An interesting windmill/generator design

[rickoff]

Hi folks,

A correspondent living in Greece, who became interested in my magnetic motor project, sent me a pdf document describing a windmill/generator which he has designed, built, and successfully tested. The unit is said to be very efficient, even in low winds. The design is simple, and many of the parts can be scavenged, making this a relatively low cost project. The generator portion is made from a discarded washing machine motor, for example. The pdf document is loaded with photos showing the building stages. As originally sent to me, the text was all in French and I could not understand any of it, so I asked Hans Hellas, the inventor, if he would please translate the text to English. He has done that, and I just received the translation. You can download the pdf file from my Windows Sky Drive at this link: Windmill.pdf - Windows Live

Note that you need to have Adobe Reader on your computer to view a pdf file. If you don't already have Adobe Reader, you can download it free at this website:
Adobe - Adobe Reader download - All versions

You can also preview the pdf contents in a picture "slide show" that is available at this website: Air

Look it over and see if you are interested in building one of these, and let me know if you have any questions that you would like me to ask Hans.

Best regards to all,

Rick

[Stealth]

wind turbine

I like the design. I have another one downloaded that is similar, a man in Australia built some years ago. It was used to pump water and run a generator in the outback, far away from the main roads and populace. He watered 2 acres of land in the desert and raised sheep and lived out thereby himself. It was simple, he cut steel drums in half and turned them back to back,attached to a shaft, to make a turbine. It was mounted on a four legged stand 20 feet high. He claimed a 3 MPH wind would keep it running. He used a rearend from an automobile to run the pump and turbine. All came from a junkyard, where he purchased for about $100. He bought a generator from an army surplus to power his house. Good Luck.. Stealth

[RAMSET]

Mag motor Idea

Have a look
Seems like Rickoff could utilize this magnet concept very nicely!

GAP Power, Magnetic Amplification & Neutralization.

Chet

[rickoff]

For what purpose, Chet?

[RAMSET]

Seems like the impossible

Hello Rick,

Art Porter is claiming some amazing results in that link.

"Magnetic Amplification/Neutralization"

5 Watts In yielding 100 watts work.

Magnetic Re-gauging?

When I saw this I thought of you. {something you should see].

Whether It is a reality or an illusion I suppose a few more weeks will tell.

Sorry for the interupt when I first saw this I thought it could be a Torque multiplier[good for a windmill application],Now I see it is much more.

Hope all is well with you and yours,

Chet

[SDK]

Hi folks,

A correspondent living in Greece, who became interested in my magnetic motor project, sent me a pdf document describing a windmill/generator which he has designed, built, and successfully tested. The unit is said to be very efficient, even in low winds. The design is simple, and many of the parts can be scavenged, making this a relatively low cost project. The generator portion is made from a discarded washing machine motor, for example. The pdf document is loaded with photos showing the building stages. As originally sent to me, the text was all in French and I could not understand any of it, so I asked Hans Hellas, the inventor, if he would please translate the text to English. He has done that, and I just received the translation. You can download the pdf file from my Windows Sky Drive at this link: Windmill.pdf - Windows Live

Note that you need to have Adobe Reader on your computer to view a pdf file. If you don't already have Adobe Reader, you can download it free at this website:
Adobe - Adobe Reader download - All versions

You can also preview the pdf contents in a picture "slide show" that is available at this website: Air

Look it over and see if you are interested in building one of these, and let me know if you have any questions that you would like me to ask Hans.

Best regards to all,

Rick

Hi Rick,

That windmill design is fairly close to what windmills should be built like. The big impeller ones are designed for in efficiency.

The split barel design is even better, but still not quite it from what I understand. It had the half barrel wings attached by one of their sides.

The best from the barrel can be gotten when the edges of the barrel overlap, so that what blows into the "cavity of one, which is into the wind by the cavity, blows further into the cavity of the drum, which has the belly into the wind. If it could be actually all twisted half turn, it would also run absolutely smoothly.

This design, as opposed to the contemporary windmills is to utilize the wind pressure, rather than velocity. It will indeed work at very slow wind speeds.

It is a shame that this design, which is as old as I can remember, and I am not all that young, is not utilized by the big power. It is also independent of the wind direction, so shifting winds will not affect it. To make it even better, if mounted on the corners of larger buildings, they would get the benefit of the accelerated air currents bypassing those buildings and wind pressure which accompanies the bypass.

My buck worth.

With kind regards, Slavek.

[1NRG24Seven]

Hi Rick,

I read the intire pdf file you posted and it stated the motor from this washing machine was 0-300V AC i presume before conversion and 2-3 amps total. Could I then assume we are talking about a wind generator capable of max 900 watts? Did not see any final specs as to the output power of a working wind machine at 5mph and up. Would be interested in knowing how much power is produced at just 5 mph with this design.


Thanx...24

[rickoff]

Hi 1nrg,

That would seem to be a correct assumption. According to Hans Hellas, who sent me the file, the capability of the unit to produce useful power output even at low wind speeds is mainly due to use of the "Smart Drive," which is discussed in the pdf. I haven't looked to see if there is any literature, or patent info available concerning the Smart Drive, but that would probably prove interesting if someone would care to delve into it further and let us know what they find. It probably works something along the lines of multi speed bicycle gearing, but automatically gearing up or down according to available wind speed. That's just my guess, as I am not sure.

Rick

[rickoff]

Hi Rick,

That windmill design is fairly close to what windmills should be built like. The big impeller ones are designed for in efficiency.

The split barel design is even better, but still not quite it from what I understand. It had the half barrel wings attached by one of their sides.

The best from the barrel can be gotten when the edges of the barrel overlap, so that what blows into the "cavity of one, which is into the wind by the cavity, blows further into the cavity of the drum, which has the belly into the wind. If it could be actually all twisted half turn, it would also run absolutely smoothly.

Hi Slavek,

Yes, it is similar to a split-barrel, or Savonius (S-rotor) design. I constructed several different S-rotor models, using tin cans, when the S-rotor design first came out many years ago. As you say, overlapping the halves slightly does give the best performance with that design, and I found that building in 3 tiers, staggered 120 degrees apart in layout, worked well. The curved bellies of each half section do let the wind flow over them without creating a lot of resistance to rotation advancement, but there definitely is still a considerable amount of resistance involved. The design shown to me by Hans Hellas appears to use a fabric material which would billow out when the wind is driving it, and then collapse or "feather" when it is facing into the wind, much as the sail on a sailboat. For that matter, I am thinking quite seriously about setting up a 10 to 20 foot diameter horizontal windmill platform at my cottage, and using four to six 10 foot tall "masts," and "booms," with sailcloth attached, to harness some potent windpower.


Rick

[1NRG24Seven]

I wish Rick I could find an article about my neighbor Bob Carlson of Portland Oregon who around 1977-9 built the worlds most effeciant wind turbine. It was based on a totally new concept never done before as there was no prior art in the patents showing anything quite like it. I went to the library to try and research it there as the article appeared to my recollection either Popular Mechanics or Popular Science and made the front cover with a pic of his prototype. The prototype and patents were to be paid for by Northwest Natural Gas Co. of Portland Oregon as per his contract and agreement with them for this grant. I am still unsure if he ever obtained the patents as per their agreement as after Northwest Natural Gas tested the prototype unit, they found it could produce 10,000 watts of power from a 5mph breeze. The Vice pres came to see him who was the gentleman who was instrumental in getting the grant for him and he explained to Bob if he held them to the contract in light of the findings he would lose his job, as Northwest Natural Gas did not fund projects that cut their throats in the energy field but funding projects to make them look good to the public. I found at the library on one of the two magizines had internet files of all past issues and articles...and it was not in that publication and the other had nothing available to research into the past with...don't recall now which publication I eliminated as being the one that would most likely be the one he made front cover news on. If you know how to reference the USPO (patents and trademarks) site Rick would be appreciated. His name is as listed in this post and location in the USA. I have no knowledge of anyone ever coming up with a more powerful design at a 16 foot wing span running on a vertical access like this machine here in this thread does...its vertical also. Bobs machine created lil or no resistance into the wind on one side and created sails on the other, creating great amounts of torque at low rpm and low wind speeds.

Thanx 24

[SDK]

If you know how to reference the USPO (patents and trademarks) site Rick would be appreciated. His name is as listed in this post and location in the USA.

Thanx 24[/QUOTE]

Hi 24,

I used to go direct to USPTO for whatever I was after. But it stinks. You have to buy a plugin "CP View" to see the pictures and any time there is a hardware change on your computer, you have to get a new code number. No good.

I have found out that typing "google patents" into the google search window will get you to no hassle google search much simpler and easier to use. Unfortunately, in the case you are describing, you even do not know if the patent, if any, may have been executed under the gas company name, or the inventor name. All you can do is give it a shot.

With kind regards, Slavek.

[SDK]

Hi Slavek,

Yes, it is similar to a split-barrel, or Savonius (S-rotor) design. I constructed several different S-rotor models, using tin cans, when the S-rotor design first came out many years ago. As you say, overlapping the halves slightly does give the best performance with that design, and I found that building in 3 tiers, staggered 120 degrees apart in layout, worked well. The curved bellies of each half section do let the wind flow over them without creating a lot of resistance to rotation advancement, but there definitely is still a considerable amount of resistance involved. The design shown to me by Hans Hellas appears to use a fabric material which would billow out when the wind is driving it, and then collapse or "feather" when it is facing into the wind, much as the sail on a sailboat. For that matter, I am thinking quite seriously about setting up a 10 to 20 foot diameter horizontal windmill platform at my cottage, and using four to six 10 foot tall "masts," and "booms," with sailcloth attached, to harness some potent windpower.


Rick

Hi Rick,

I have done some sailing years back on a sailboat my father built and do appreciate the importance of setting the sails to the best advantage in compliance with the wind direction and strength. I found out what all sailors find out, that driving the flow from one sail into another sail is by far more efficient that having both sails be driven by the wind on their own. I have also read volumes of books on the sailing theme. One memory stuck in my head is a notion of I believe Francis Chichester (not certain though) from one of his voyages, when he made an observation that some islanders in the Pacific used a system of sails which gave them much better performance than the Europian schooner system for comparable boat size and sail square footage.

I have actually wondered a bit about a "rug" turbine years back when this popped up on some discussion group, but never followed up. I pretty much dropped it because I would expect that a "rug" turbine would have relatively low lifespan. But meanwhile, the kevlar came up. It would dramatically change this drawback. It is an awesome material. For example. I run a lawn mower which used V belt drive for the deck. It was a horrible system which twisted the belt and often the belt would flip and run on the pulleys in all kinds of orientation, not engaged in the V grooves as appropriate. I went through 4-5 belts a season with standard V belts. Then I got hold of kevlar belts. One Kevlar belt lasted me two seasons. At barely twice the price of the ordinary belts, the kevlar belts proved to be one hell of a better product money vise.

BTW, I do not know of the origin of the overlapping S turbine, but it has been used on railway cars in Czech Republic predating WW2 for active ventilation, similar in function to the contemporary multi vane exhaust turbines made for ventilation of house attics.

If I come up with some interesting idea on the "rug" turbine, I will post it.

I would agree that a two, three or more tier offset S turbine would facilitate the stabilization of rotation, but a twisting turbine would also give the advantage of an opportunity to finish one end, either the top, or the bottom in curved caps, giving it further push.

With kind regards, Slavek.

[blackchisel97]

Another idea

Hello guys,

This is something different, just a thought I had few years ago. Never tried or tested. I have no experience in wind generation field whatsoever. Maybe it makes sense maybe it doesn't. I'll leave it for you to decide and do whatever you want with it. There is an air inlet at the bottom, below generator part and top outlet with blades/fins as in the jet turbine. Inner rotor part fins are angled and helical. Generator setup doesn't have to be as pictured. It could be belt driven and beside the main unit, not under. Outer drum is black. My idea was to create an additional vertical air "lift" due to the temperature, thus bottom and top blades as well as black color.



Vtech

[Stealth]

This would work similar to the pyramid solar turbine I posted a while back. The biggest difference is that in a pyramid or cone shape, the air presure would build and exit at a smaller hole at the top. Your turbine would be mounted on top of the structure. There would be less air escaping, but it would have a higher pressure. I t would work as a solar turbine or wind turbine, as wind would be blown and or sucked into it, depending on which was the stronger force. I am in the process of building a tabletop model to test this theory, but it seems to be sound. Good Luck. Stealth

[blackchisel97]

Thanks Stealth, When I had this thought, I was picturing the turbine on the roof top, where would be additional radiant heat reflected off the roof. Main thing for me was resistance to the gale wind, omnidirectional performance and safety - lack of exterior moving components (keeping our winged friends in mind).


VTech