliably.

A solid NH3 storage should have its use maybe for camp lamp or similar. It should be safer for the kid to bring something not easily spilled or ignitable .

We are working on that .. we transform any LPG car (in the near future also diesel engine) into NH3 car.. no liquid fuel .. creation of NH3 gas on board.. Time estimated for working prototype max 3 months. Regards

[sucahyo]

We are working on that .. we transform any LPG car (in the near future also diesel engine) into NH3 car.. no liquid fuel .. creation of NH3 gas on board.. Time estimated for working prototype max 3 months. Regards

That is fast, good luck .

[Aaron]

Ammonia Combustion

ScienceDirect - Symposium (International) on Combustion : Ammonia combustion properties and performance in gas-turbine burners


F.J. Verkampa, M.C. Hardina and J.R. Williamsa
aApplied Research Department, Allison Division, General Motors Corp., Indianapolis, Indiana, USA



Available online 27 April 2007.

Experimental studies were conducted to determine the minimum ignition energy, quenching distance, flame-stability limits, and gas-turbine-burner performance of ammonia-air mixtures. The minimum ignition energy of ammonia was 8 millijoules compared to less than 0.5 millijoules for propane. At stoichiometric conditions, the quenching distance for ammonia-air was 0.275 in. The corresponding reported value for propane-air is 0.08 in. In the flame stability experiments, ammonia would burn at only one-half the air-flow velocity possible with hydrocarbon fuels and the range of equivalence ratios for stable flame was much narrower than for hydrocarbon fuels. These characteristics were essentially substantiated in gas-turbine-burner testing. It was concluded that neat ammonia cannot be used as a substitute fuel for hydrocarbons in conventional gas-turbine burners unless the ignition-system energy is increased, the combustion linear diameter is increased by a factor of approximately 2, and the ammonia injected in the gaseous state.
Two approaches were investigated for improving the combustion properties of ammonia. These were to use additives or to partially pre-dissociate the ammonia. Additives were tested in the flame-stability apparatus in concentrations of 5% by volume of the total fuel. At this concentration, none of the additives improved the flame-stability properties to the extent required. The minimum ignition energy, quenching distance, and flame-stability properties of 28% dissociated ammonia were approximately equal to these same properties of methane. Partially dissociated ammonia was also tested in the gas-turbine burner. It was concluded that 28% dissociated ammonia could be used as a substitute fuel in gas-turbine-combustion systems optimally sized for hydrocarbon fuels.


Symposium (International) on Combustion
Volume 11, Issue 1, 1967, Pages 985-992

[Aaron]

Development of an Ammonia-Burning Gas Turbine Engine

Defense Technical Information Center Accession Number : AD0671667


Title : DEVELOPMENT OF AN AMMONIA-BURNING GAS TURBINE ENGINE

Descriptive Note : Final technical rept. 30 Sep 1964-31 Jul 1966

Corporate Author : SOLAR TURBINES INTERNATIONAL SAN DIEGO CA
Personal Author(s) : Bull, M. G.
Handle / proxy Url : writeHandle("http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD671667"); http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD671667 Check NTIS Availability...

Report Date : 03 APR 1968

Pagination or Media Count : 56

Abstract : Combustion rig testing with ammonia fuel was conducted using a single can burner configuration. Ammonia was injected into the burner in the liquid state, a combination of vapor and liquid, and in the vapor state. Vaporized ammonia injection gave the most encouraging preliminary results; consequently systems using liquid ammonia injection were abandoned early in the program. Ammonia vapor combustor tests showed it was possible to burn ammonia in a manner similar to that used in conventional hydrocarbon burning combustors, but with a significant reduction in range of flammability. Improvements in combustion performance were obtained by the use of catalytic aids, and techniques using catalytic oxidation of ammonia showed the greatest potential. Two different ammonia combustion systems were developed for use with a gas turbine engine in the 250 hp size range. One system was essentially similar to a conventional hydrocarbon, single can combustor, but of increased size. The second system incorporated an oxidizing catalyst bed integral with the combustor as a means of increasing fuel reaction rate and reducing combustor volume. A standard hydrocarbon burning engine was modified to enable operation using both types of ammonia combustion systems in addition to its normal hydrocarbon system. A development test program was conducted to obtain satisfactory engine operation with each type of combustion system. Performance measurements were made with the engine operating with each type of combustion system. Performance measurements were made with the engine operating with each type of combustion system. The results are plotted and allow comparison between ammonia fuel and hydrocarbon fuel engine performance.

Descriptors : *GAS TURBINES, *FUELS, *AMMONIA, COMBUSTION, FUEL INJECTION, LIQUEFIED GASES, HYDROCARBONS, REACTION KINETICS, CATALYSTS, FLAMMABILITY, VAPORS, COMBUSTION CHAMBERS

Subject Categories : FUELS
JET AND GAS TURBINE ENGINES

Distribution Statement : APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE

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