Francisco PACHECO Hydrogen Generator

[everwiser]

Have you done the test with aluminum and magnesium in a steel chamber? I'm wondering if the reaction and/or voltage/current would be higher. Great job!

[Jetijs]

Have not tried the aluminum in combination with magnesium yet, just magnesium and steel. Also this steel is ordinary steel, not stainless steel. I will now make the test with an external power supply to see if I can "help" the cell to generate more gas and if this is practical.

[Jetijs]

So here is a quick update.
At first I connected the cell the usual way. After a half an hour or so I disconnected the wire and let the process end. There is some white stuff in the water, I guess that these are the magnesium oxire particles or whatever is left when magnesium is consumed. After a while this white stuff settles down on the bottom of the cell. The same is happening if also aluminum is used. It looks like this:



Then I tried to "help" the cell with an external power source. If I connect the + of the power supply to the positive terminal of the cell (the steel pipe) and the negative terminal to the negative of the cell (the magnesium rod), I need to turn the voltage up till it is bigger than the generated voltage of the cell, around 0.7V, then the reaction starts. The more I turn the voltage up, the more amps are flowing and more gas is produced, for example, at 2V the current is about 2.5A, but that depends on the electrolyte concentration. I went up to 10A max, and lots of gas is produced, but the thing is that a lot of green residue is also produced and it turns brown like rust when in contact with air. These are the iron particles from the steel and this means that steel is being eaten away. Here is the picture:



I had this problem when I experimented with joecells way back and used salt as electrolyte. Lots and lots of sludge was produced and the steel is being consumed. Also I guess some chlorine gas is produced as well. Here is a picture from experiments back then:





Somewhere under all that scum are several concentric steel tubes with current flowing through them

[citfta]

Reversed process

Hi Jetijs,

I think when you connected the power supply that way and upped the voltage to overcome the voltage from the cell what you did was to reverse the chemical reaction. That is why the steel is being eaten away instead of the aluminum or magnesium. Possibly a chemist who is reading this could tell us what the gas is that is being produced because I have no idea. I think if you hooked up the power supply the other way with positive to negative and vice versa you could then increase the reaction you want. I assume the power supply is current protected in case the reaction tries to run away. Or at least keep your hand near the off switch. I don't want to see any more fires at your place.

Keep up the great work, you are an inspiration to the rest of us, Carroll

[Jetijs]

I forgot to mention that if I reverse the external power supply leads, be it a power supply or a battery, there is still gas produced, but the green sludge is produced much faster even at very low current. I guess that this is because the current path is reversed and now the steel is the cathode and gets eaten away faster.

[Slovenia]

Good Job Jetijs

So here is a quick update.
At first I connected the cell the usual way. After a half an hour or so I disconnected the wire and let the process end. There is some white stuff in the water, I guess that these are the magnesium oxire particles or whatever is left when magnesium is consumed. After a while this white stuff settles down on the bottom of the cell. The same is happening if also aluminum is used. It looks like this:



Then I tried to "help" the cell with an external power source. If I connect the + of the power supply to the positive terminal of the cell (the steel pipe) and the negative terminal to the negative of the cell (the magnesium rod), I need to turn the voltage up till it is bigger than the generated voltage of the cell, around 0.7V, then the reaction starts. The more I turn the voltage up, the more amps are flowing and more gas is produced, for example, at 2V the current is about 2.5A, but that depends on the electrolyte concentration. I went up to 10A max, and lots of gas is produced, but the thing is that a lot of green residue is also produced and it turns brown like rust when in contact with air. These are the iron particles from the steel and this means that steel is being eaten away. Here is the picture:



I had this problem when I experimented with joecells way back and used salt as electrolyte. Lots and lots of sludge was produced and the steel is being consumed. Also I guess some chlorine gas is produced as well. Here is a picture from experiments back then:





Somewhere under all that scum are several concentric steel tubes with current flowing through them

Jetijs,

Pacheco used a pump and filter to circulate the water and keep the mud and gunk in the cell from building up and making his cell less effective. He determined later that if he didn't remove the crud from the water that the cell soon became much less active. When he filtered the water and circulated it around the cell stayed very much active.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[dambit]

Hi Jetijs,

Good work on the tests.

This just confirms for me that the reaction is purely a chemical one and no external electricity is required. It also confirmed for me that doing so has a negative impact on the steel. I always thought it might.

I believe that if we simply go for greater surface area on the plates and the correct ratio of anode vs cathode, the gas output we are all after is attainable.

Cheers,

Steve

[Jetijs]

Sure, I have yet to see if several cells in series give more than several times the gas output, if the output with each cell in series multiplies the gas output more than 1x, then I have no doubt that this can easily be used to power an engine.
Slovenia, thanks for the filter tip. I can confirm, that the reaction gets less active if the water is full of gunk. I wonder what a solution could be used to filter the gung out so that you don't have to change the filters every hour?

[Slovenia]

Sediment Tank

Sure, I have yet to see if several cells in series give more than several times the gas output, if the output with each cell in series multiplies the gas output more than 1x, then I have no doubt that this can easily be used to power an engine.
Slovenia, thanks for the filter tip. I can confirm, that the reaction gets less active if the water is full of gunk. I wonder what a solution could be used to filter the gung out so that you don't have to change the filters every hour?

What I would suggest is a sediment settling tank scenario. Pump the water out of the bottom of the cell and then transfer it into an upright sediment settling tank. I would use a 3 inch X 9 inch pvc tube in a vertical configuration. I'd have an inlet and outlet on the sediment tank located toward the top of the tank so as not to disturb the settling of gunk and such in the tank which will also help keep from clogging the outlet port from the sediment tank. I'd place my pump on the return side between the sediment tank outlet and the cell. I'd have my return water line coming in toward the top of the cell. I'd have a one way valve on both outgoing and incoming water lines.

Filter Scenario:
I'd place my filter on the inside of the sediment tank at the outlet point. I'd use five layers of folded nylon screen as my filter mesh. This will allow for easy cleaning and also limited restriction of flow.

[Slovenia]

Sediment Tank Cleaning

I'd have a screw on cap and base so as to afford easy cleaning of the sediment tank. It may need to be cleaned fairly often so the design needs to be easy access.

[Slovenia]

Sediment Tank Drawing

[Slovenia]

Water Pumps

Two water pumps may be necessary to make sure the proper pressure is maintained within the water filtering assembly.

[Slovenia]

Clean Cell

I think for the pump and filter system to do their best job it will be necessary to start out with no gunk in the cell or just traces of it. So, before incorporating your sediment storage device and pump system I'd recommend removing as much gunk and crap from the cell as possible so that it's fairly clean water. This will make it much easier for the pump and recirculating tubes to do their job. I think I'd also use 3/4" to 1" pvc pipe for my sediment tank piping. The larger diameter of piping will help reduce clogging of the line.

[everwiser]

Just thinking out loud...

You should experiment with salt content. Is there a level whereby output is still good but with less gunk creation/buildup? In addition, less might make your available voltage (when using as a battery) higher as there will be less of a "short" between cells.

[Jetijs]

Slovenia, thanks for the filtering tip
I am thinking of building the assembly like this:



Or this:



The second setup allows me to put a pump and a filter in between those two bottom T pieces, but I don't know if this will work good, because since the gas bubbles up, these bubbles might keep also all the gunk upside the cell when it is running, because the gunk is so fine, it is like a suspension and it takes a while to settle down. A better way would be to fully circulate all the water from the cell, might be that the filtering of the lower part only does nothing good. Anyway, this will be just the first test and this is just what I can throw together very fast. If there will be a potential to this thing, then I can build a better cell.
Those magnesium rods are 20mm in diameter and 200mm long. Cost about 5$ a piece. I will bolt them to the upper caps of the vertical pipes and I will also bolt a stainless steel tube to the same cap so that the electrodes can be remover easily.

Thanks,
Jetijs