Ammonia (NH3) as fuel for car

[sucahyo]

I will update this thread as I learn more.

Anyone interested download all PDF from here:
Iowa Energy Center, Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency; Research, Education and Demonstration - Ammonia as a Fuel

There is a discussion about efficacy, cost, problem, and future for ammonia as fuel.

Some ammonia benefit are:
- green gas output.
- safer than prophane, as safe as gasoline.
- in liquid form have more energy density than liquid hydrogen.
- can directly replace existing vehicle fuel. Work with diesel or gasoline engine.
- cheaper than gasoline, or in case you can do self sustaining on board generation of ammonia from air, free.
- easily obtainable


Link to ammonia car retrofit / aftermarket modification:
Hydrofuel Inc. - The World's leading developer of ammonia fuel and energy technologies - ammonia car technology - Home
Hydrogen Engine Center
NH3 Car
Hydrofuel Inc. - The World's leading developer of ammonia fuel and energy technologies - ammonia car technology - Home

For example of use, nice detailed info:
NH3 ICE Hot Rod Demo

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Nice work

I will update this thread as I learn more.

Anyone interested download all PDF from here:
Iowa Energy Center, Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency; Research, Education and Demonstration - Ammonia as a Fuel

There is a discussion about efficacy, cost, problem, and future for ammonia as fuel.

Some ammonia benefit are:
- green gas output.
- safer than prophane, as safe as gasoline.
- in liquid form have more energy density than liquid hydrogen.
- can directly replace existing vehicle fuel. Work with diesel or gasoline engine.
- cheaper than gasoline, or in case you can do self sustaining on board generation of ammonia from air, free.
- easily obtainable


Link to ammonia car retrofit / aftermarket modification:
Hydrofuel Inc. - The World's leading developer of ammonia fuel and energy technologies - ammonia car technology - Home
Hydrogen Engine Center
NH3 Car
Hydrofuel Inc. - The World's leading developer of ammonia fuel and energy technologies - ammonia car technology - Home

For example of use, nice detailed info:
NH3 ICE Hot Rod Demo

Nice work looking up all this, now how can we make the ammonia at the point of use? Now that is the best of all, a little water, air and a catalist.

Mike

[Slovenia]

sucahyo,

Thanks for starting this thread. I too am very interested at looking into using ammonia as a fuel.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[sucahyo]

I wonder why ammonia is not used yet for car/generator when it is the easier to implement solution for "global warming"...



Ammonia has much greater hyrogen density than H2:


Ammonia utilization in car:

Ted Hollinger:
Control is Key
• Controls fuel mix for starting and stopping
• Controls equivalence ratio
• Performs engine diagnostics
• Controls spark timing for best performance










Wang:





Other:

[sucahyo]

Ammonia Production 1

Ammonia Production:
Conventional method










SSAS Solid State Ammonia Synthesis
- Solid-state electrochemical process
- Water (steam) decomposed at anode
- Hydrogen atoms adsorb, stripped of electrons
- Hydrogen conducts (as proton) through proton-conducting ceramic electrolyte
- Protons emerge at cathode, regain electrons, and react with adsorbed, dissociated nitrogen atoms to form NH3
- Patent application –February 2007

Looks very similar to what Meyer do.

[sucahyo]

Ammonia production 2

NTP - Non Thermal Plasma
The non-thermal plasma generated by dielectric barrier discharge can ionize and dissociate N2 and H2 molecules to form a large number of activated species, which react to produce ammonia molecules.

Maybe this is usefull for tutanka.

















On board, Delphi:





Stanley Meyer (purely my opinion), from SMTB
Compare this description with SSAS process, Meyer may also use heat as well (at spark plug):

First water mist (47) of Figure (4-4) is injected into fuel-mixing chamber (35) of Figure (45) by way of water spray ports (41a xxx 41n) of Figure (4-4); Secondly, ionized air gases (46a xxx 46n) of Figure (4-4) (laser primed ambient air gases having missing electrons) produced by Ambient Air Ionizer (80) of Figure (4-6) as to Figure (4-1) and non-combustible gases (45) of Figure (4-4) are intermixed with expelling water mist (47a xxx47n) to form Water-fuel mixture (48) by way of gas mixing disc (34) of Figure (4-5) as to (30) of Figure (4-2);

Compare this description with NTP process and the frequency used in one of NTP graph:

thirdly, the resultant moving Water-Fuel mixture (48) of Figure (4-5) enters into Voltage Igniter Stage (180) of Figure (4-5) and exposed to hjgh intensity voltage fields (33/36) (typically 2,000 volts or above @ 10 Khz or above) of opposite electrical polarity (E7 / E8) ... which, in turn, not only performs electrical polarization process (160) of Figure (3-26) undergoing Dielectric Resonant (240) of Figure (3-31); but, also, sets up and triggers Hydrogen Fracturing Process (390) of Figure (3-42) as to Figure (3-6) under control state (on demand) via electrical-static spark ignition (49/51) of Figure (4-5) .... releasing thermal explosive energy (gtnt) (16) passing beyond gas exit port (32) of Figure (4-5), as further illustrated in Figure (4-2) as to Figure (4-1).

[sucahyo]

Greg Vezina

Greg Vezina
SAN FRANCISCO NH3 FUEL CONFERENCE OCTOBER 16, 2007

SAN FRANCISCO CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPTION

12:14:29:00 HOST: Well fasten your seatbelts and put your tray tables up because Greg Vezina is going to make an interesting talk for us. Greg has been working in the ammonia fuel field for 25 years in Canada, a quiet secret in the United States, but he brought some interesting news down to us. He’s going to talk to us and take us into lunch.

What we’re trying to load is a clip that was on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation last November showing Greg in a 1981 Chevy Impala crashing into Princess Diana’s… laughter from crowd.

VEZINA: That’s right, crashing into the wall – crashing into the government of Canada, exactly.

HOST: Can you start without the clip?

VEZINA: Yeah, if we can get it to run we’ll go. Kathy brings him something Thank you Kathy.

12:15:27:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): Hi everybody. The first thing I would like to say is I would like to thank John Holbrook and Norm Olson for making it possible for me and all the rest of us to start this great and epic battle again.

The first speech I ever gave on ammonia fuel was the first speech I ever gave in my life, and it was at the Recreational Vehicles Manufactures Association convention in 1981. The RV people thought it was quite cool that ammonia worked and that we could run some RVs on it. And I can assure you of absolutely one thing – that today the floor show will be worth the price of admission ladies and gentlemen.

12:16:16:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): This all started when I was sitting in a garage and read an article about ammonia fuel and some work that had been done by Professor Jeff Kerr and some other people, and I realized that ammonia was the cheap and easy way to get to hydrogen. But I’d like to pay a brief tribute to Frodo, the Frodo’s of ammonia. Because many, many of the people that have ever lived, that have ever made a vehicle or engine run on ammonia fuel, are alive today – starting with Vito Agosta, Professor Jeff Kerr from the University of Tennessee, the work that we did in Saskatchewan and Canada in 1981 to 84’, of Ted Hollinger of Page 1 of 17 HEC, Shawn Grannell and his colleagues from the University of Michigan, and the thing that gives us great pleasure and great promise is the fact that we get a chance to try it twice.

University of Tennessee, the work that we did in Saskatchewan and Canada in 1981 to 84’, of Ted Hollinger of HEC, Shawn Grannell and his colleagues from the University of Michigan, and the thing that gives us great pleasure and great promise is the fact that we get a chance to try it twice. And it isn’t very often when you try something and don’t have the success that you sought that you get to try it twice.

Geez, I’d really like to play that video.

12:17:44:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): So on the 25th anniversary of us being on Parliament Hill in Canada (we were on Parliament Hill with our ammonia car), the day that Canada signed its constitution. We had a press conference scheduled the night before and nobody showed up. And the Governor General of Canada his Excellency the Right Honorable Edward Schreyer who was formerly the Premier of Manitoba and tried to develop hydrogen as a fuel in his province in the mid- seventies, sent the Royal Canadian Mounted Police out to Parliament with an invitation from her Majesty’s loyal representative to be on the Hill the next morning at 11:00 o’clock. Most members of Cabinet and most members of Parliament – including the Honorable Simon deJong who’s sitting here in this room and has helped us for a quarter of a century – showed up.

Unfortunately for the world Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau walked down the front steps of Parliament, looked at us, snubbed the Governor General, and went over to talk about how on the night of the long knives he had signed a constitution while the Premier of Quebec was asleep the night before. Pierre Trudeau was asleep, in my opinion, for the rest of his life. He ended up ending his career starting a worldwide peace mission and if we can ever get this clip to play I can actually make this segway really good but we’ll see.

Laughs Murphy’s Law.

12:19:26:00 They decide to just play the clip from the computer. VEZINA (CONT’D): If you want to see this if you haven’t seen it – probably most of you have anyways – but it’s available at my personal website gregvezina.com. It’s not available on the corporate website because the license to use it is for educational purposes, which means I suppose I’m not allowed to make any money with it, which is the way its been for the last twenty-five years so why should it be any different? Nothing changes.


They fiddle with the computer while Greg does a charming little dance onstage. They get everything working and hold the microphone up to the computer.

12:20:50:00 ANCHOR: 25 years later, why hasn’t this Canadian’s clean,
CBC VIDEO green, hydrogen fuel machine taken over the roads?

Drive a hybrid? Think you’re pretty smart? Well your vehicle may be fuel efficient but as far as ahead of the curve? Sorry, that prize goes to Greg Vezina. Twenty-five years ago he found fame by getting his Chevy Impala to run on something he called “hydro-fuel”. So what happened to Vezina and his Chevy? In tonight’s checking in Piya Chattopadhyay finds out.

REPORTER: Greg Vezina fancies himself a man ahead of the times, and he was, twenty-five years ago. He retrofitted his 1981 Chevy Impala into a car for the future, fueled by what Vezina named “hydrofuel” – essentially ammonia which is a mix of hydrogen with a little nitrogen. The exhaust was clean and it was cheaper to run his car on hydrofuel than on gasoline.

The Energy Minister of the day took it for a spin, he said he liked it, so did the Governor General. All in all Vezina thought he had a winner.

VEZINA: Within five years, assuming the government attitude towards the technology was proper, it would be available to the consumers.

REPORTER: Fast-forward to today.

VEZINA: Here’s the fuel of the future. Twenty-five years of rust on it.

REPORTER: Vezina’s vehicle sits idle. It still starts and Vezina still believes it’s the cure for the world’s energy woes. But he says shortly after his appearance on Parliament Hill back in 81’ interest in his idea all but disappeared. Vezina speculates it’s because the government owned Petro-Canada so there wasn’t much political will to develop alternative fuels.

VEZINA: What do I say? You know you can be right, but you gotta wait for history. And that’s basically what happened to us, we were right but history wasn’t ready, the world wasn’t ready.


REPORTER: Today nearly every major car maker is working on alternative fuel technologies, predicting consumers will be driving vehicles entirely powered by those technologies as early as six years from now. But many analysts say it will be many more years, perhaps as many as thirty, before hydrogen run cars will be clogging our highways because the technology is still so expensive.

EXPERT: There’s not enough money to support all of this development that’s required and thus there is a viable role for government to come in and support some of these initiatives to try to kick start them to keep them going.

REPORTER: As for Greg Vezina, he’s thinking of once again kick starting his project. Twenty-five years on he says the dream is still alive and it may be time to go back to the future – again. CBC News Toronto.

12:24:03 VEZINA: Alright so there we go. So we came about as close as you can get to actually accomplishing something and then reality stepped in. And the reality of the situation is that politicians don’t do what’s right, they do what’s expedient and that’s just the way it is.

So what happened to Greg Vezina? Well I decided to go start the Green Party of Canada. And the guy that was on the National News three weeks before couldn’t even get on local cable 10 because the broadcasters are in on it with the politicians. So we prosecuted the broadcasters all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada for not letting us on TV and ten years later lost our case on a technicality. But in the meantime my wife Kathy and I, we were very successful in business and we had enough money to produce two Leaders’ debates that ran for two hours in prime time in two elections - because the only thing the broadcasters care about more than their deals with politicians is money. And they like money.

And then we wrote a book about proportional representation and electoral reform in Canada that was sponsored by Frank Stronach, the chairman of Magna International, probably one of the largest auto parts companies in the world. That was in 93’ and we managed ten years later to convince the present Premier of Ontario, Dalton McGuinty, the then opposition leader, to have a referendum (the first referendum in Ontario in almost one hundred years) on electoral reform. And that election was held on October 10th and the Green Party didn’t win a single seat and the Liberals got a great, big, fat majority on 40% of the vote, the referendum failed.

But that doesn’t matter because the only reason we did all that was so that we could talk about ammonia, and thanks to John and Norm we’re here anyway! So let’s take a minute and talk about the realities.

12:26:14:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): In 1981 we did this business plan, and I love when people ask me for numbers because this is the most favorite part of my job - is the pages and pages and pages of numbers. And what we propose to do is build a 1000 metric ton a day, 300 megawatt electrolytic hydrogen ammonia plant using the vast amounts of hydroelectric power which were surplus in Ontario back then. The plant completely paid for itself in five years, made 100 million dollars a year after that, and provided enough fuel for half the fleet vehicles in cities of Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.

[sucahyo]

Greg Vezina 2

Had our government, instead of former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney giving 28 billion dollars in taxpayer’s subsidies to the oil industry and the Liberal governments in-between. And our present Prime Minister continues the wonderful practice of using taxpayer’s money to subsidize industry to kill their children. The science is clear that 40% of all children born now will develop asthma. The direct relationship between the health consequences and hydrocarbon fuels are very clear.

The economic consequences of importing energy are well known to everybody, and although the environmental result of the Brazilian experiment to go to alcohol fuels is somewhat dubious. The fact of the matter is that you can spend ten times as much on domestic energy as you do on imported energy and you’re better off because the money and the jobs stay in your own economy and someone else doesn’t buy your country for five cents on the dollar – something that both Canada and the United States have experienced.

12:28:21:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): And so we did a business plan because politicians like you to bring them lots of business plans, and they didn’t want to fund the real answer so they said, “Well why don’t you do another business plan on a dog and pony show?” And so we did another business plan on how to convert 100 fleet vehicles to do a fleet demonstration.

And the Minister of Energy and the Minister of the Environment were on the news telling everybody how, assuming we could make it on a competitive basis with oil, that was the kind of thing that they would encourage and support. And their departments were working very closely with us and this project would come on-stream in the very near future. And after three-and-a-half years of negotiations the government of Canada did one very, very, very important thing.

Fortunately I’m the only person alive that knows about it besides the people that took the cheque for the report. They hired a company called Chemetics International which was a division of CIL, and Chemetics International took our secret business plan, which we have never given them and we had non-disclosures and all kinds of papers that no one could give it to anybody. And they obtained it and they did a report on ammonia as a vehicle fuel. And this report was published in April of 1984.

It’s very important that you understand the conclusions. It’s absolutely wonderful to be here today because everything that they recommended be done was done by somebody else for some other fuel, except for some of the few things that we did, and history made it happen anyway. But I just want to take a couple of seconds and read a couple of pages of this. And I normally don’t give speeches with notes or anything else because of the first speech I gave in my life, but here it goes.

12:30:18:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): Conclusions and recommendations. This
Reading from report started from a rather negative pre-conceived feeling as
Chemetics to the potentials of ammonia as a vehicle fuel.
International
Report Sidebar – it was an accident they got someone to write the report that thought it wouldn’t work in the first place.

The study has indicated a very real potential from a pure technical point of view on some positive features for safety and environmental concerns. If the economics of capital cost continue to improve and the high cost and scarcity of hydrocarbon fuels become more acute, ammonia will become a viable option either as a hydrogen carrier fuel or possibly as a direct combustion fuel.

It is conceivable that conditions relating to hydrogen fuels may already exist locally in remote areas or in developing countries. There could be available renewable resources to generate electricity and hence ammonia.

The following list is a generalized summary of the conclusions that have been formed.

1. There are no technical or practical engineering problems that are not very logically solvable for the general usage of ammonia as an I.C.E. fuel.

2. The safety and acceptance of ammonia as an I.C.E. fuel should not be difficult to achieve.

3. There are no known ecological or environmental problems with ammonia as an I.C.E. fuel and in fact indications are that significant improvements could be achieved over hydrocarbon fuels.

4. The replacement of hydrocarbon by electricity is the energy source and raw material for ammonia fuelled I.C.E.s is technically feasible.

5. There will have to be major development in manufacture of I.C.E. specific to ammonia for the fuel to be effective.

6. There will have to be major change in the present cost structure for ammonia to become a viable commercial option to present hydrocarbon based fuel systems.

12:32:29:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): I didn’t agree entirely with all their
Reading from conclusions and I believe that there was certainly some bias’,
Chemetics but the bottom line was that they said it worked. Now here’s
International the important part, the recommendations.
Report
CONT’D Reading from Report As the concerns for hydrocarbon conservational and environmental damage cause are on the increase, all viable options must be looked at in depth. The alternatives are many and varied and the ramifications are astronomical. It follows then that a knowledgeable planned evolution to the new and probably numerous options must be set up.

In the case of anhydrous ammonia some of the more important recommendations for further work would be:

• The study of the total effect and advantages of ammonia as a fuel for the reduction of ecological damage caused by hydrocarbon fuel combustion.
• The development of an I.C.E. specifically optimized for direct ammonia combustion without chemical additives.
• The continued study of the effects to human health in the long-term recovery from serious exposure to ammonia.
• A well-conceived and carefully documented experimental installation of ammonia fuel I.C.E.’s in specific applications.
• The utilization of ammonia fueled I.C.E.’s based on ammonia dissociation should be studied in depth. This could affect the emphasis on recommendations in number 2 and 4. And the potential for small-scale production of ammonia in areas of very cheap electricity should be investigated to establish whether ammonia could be cost competitive with existing fuels in the near future.

12:34:16:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): And what did the government of Canada do with this report? The Government of Canada three weeks later wrote me a letter saying it was the policy of the Government of Canada not to fund or develop any non- hydrocarbon alternative fuels, and our new Prime Minister’s first order of business, the late great Brian Mulroney (not late yet but that’s coming) was to kill the national energy program and raise the Canadian price to world price to give almost 30 billion dollars of taxpayer’s money, deficit financed, borrowed money to the oil industry and to kill the renewable, solar, wind, and hydrogen programs at the national research council of Canada. I want to say thank you to Brian Taylor, the head of the energy division of the NRC because he got the budget to fund the Chemetics report.

I’ve contacted the NRC and they no longer have this report, it has been lost. I asked a Member of Parliament to search the Library of Parliament because every document that’s paid for by the Government of Canada is supposed to be in the Library of Parliament, some reason they can’t find it.

We approached the government of Canada again last year and said, “Would you investigate the use of ammonia as an internal combustion engine fuel?” They said, “We actually are looking at it for fuel cells, however until we implement our new funding programs to give billions of dollars of taxpayers money to ethanol, methanol, and other hydrocarbon alternatives we will not be able to do an evaluation.”

You can be sure that Canada will be absolutely the first country that our Corporation will blow all our resources on in developing this technology.

Now I feel better, ok boys and girls? Laughter.


12:36:18:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): Now let’s talk about the exciting news and what’s going on.

We filed twenty provisional patent applications in United States on Friday, and the twenty applications cover everything from retrofit internal combustions engines to duel fuel gasoline, duel fuel ammonia, to tri-fuel, to multi-fuel, to interchangeable multi-fuel compatibility systems and hardware, software, to electronic new ECU control units where we own the software, and software for fuel mapping for multi-level fuel combustion maps so you can actually run any fuel and every fuel through our system.

[sucahyo]

Greg Vezina 3

12:37:13:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): Ladies and gentleman, I’d like to take a second and unveil for you our prototype system which has been built by Icom Italia. This product is built for ammonia specifically and this product will be available for retail use everywhere except Canada early in the new year. Laugher

Our approach to alternative energy has been to build something that works, to build something that we can demonstrate, and to build something that can be very quickly commercialized. Because the bottom line is, if you can’t get into business and if you can’t prove your economic case you’ve got to rely on government grants and private investment. I was told that I could not swear up here, but I ain’t applying for no fracken’ government grants.

Explains prototype system So this is a Toroidal tank, which is a new donut tank design that is designed for ammonia. Of course it will have to be white according to the standards. And this is the fuel rails and all the rest of the hardware and the software.

This system will retail for $6,000 American with the Toroidal tank and about $8,000 with a larger cylindrical tank. This system is a gasoline, ammonia duel-fuel. The system runs on gasoline for the first fifteen seconds in order to purge the fuel rails, it is important to use a little bit of gasoline so that the gasoline in your tank doesn’t go stale.

Otherwise once you start the engine, after fifteen seconds the thing runs on 100% ammonia with no additives and no accelerant. The reason we can do this is because the science of ammonia, although it is very well known, there are very few people that have actually done it.

12:39:37:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): And I’d like to tell you a story about the engineer who went to the factory and they built this wonderful machine, and it was making them all kinds of money and it broke. And they couldn’t get the inventor to fix it because he’d passed on, so they hired this engineer. They said, “Please come and fix our wonderful system!”

The engineer went in and he looked at it for awhile and he asked somebody for a hammer and he smacked the machine and it started up, it ran and ran and ran. And he sent them a bill, a rather big bill, and the bean counters got at it and they said, “We want an itemized bill. We want to know what you want a million dollars for.”

And he sent them an itemized bill back: $1.00 for smacking it with a hammer and $999,999.00 for knowing where to smack it.

Ladies and gentleman, we know where to smack it! The secret to ammonia is in the fuel to air mixtures, the tighter you can get the fuel to air mixtures, the better you can control the spark, the easier it is to use. Gasoline ammonia duel fuel systems are the easiest, first in the game. We’re completing a manufacturing agreement with Icom North America and Icom Italia who builds the Roush Engineering dedicated propane powered fuel system for the F-150 Pickup Truck, for Ford, that you can buy now, but it costs 10,000 dollars.

And I expect at some point, someday, some automobile manufacturer may be interested in buying exactly the same components that they’re buying now from exactly the same company for a new fuel, the only difference is it will have this little tag on it (Hydrofuel logo) and we’ll get paid.

12:41:40:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): So let’s talk about diesel because diesel ammonia is a different challenge as you’ve seen from the presentations here and there are a myriad of options and technologies that can be used.

We will be unveiling our diesel ammonia duel fuel system, it wasn’t ready here but we’ll be unveiling it shortly. If you remember hydrofuelnh3.com and when my lawyers are finished in about six weeks hydrofuel dot anything, anywhere on the planet, you’ll be able to find us because we’ve had the trademark for hydrofuel since 1984, and according to the internet rules first out gets the word. And although there are cyber squatters all over the world who believe in free enterprise – like I’ll pay them $100,000 for a domain – the rules are the good guys win in the end. So if you remember the word hydrofuel you’ll be able to find us.

12:42:44:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): The next system we’ll put out will be an ammonia diesel duel fuel system and it will not be compression ignition it will be spark because it just makes it so much easier.

We are in final negotiations with the largest manufacturer in the world, converting diesel to spark for use with compressed natural gas and we will be making that announcement in a couple of weeks, building our prototype and releasing our prototype early in the new year. That system runs on between 5% and 30% diesel depending on load.

12:43:28:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): One of the biggest problems in using ammonia fuel and one of the reasons that you need, in most applications, a combustion promoter is vaporization because you need heat to vaporize ammonia. There’s some differences, this system is a liquid injection as oppose to vapor, there is high pressure and low pressure, so we have filed a provisional patent for an electric vaporizer so that when you turn the key you use the power of the battery to vaporize ammonia you don’t have to wait for heat and vaporization from water from the cooling system.

12:44:11:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): I’m just going to take a second and give you a list of the twenty provisional patens that we’ve filed, and if you ask me any technical questions I’m going to tell you to go away until the issue of the patents is finished because although this is a presentation this isn’t a fishing camp.

- Compression ignition to ammonia spark ignition engine conversion
- Ammonia fumigation system for compression ignition engines
- Ammonia liquid ingestion system for compression ignition engines
- Ammonia vapor ignition system for compression ignition engines
- Ammonia LPG fumigation system for compression ignition engines
- Ammonia LPG liquid injection for compression ignition engines
- Ammonia LPG vapor injection systems
- Ammonia high pressure vapor fuel injection
- Ammonia liquid injection for SI
- Ammonia low pressure vapor carbonation system
- Ammonia low pressure vapor fuel for spark
- Tri-fuel high pressure vapor fuel
- Tri-fuel liquid
- Tri-fuel low pressure
- Tri-fuel low pressure for SI
- Electrical LPG vaporizers
- Electrical ammonia vaporizer
- Electrical ammonia LPG vaporizer

To man offside I only got five minutes left, but whatever. You can throw me off the stage, it’s happened before.

12:45:43:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): To audience And now the fun part.

The ammonia systems that we will put out will be compatible for both propane and ammonia and they will have a tri-fuel map so that whether you’re running on diesel ammonia or gasoline ammonia when you run out of ammonia you’ll be able to fill the tank with propane and use propane as a fuel on our retail system.

So that’s all I got to say about ammonia as an automotive fuel, I have a few more words to talk about ammonia as a vehicle to grid system.

12:46:22:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): We have a press release that we’ll pass out when I’ve finished speaking. We’ve filed our patent on a vehicle to grid application. We’ve got a generator in the system and hardware that bolts onto virtually any transmission, any vehicle that comes with the transmission, PTO access panel, most manual transmissions have two – one on each side, most automatics have one, although my press release says it works for green fuels it works for any fuel. So you’ll be able to use existing vehicles with our technology to make between fifteen and fifty kilowatts of power parked anywhere, anytime. This product is being manufactured and will be available as well for sale next year.

So we solve some problems with distributed power generation. You can use ammonia to do it, you can use diesel, and you can use whatever you want. But the fact of the matter is that the maintenance costs for the grids, the distribution losses for long-range transportation of power and the build cost for new grids are many times more costly then what it costs to build the power when you need it. And our concept is ultimately to have the world use liquid electricity – which is ammonia – made from green sources and made from brown sources turned green, which is our final patent, so that you can store off peak power and you can put it on the grid as peak power. And finally our hybrid design will allow you to take all of the engine’s power and use ammonia to generate 100 to 150 kilowatts of electricity out of a vehicle and make electricity and ammonia the energy currency that they are.

[sucahyo]

Greg Vezina 4

12:48:44:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): Now let’s talk about greenhouse gas. All of us are going to remember the Cat in the Hat, Dr. Seuss. And the kid was in his room and the room was all messed up and in came the Cat in the Hat with this machine. And he had about five machines connected and one machine swept the floor and one machine mopped the table and one machine did the dishes and one machine picked up the toys.

Well ammonia is the Cat in the Hat fuel because if you put a number of chemical processes and plants together you can do things with ammonia that you can’t do anywhere else. The secret to what we’ve done is we’ve filed a provisional patent on a carbon capture technology and this is a technology that uses an old technology from the steel industry, a calciner for a low-temperature boil in a closed loop cycle and it allows you to boil the moisture and the oxygen all off of biomass and of fairly clean garbage.

The work that we saw yesterday from Geraldine Botte, we’ve been studying that work for a long time, and we’ve included in our provisional patent a plant process that used solid waste, municipal waste and the possibility of farm and human waste and I guess we might have to talk to Geraldine about doing something there, but here’s how it works.

You take a ton of garbage, you and up with 1/3 of a ton of carbon. You end up with some gasses, you have to clean the gasses, you end up with lots of waste heat.

You have an ammonia synthesis plant. You use some of the waste steam for your synthesis process, you use the oxygen in the electrical generating plan and you burn ammonia in a retrofitted gas turbine high efficiency GE gas turbine, there’s about 42%. When you burn ammonia and oxygen you’re getting a huge increase in efficiency and power output.

And there’s a couple of other interesting things we do with waste material, from one plan that feeds another plant and in the end of the day the Cat in the Hat machine takes all of the CO2 out of the synergy plant, whether the feed stock is coal or natural gas it all goes back into the calciner and it builds mountains of carbon. We propose that the carbon will be used for carbon fiber, for building carbon bricks, and we don’t think very many municipal politicians will be able to vote to give their garbage to waste companies to bury it and strip off the cream methane and leave it there for 10,000 years because we propose to give that back to the municipalities for free for building material for low-income housing and we propose to ask former President Jimmy Carter to put the labor together with Habitat for Humanity so that we can house our people.

12:52:15:00 VEZINA (CONT’D): There’s the dream ladies and gentleman.

In the immortal words of Gene Roddenberry, “We are about to boldly go where no one has gone before.” Live long and prosper.

QUESTIONS

12:52:43:00 HOST: Well food is out there waiting but I’m sure there are probably a couple burning questions for Greg, so who wants to be first?

QUESTION 1: What about emissions?

VEZINA: Where?

QUESTION 1: Tailpipe emissions.

VEZINA: This was well published in the Chemetics stuff. There’s virtually no CO2 emissions from ammonia. There’s a little bit of emissions on the gasoline, but they are what they are. The NOx admissions are projected to be about 25% of existing emissions and that’s not with the new reducing catalyst.

You must remember that the three way catalyst beds, the contaminates and effluents from one contaminate the beds from the others and it makes the catalysts very expensive. We’ll probably use a non-selective reducing catalyst, a single catalyst and be able to take those emissions down even further. But I can meet 2020 California emissions today. Unfortunately I’m not waiting two years to sell in California, I’m going to sell in states like Washington where these guys have got bills passed, where they recognize ammonia is a fuel.


12:53:50:00 QUESTION 2: If British Petroleum gets all of your company and holds all of your patents for the next twenty years, what good are these patents going to do anyone in this room?

VEZINA: Well I have a fantastic answer for that and thank you very much because it’s a great question. The coal industry is under siege. The only guys that are meaner than the ammonia guys are the coal guys. The ammonia business was owned by a whole bunch of companies and was very competitive 25 years ago, now it’s owned by very few companies and it’s not very competitive. But the coal industry is looking for a life and our technology will allow them to turn coal or oil or natural gas into green ammonia and capture all of the CO2. So after I leave here I’m going to sell it all to the coal guys and let the Arabs fight with the American coal industry.

I can tell you one thing. When the average American and Canadian citizen finds out that we have the technology and we’ve had the technology for a quarter of a century or longer to do this, and that this is not about energy and this is not about the environment and this is not about economics – this is about freedom. This is about you don’t have to go to war with anybody anymore because you don’t have to fight with them, because you don’t have to leave where you are to go to the land of the free because you can use your own indigenous resources to create your own energy and your own economics and your own job and your own future.

This is about liberty and that’s what motivates me. And you’re not going to stop freedom. They might be able to stall it but they’re not going to stop this. There is no Senator that will be able to get elected and no Congressman who wants to subsidize oil and send their kids to Iraq when by just purely not subsidizing oil we can pay for this.

You must understand that the government subsidies alone to ethanol in the United States over the next five years would convert every vehicle in this country to ammonia fuel. It’s astounding how much money we give away to the wrong people. I don’t want any government grants, I don’t want any subsidies and I don’t want a carbon tax – I want an environment tax! I don’t want to target just carbon, I want to target waste, I want to target all of it, and then I want free enterprise to reign free. Because if you can buy an ammonia fuel system for $8,000.00 and fuel at 50 cents a liter and the jobs are in your own economy, or you can buy gasoline at $2.00 a liter with $1.00 a liter environment tax, what one are you going to buy? I don’t have to spend a cent on advertising or public relations, I just have to use common sense.

Did I answer your question?

QUESTION 2: Well no.

VEZINA: Well then ask it again!

12:57:01:00 QUESTION 2: If British Petroleum takes over all your patents by taking over your company and buries them, what good will any of your patents do anyone in this room?

VEZINA: They got to get me to sign it and get an agreement to sell it.

QUESTION 2: Well that’s not hard.

VEZINA: It isn’t eh? You obviously don’t know me very well. You should Wiki Greg Vezina, I sue TV networks and I sue oil companies and I sued the Government of Canada using the constitution to challenge all government subsidies to oil, and what the government did, on the Federal Courthouse steps, was cancelled the National Energy Program.

But let me tell you, there’s more. There are environmentalists and private companies that are combining together, they’re going to bring a NAFTA claim against the United States and there are American companies that are going to use NAFTA – God bless Ronald Reagan – because NAFTA works.

So they’re not going to stop this, this is going to happen, and we won the softwood lumber case against the Americans. We didn’t get the whole 5 billion we asked them for - we got 4 and President Bush kept a billion for the election and Republican districts, but the bottom line is that you don’t tariffs our lumber anymore and the NAFTA dispute resolution process takes six months, there’s a decision, penalties are imposed. And the Methanex and the Ethyl Corp. cases that have been done by NAFTA were won on the environmental question. It was thought that NAFTA would allow you to threaten to feed rat poison to kids and get paid for not doing it, it isn’t how it works.

So the end of the day if you can put the environmentalists together with the green industries with the brown industries because now we got a way to make them green, the coal guys aren’t going to want you subsidizing oil. There it is.


12:58:50:00 HOST: Did you ever wonder that precise moment when you lost control?

VEZINA: Right now.

Vezina removes his hair tie, messes his hair. Audience Claps and disperses. Gary talks to Vezina 1 on 1.

GARY: You’re the man.

VEZINA: That you Gary. We’re going to have some fun.

GARY: You bet.

VEZINA: Yeah we’re going to really have some fun.

GARY: I know you will and I know you can. You know it takes sometimes a spirited person like yourself who’s got a brain and a vision to kind of crack everyone else loose and I think you’re doing it. We’re working on the safety side of this thing too.

VEZINA: Yeah I know you guys are and safety is my big gorilla, big brown gorilla. I’m scared. We were going to bring a car here and my lawyers and my insurance agencies advised me, “Vez you waited 25 years and if you take that car there and you have an accident or a spill you’re going to destroy the whole thing.” So we didn’t do it.

GERRY: Darn it.

[ashtweth]

Yep yep yep, using hydrogen blended with a tiny bit of nitrogen (Ammonia) for a fuel has been around since 1981.Greg Vezina calls his technology "hydro fuel". This technology is cleaner and cheaper then Petrol. Greg showed his car running on "hydrofuel" to the energy minister for the day back in 1981.

A news report stated that the minister took it for a spin and said he liked it, so did the governor general, all and all vezina thought he had a winner . Shortly after his appearance on parliament hill back in 1981, interest on his idea all but disappeared , Veszina speculates that this was a result of the government at owning Petro Canada.As of today in 2009 the technology is still not in use. Greg is still unable to get support for his technology over in Canada - Hydroxy Gas

[Aaron]

Ammonia Fuel

Nice work looking up all this, now how can we make the ammonia at the point of use? Now that is the best of all, a little water, air and a catalist.

Mike

Sucahyo, I was wondering when someone was going to start an ammonia
fuel thread. I actually already did but under different names.

Anyway, don't lose sight of the above quote.

[dave_cahoon]

Hi group,

Pg6 Transparent Tube with Expanded metal anode left side of page lower half.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...ne-fridman.pdf

Water Fog/Steam, and Air in, Nitrogenous fuel out.

Its called Gasification, Most people can only imagine Thermal Gasification.
Non-Thermal Plasma reactions are a whole new ball game in chemistry.

Electronics is HF HV. Many will find this part like a snake. But, if your careful
you wont get bit. (its as simple as a 555, FET and a coil) and using the
correct geometry of insulators and electrodes. AND maintaining the O2 levels
lower than what will complete combustion.

I can imagine a system that will plumb in where my geet reactor currently is.

Dave

[dave_cahoon]

Here is another application of the electronic effect.
Has some circuit diagrams.

http://alexandria.tue.nl/extra2/200412511.pdf

Think of this as educational if anything... its not a complete ammonia system.
Remember they are not feeding the reactor the same *stuff* we intend to process.

Dave

[dave_cahoon]

the whole search link

Google