Closed Loop Freon Generator

[Aaron]

ammonia refrigerator

Otto Mohr made an ammonia closed loop refrigerator way back:
Refrigerator Uses Solar Energy

Modern day type of concept:
Solar powered ice maker - Hack a Day

Ammonia is probably easier and safer than freon.

[Slovenia]

Thanks

Otto Mohr made an ammonia closed loop refrigerator way back:
Refrigerator Uses Solar Energy

Modern day type of concept:
Solar powered ice maker - Hack a Day

Ammonia is probably easier and safer than freon.

Thanks Aaron.

[Karl_Palsness]

I spent several years building that type of system to spin up a turbine from the refrigerant gas flow between two heat sources. The system works great I was moving about 1 M BTU/ hr and spinning a micro turbine that could produced 150 KW on ideal days. There are several companies out there that are doing this. This is not new if you Google OTEC that is one of may ways to do this. There are many geothermal plants that use a closed looped system also. I have seen several Solar systems installed and my favorite is the Israeli salt pond systems. The biggest problem is the heat exchangers not the turbine...I spent a ton of money on that! The turbine is the easy part as it turned out. You can buy them off the shelf and use an blower in reverse and use the blower motor as an induction generator. This is a great system but you better have a good source for the heat exchangers and you should use bigger ones not smaller ones as you will limit the operating temp.

Karl

[Slovenia]

Thanks

I spent several years building that type of system to spin up a turbine from the refrigerant gas flow between two heat sources. The system works great I was moving about 1 M BTU/ hr and spinning a micro turbine that could produced 150 KW on ideal days. There are several companies out there that are doing this. This is not new if you Google OTEC that is one of may ways to do this. There are many geothermal plants that use a closed looped system also. I have seen several Solar systems installed and my favorite is the Israeli salt pond systems. The biggest problem is the heat exchangers not the turbine...I spent a ton of money on that! The turbine is the easy part as it turned out. You can buy them off the shelf and use an blower in reverse and use the blower motor as an induction generator. This is a great system but you better have a good source for the heat exchangers and you should use bigger ones not smaller ones as you will limit the operating temp.

Karl

Hi Karl,

Thanks for sharing the information.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[kapierenundkopieren]

Hi guys! Hope you are still around. Im a new member here, but familiar with this forum for about two years now.
This kind of systems are interesting and the principles involved are simple, not to mention that COP more than one can be achieved. I wonder why i don't see more info on the net about this.

@Karl_Palsness
It would be good to know more about your system, details and so on.

I was thinking about upgrading a solar water heating system, so that it would be more efficient and maybe getting some electricity out of it too.

I'll just drop by two related videos:
YouTube - Dennis Lee Heat Pump.flv
YouTube - Window air conditioner used to heat water and save energy. DIY HYBRID water heater!

I was hoping to get some info from others that has built such systems.

Dann

[Mark]

It's been a couple of years but I used to work on Automotive AC systems. The high side pressure runs around 350psi and I've seen some system that were overcharged go as high as 500psi. The problem that I see is that you will need some kind of compressor which, will take power to run. I think it takes around 5 horse power or more to drive an automotive compressor. I need to go back and do a little reading but I DON'T believe this could be a self runner.

@ Mathew the name your thinking of is called and expansion valve (used in Chrysler products) or an oriface tube (used in GM and Fords).

Freon at ambient temperature under pressure is a liquid. When the liquid is released to ambient pressure it turns to a gas. Just like propane. By the way I DO NOT RECOMMEND using propane. Propane works very good in AC systems but is highly explosive. When the old R12 Freon got as high as $50.00 per pound back in the 1990's some repair shops were using propane with explosive results if there was a leak in the system and you had a bad spark plug wire.

I still have a 30lb tank of R134a out in the garage that could be put to use if after doing a little research I find I am mistaken.

[kapierenundkopieren]

Hi Mark! Well i'm not an AC expert, but according to the second video above the system runs OU. It's a 5300 BTU/h AC that puts out 7500 BTU/h... so it's a COP of about 1.4 ...but it's also true that the guy doesen't have a watt meter on the thing, so we can't be sure and someone should do a test like this.

If anyone has a clue about how is a rating of an AC related to power consumption please share it here.

I think that by exposing the evaporator to the sun there should be a power gain, but how much more would the compressor consume?

Dann

[Khwartz]

For those who like me coming on this old thread after a google search, here the answers:

The compressor takes approximately a quarter of the heat power harvested by the evaporator.

So it is quite normal that the "COP" will be "overunity", but what I see near everywhere because very few are AC specialists, even among scientists, between this overunity COP and an supposed PHYSICAL EFFICIENCY:

- HEAT PUMPS ARE NOT physical efficiency overunities! Far to be! lol there are many wastes in between and classic "laws" of energy conservation applies.

Saying this, and knowing a COP is:

- THE RATIO BETWEEN THE USABLE POWER AND THE COSTLY POWER,

one may go on for better and SELFRUNNING SYSTEMS.

Indeed: take a heat pump and power it with a solar panel and it selfruns!...

By the way: solar panels, wind turbines, are example of INFINITE COP

Cheers, Khwartz.
Electrician and AC engineering trained

[Duncan]

perhaps this video will be on subject
Videos: Energy from the Vacuum series - PESWiki

[john_g]

Hi All

I recall a few years ago, a post around Christmas time, by a person who was a student from MIT? He showed a closed loop heat pump arrangement, I think he was using butane gas - I haven't managed to find the post but he had at least one video posted up.

Regards

John

[Duncan]

This copy and paste... taken from this web page
History Of 'New Energy' Invention Suppression Cases

Dennis Lee: Freon Engines

Dennis Lee during the mid-1980's invented a freon-based low-temperature phase-change engine similar to Bob Stewart's heat engine. The father of the Boeing 747 and other highly qualified people helped Dennis perfect his engine. A small plant was established in Seattle to produce and sell a commercial home-scale electrical generator. A Seattle area power company (the same one which became infamous for its WHOOPS nuclear plants) campaigned to shut down the plant. Even a girl employee was murdered.

Dennis was forced to move his company to Southern California to start over. He was subsequently imprisoned on a false charge for two years. His book "The Alternative" documents the falsity of the charge.

Dennis spoke nonstop for three hours during the International Tesla Society's symposium July 1996(?). However, he was refused an opportunity to speak at the symposium itself. Lee made an impassioned presentation of about eight engines for different purposes which were displayed on the stage. He also formally announced that his company which he had to hibernate while in jail and since then is now back in business.

An interesting claim he made was that freon has been scientifically determined to be not destructive of the earth's atmospheric ozone layer. He said that the secret group which had been suppressing clean energy inventions is so afraid of his inventions that they had cleverly arranged a ban on freon refrigerant in air conditioners, etc., in order to stop him.

By the way, his wife was so supportive during his ordeal it should be considered an honor to meet her some day.

I, Gary Vesperman, has also heard that Dennis Lee's claims could stand additional verification by an independent laboratory. Mr. Lee is frequently accused of making misleading if not false claims concerning the energy inventions that he demonstrates and displays at his road shows. A few years ago I attended one of his road shows here in Las Vegas. I thought Lee's claim about Joe Newman's rotating electrical generator was misleading. Lee had multiplied the machine's output peak voltage and peak current to arrive at the output power instead of multiplying the machine's true average voltage and true average current.
PS .. Dennis can be seen demonstrating and explaining the system from 1H10min
onwards on this video
Free and Zero Point Energy from Tesla to Dennis Lee - YouTube knowing your skills .. tracking & tracing should be enough names ect here

[tachyon]

Einstein refrigerator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Duncan]

extract from the Australian "free energy" mag Nexus for your inspection
http://www.newciv.org/whole/energycoverup.txt
land of the what? as for Dr Ficher's heat engine Slovenia which Dennis tells us is a vital part of the equasion here is the start of a lead into that theory
FISCHER ENERGY, INC
& on the down side...
Dennis Lee's free electricity claims

[Duncan]

further to

So .. Basically any researcher is going to be dis-credited, dragged through the courts. Certainly proclaimed a scam merchant .. that’s just standard steps one two and three. If nothing else it certainly puts the brakes on development … and cuts any finance. It even worked with Rife!
And deeply religious men like Mayer for instance .

Opie & Anthony: Stan Meyer's Water Car - YouTube

You will see that Dennis formed a partnership with Paul Pantone, He's mouldering in an asylum .. no court case needed for that, much more convenient.

Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Inventor Paul Pantone Rotting in Mental Ward!

So it goes … on and on does it really matter who invents what whilst we all .. let the real lunatics drive our bus?

[DaS Energy]

Closed loop generator

1812 saw the Royal navy trial closed loop Ammonia. Air-Sea. However coal crashed to a penny a pound seeing off the conversion. British trams of the same period ran a closed loop Ammonia engine.

CO2/R744 provides most force to heat. Commercial in closed loop configuration where the gas is brought to high pressure in a boiler +100*C 10,000 bar pressure and brought back into the boiler at 32*C using a vacuum/compressor.

Lowest heat side is -38*C leaving the return temperature -39^C.

Comparative to Steam. Steam at +600*C is 200 bar pressure used to drive 350 megawatt turbines. Steam cease any further at +100*C.

The attached can be home built or machine shopped.

Basic fridge physics used in mechanical energy conversion.