Ammonia (NH3) as fuel for car

[Aaron]

Patent number: 4201553

Method of improving combustion of ... - Google Patent Search

Disclosure is made of a method of improving the combustion of base fuels selected from ammonia and amines. The method comprises the addition of hydrogen carriers to the base fuels, which possess an energy content and release it together with hydrogen for combustion upon ignition of the base fuel....
Inventor: Hans Osborg

[tutanka]

I currently try to find a way to try it cheaply. I want to try to make a plasma device using radiant oscillator.

Patent give information. Even if they lie to protect it, no one lie the same way. We just need to find the similarity between many information and use it.

Some mention corona, some arc, some spark, some plasma, some heat and some microwave. What I am after is not sparc. I am after electrode glow. I think glow is better than spark because glow happen on all negative electrode area, where spark only happen on tiny part. If glow is hard, then I try to create arc, a continuous DC fire, sparc is high frequency intermittent AC. Just like mentioned in a book published 90 year ago, arc can be obtained bellow spark voltage region.

My first step is to try to make a super ionizer/reactor. I try to make a circuit and device able to create ozone. Then put them to the air input of an engine. The theory is, if atomic Nitrogen and Oxygen can do wonder on hydrogen oxide (H2O, water), it should do wonder on Hydrocarbon (gasoline/diesel). If atomic Nitrogen can react with water to form ammonia/NOx/nitric acid then it should able to react with hydrocarbon to create ammonia/COx/NOx/nitric acid. If an ozonizer in engine input filter do not change anything, then I need a more powerfull ozonizer.

My first step is to see if the ionizer increase engine input without adding anything else like water or hydroxy. And I think this is a viable way for me.

I don't understand you .. why you want continue to use hydrocarbons with reactor.. my suggestion is .. attention because your experiment is very dangerous and you can create an plasma bomb. Regards

[sucahyo]

Method of improving combustion of ... - Google Patent Search
Inventor: Hans Osborg

Nice find. It mention the difficulty of using just hydrogen or just ammonia in combustion engine.

I don't understand you .. why you want continue to use hydrocarbons with reactor.. my suggestion is .. attention because your experiment is very dangerous and you can create an plasma bomb. Regards

Thank you. I don't have budget to get microwave or other sophisticated plasma reactor. I can only afford HV type plasma reactor.

Since I can not try water mix right a way, I need a way to measure the effectiveness of the reactor.

About the danger, plasma reactor only applied to the ambient air input. Although I do want to react it on hydrocarbon too. But Geet already show that. I just want to know if ionized ambient air can increase engine power since I never see report on this yet.

It is just a first step. The next step would be the addition of water vapor plasma.

[Oneminde]

This tread is quiet, so let me ask the members a question.

If you want to install an ammonia fuel system similar to a CNG system, how do you enable such a system to be a stand alone and not a bi-fuel system like many other that convert there car to ammonia needs? There is a solution this - the question is if "you" know??

Clue; Cracking temperatur.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

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This tread is quiet, so let me ask the members a question.

If you want to install an ammonia fuel system similar to a CNG system, how do you enable such a system to be a stand alone and not a bi-fuel system like many other that convert there car to ammonia needs? There is a solution this - the question is if "you" know??

Clue; Cracking temperatur.

A piston engine WILL run on NH3 with added air, the cracking temperature depends on the pressure applied, NH3 is formed and cracked by the same process, only depends on pressure and temperature which way it goes.

Mike

[Oneminde]

A piston engine WILL run on NH3 with added air, the cracking temperature depends on the pressure applied, NH3 is formed and cracked by the same process, only depends on pressure and temperature which way it goes.

Mike

You are reffering to a diesel engine then yes - but for gasoline engine you can not compress that high in order to get auto cracking temperatur. For gasoline engines you need a combustion catalyst. That is why they mix gasoline and ammonia, and the gasoline is used as the combustion catalyst - so the question remains. How do you achive this with the use of ammonia only - what process can you add in order to use ammonia as a standalone fuel??

I can write it, that is not why I posted, I wanted the tread to be active, have debates about it

[Slovenia]

Please Elaborate.

I find it weird that this "simple" process is not revealed yet. After all, everyone that have been working on Meyer tech are staring at it everytime.
There is a reason why I do not post it, but it is interesting to follow the debate. There are other important materials surrounding ammonia and not just production. So keep it guy's - this is a good tread

Hi Oneminde,

Please elaborate, (i.e.: There is a reason why I do not post it). Thanks.

P.S.: Many of us have studied Meyers and were unable to make his systems work due to missing details.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[Oneminde]

Hi Oneminde,

Please elaborate, (i.e.: There is a reason why I do not post it). Thanks.

P.S.: Many of us have studied Meyers and were unable to make his systems work due to missing details.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Yes, that is correct. There "are" many details missing, this forum is making a good progress and in time I feel comfirtible that all will be revealed. I am constructing a similar system as a product and that is why I do not post everything at this moment.

What I am talking about here is that you need a combustion catalyst if you are using a gasoline engine on ammonia, Diesel engines can auto crack ammonia from high pressure. But gasoline engines can not - so ammonia is used in gasoline engines as part of a bi-fuel system - hence; A % mixture of gasoline and ammonia. What I want or seek is another way to introduce a combustion catalyst by only using ammonia. So my question is which catalyst can you use and how do you get hold of that catalyst??

Clue: It has to do with a cracker catalyst, and yes, the catalyst is used as the fuel also, so it serves two purposes.)

As an exemple - most people start with a higher blend of gasoline to increase the engine temperatur and after introduce more and more ammonia. So, how do you by pass the need for a hydrocarbone combustion catalyst??

[sucahyo]

If you want to install an ammonia fuel system similar to a CNG system, how do you enable such a system to be a stand alone and not a bi-fuel system like many other that convert there car to ammonia needs?

Ted Hollinger way, 100% ammonia and already running:
- ammonia source is liquid that converted to gas internally with cracking or with electrolysis
- ammonia is preheated with radiator temperature, with electric heater on cold condition.
- ammonia then cracked with exhaust temperature.
- with special fuel management system

[Oneminde]

Ted Hollinger way, 100% ammonia and already running:
- ammonia source is liquid that converted to gas internally with cracking or with electrolysis
- ammonia is preheated with radiator temperature, with electric heater on cold condition.
- ammonia then cracked with exhaust temperature.
- with special fuel management system

Yes, pre heated is one way - enough pre heated will produce the catalyst AND - newly formed exhoust CRACKs the ammonia.
So the combustion catalyst is hydrogen which derives from the ammonia.
So in such a setup - there are ammonia and hydrogen mixed. From cold start to full operation of the engine, the need of the catalyst decrease and so you use maybe 95% ammonia and 5% H2 when engine temperature is reached.
To much cracking lowers the potential hydrogen ammount - much of the point of using ammonia is to deliver a liquid fuel and not a gas.
Diesel engine have much higher combustion temperatur and will almost all the time crack ammonia whitout an combustion catalyst.
So nice to know that people have it working on only ammonia

[Michael John Nunnerley]

you answered it yourself

You are reffering to a diesel engine then yes - but for gasoline engine you can not compress that high in order to get auto cracking temperatur. For gasoline engines you need a combustion catalyst. That is why they mix gasoline and ammonia, and the gasoline is used as the combustion catalyst - so the question remains. How do you achive this with the use of ammonia only - what process can you add in order to use ammonia as a standalone fuel??

I can write it, that is not why I posted, I wanted the tread to be active, have debates about it

In your further posts you have answered it for yourself, more or less, not exactly, but close enough.

H2 is a catylist in itself, heat, but you need something else as well, wonder if you know what it is?

PURE NH3 is not the gas, it is part, but there is much more in the formula, the trick is to know how to complete it so it works.

I have always said that it is a chain reaction and that is what it is, different engines require a slightly different aproach for the end result. Fixed RPM engines are not my problem but a car with rapid changing RPM is a problem for me at the moment, but I will get there I hope

Mike

[Oneminde]

In your further posts you have answered it for yourself, more or less, not exactly, but close enough.

H2 is a catylist in itself, heat, but you need something else as well, wonder if you know what it is?

Mike

For a combustion you need a fuel, you need an oxygen source and you need ignition source as well as heat. If this is not the answer you are seeking, then redirect me to what you want me to anwser - thank you.

[Slovenia]

Thank You

In your further posts you have answered it for yourself, more or less, not exactly, but close enough.

H2 is a catylist in itself, heat, but you need something else as well, wonder if you know what it is?

PURE NH3 is not the gas, it is part, but there is much more in the formula, the trick is to know how to complete it so it works.

I have always said that it is a chain reaction and that is what it is, different engines require a slightly different aproach for the end result. Fixed RPM engines are not my problem but a car with rapid changing RPM is a problem for me at the moment, but I will get there I hope

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for this very interesting post.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[paulsonaivy]

nh3as fuel

In your further posts you have answered it for yourself, more or less, not exactly, but close enough.

H2 is a catylist in itself, heat, but you need something else as well, wonder if you know what it is?

PURE NH3 is not the gas, it is part, but there is much more in the formula, the trick is to know how to complete it so it works.

I have always said that it is a chain reaction and that is what it is, different engines require a slightly different aproach for the end result. Fixed RPM engines are not my problem but a car with rapid changing RPM is a problem for me at the moment, but I will get there I hope

Mike

wow thats a gr8 post,
i would like to add to it,
its h2 + exhauast+ nh3
rgds paul

[swa-plasma]

Platinum as catalyst to burn ammonia

All,

Good video to watch:

YouTube - Catalytic oxidation of ammonia

If we could produce ammonia on board (= on demand), may be spark plug with platinum tip on it's electrodes could be use as catalyst.

Rev.