My proposed explanation for the great pyramids.

[digitz]

HairBear: i've read the lost book of enki few days ago because of this thread, definitly a must !

Here are 2 interesting videos related to pyramids, energy and other stuff discussed here:

YouTube - The Holy Grail Vortex - Haarp and Egyptian Levitation Part 6 of 9

YouTube - The Physics of Crystals

[sucahyo]

From Christoper Dunn's Giza power plant:
Advanced Machining in Ancient Egypt

I have contacted four precision granite manufacturers in the US and haven’t been able to find one who can do this kind of work. With Eric Leither of Tru-Stone Corp, I discussed in a letter the technical feasibility of creating several Egyptian artifacts, including the giant granite boxes found in the bedrock tunnels the temple of Serapeum at Saqqarra. He responded as follows:

"Dear Christopher,

First I would like to thank you for providing me with all the fascinating information. Most people never get the opportunity to take part in something like this. You mentioned to me that the box was derived from one solid block of granite. A piece of granite of that size is estimated to weigh 200,000 pounds if it was Sierra White granite which weighs approximately 175 lb. per cubic foot. If a piece of that size was available, the cost would be enormous. Just the raw piece of rock would cost somewhere in the area of $115,000.00. This price does not include cutting the block to size or any freight charges. The next obvious problem would be the transportation. There would be many special permits issued by the D.O.T. and would cost thousands of dollars. From the information that I gathered from your fax, the Egyptians moved this piece of granite nearly 500 miles. That is an incredible achievement for a society that existed hundreds of years ago."

Eric went on to say that his company did not have the equipment or capabilities to produce the boxes in this manner. He said that his company would create the boxes in 5 pieces, ship them to the customer and bolt them together on site.

[sucahyo]

Another explanation, geopolymer, made the stone block using giant mold from clay polymer.

Chris Dunn wrongly believes he has disproved the geopolymer stone theory. Chris Dunn writes,

"I read about the poured rock theory in 1986. I thought at that time that there might have been something to it. That is until I actually began looking at the evidence. The poured stone theory does not explain all the artifacts in Egypt. To know this, all you have to do is look at the evidence with an understanding of how materials are poured, shaped and cut. If we look at the artifacts I describe in my book, and allow that they were made by pouring cement, or any other mixture that sets and hardens, there is one inescapable consideration that has to be made. The mold or form that is used needs to have the same shape as the final object. With respect to the contoured granite blocks on the Giza Plateau, these molds would need to be machined to a high precision. Considering, also, that the blocks are extremely heavy, weighing more than 6 tons in some cases, the form would need to be robust and able to withstand the pressures against their surfaces. A weak form, such as one made out of wood, would buckle under the weight and the precision would be lost. So what were the forms made of-and how were they created with such precise surfaces? Certainly not with primitive tools."

Margaret Morris replies to Chris Dunn: Again, we see Dunn's arguments arise from his misconception that the pyramid blocks had to be poured. It is true that Dr. Joseph Davidovits initially believed that pyramid blocks were cast into molds. The reason is that evidence shows that the blocks of Egypt's first pyramid, built for Pharaoh Zoser of the 3rd Dynasty, were cast into mud-brick molds. Consider the statement below by Dr. Dieter Arnold, of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Arnold's book, "Building in Egypt" (1991), is the most up-to-date Egyptological standard. Arnold writes:

'The blocks were small, and the stones were square and brick-shaped."

Dr. Davidovits continued to consider that the pyramid blocks were made in wooden molds after geologists found the impression of wood grain on the Lauer sample from the interior of the Great Pyramid. For instance, geologist Robert G. McKinney commented about the artificial nature of pyramid stone after I provided him with the Lauer sample (from the Ascending Passageway of the Great Pyramid and donated by Egyptologist J.P. Lauer) to examine:

"This is a very strange rock indeed, and does not exhibit properties which one normally sees together in a sedimentary rock...The rock underneath the coating exhibits a texture that is definitely wood grain."

After further study of the pyramid blocks, Dr. Davidovits changed his mind about the use of molds and began to consider that the blocks were built up like adobe, Egypt's oldest building material. This is possible because of the high early strength of geopolymerized rock. More details appear in my book, "The Egyptian Pyramid Mystery Is Solved!"
...
Chris Dunn adds, "Morris claims that the stone "can be shaped to perfection with primitive tools while still in the soft stage of setting." However, she doesn't describe the means necessary to guide the tool and produce a three-dimensional contour with a precision of .005 inch."

Margaret replies to Chris Dunn: If Dunn is alluding to the tight fit of the casing blocks, which fit as close as 1/800th of an inch or in perfect contact (see Petrie, "Pyramids and Temples of Gizeh," 1883), then Chris Dunn ignores the precision jointing that can be achieved when geopolymerized stone is packed against another geopolymerized stone that has set. With geopolymerization, there is very little shrinkage, so that the precision jointing is achieved. In fact, geopolymerization is the only logical explanation for the remarkable way casing blocks conform to each other (and to irregular blocks behind them), on all touching surfaces.

Chris Dunn tries to argue that his studies of measurements prove the existence of high technology. But logic and a great wealth of archaeological evidence tell us that advanced machine tools did not exist. To understand this, take a look at what Chris Dunn is asking us to believe. Chris Dunn proposes that all traces of machine tools disappeared from the Earth in a great cataclysm. This, Chris Dunn claims, is why there are no physical traces of machines, and no writings or drawings.

Hard stone artifacts like diorite vases appeared in Neolithic times (c. 7000 B.C.) and museums exhibit diorite items dating to the 26th Dynasty, i.e., the manufacture of hard stone items of the type Chris Dunn takes issue with range over several thousand years. Many items are inscribed, so there is no question about the periods they date to. For Chris Dunn's advanced machining theory to hold, machine tools would have to have been in use for several thousand years.

How can anyone believe that all physical traces of thousands of years worth of machines, and all traces of writings and drawings of these machines, disappeared without a trace? Using pliable stone eliminated the worst problems of shaping rock precisely. There is a great wealth of ancient documents that would have described or depicted Chris Dunn's machines if they existed. How can we believe that these machines were used in conjunction with the primitive tools we know existed? No great cataclysm spanned the long ages when hard stone artifacts of the type Chris Dunn takes issue with were made.

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Rick and sucahyo;

Some links for you on how the Egyptians did it;

Building in ancient Egypt

Obelisk building technology in ancient Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently some people are confusing dolomite with diorite, which is what the Egyptians used.

Diorite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NOVA Online | Mysteries of the Nile

NOVA Online | Mysteries of the Nile | March 25, 1999: Angle of Repose

obelisk ancient egypt - Google Search

YouTube - The Unfinished Obelisk, Aswan Egypt

Sorry; again, all I have time for tonight.

Al

[Jbignes5]

Hi Rick and sucahyo;

Some links for you on how the Egyptians did it;

Building in ancient Egypt

Obelisk building technology in ancient Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently some people are confusing dolomite with diorite, which is what the Egyptians used.

Diorite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NOVA Online | Mysteries of the Nile

NOVA Online | Mysteries of the Nile | March 25, 1999: Angle of Repose

obelisk ancient egypt - Google Search

YouTube - The Unfinished Obelisk, Aswan Egypt

Sorry; again, all I have time for tonight.

Al

You still don't understand do you? The Egyptians didn't do it. They can try to take credit for it but the only thing they did in my opinion was record what their society did. To tell you the truth most of what they wrote on the walls was about their lives. Nothing was written about the building of the Great Pyramids. Yeah they tried to make stuff like it but fell way short of completing anything to the degree that was done in the pyramids.
Yes they had tid bits that were put on the walls but nothing that could be explained by them. Hence the reason we are having a hard time explaining it ourselves. But if you look back to the days before the Egyptian society you start to understand where it all came from. You see that the "Gods" they talked about are in fact visitors here. They were not "Gods" only the ones who knew more. You start to understand that we were enhanced by another civilization that knew way more then we did at that time.
I am by no means saying that everything was made by them but these Pyramids show an uncanny form of technology that just doesn't make sense in that time period. When you educate yourself and stop grasping at the impossible you start to understand where it all came from. When you take the "gods" (the word) out of the picture you start to see the source of this enlightenment.
The fact is we have proof and yet you and other refuse to look at it. The fact that the bible is not what it appears to be but is a retelling of the records that are from many many years before the source we used. Those proofs are written in stone so to speak and no one can refute it. You either see the truth or keep on misleading yourself into believing something that has no explanation. There are a great many things in our world that have no clear explanation yet this area has that explanation written. Why guess about it?

[Jbignes5]

more proof

YouTube - Search for Planet X - (Part 1)

Watch the whole series and you will see the truth when comparing what they (Sumerians) knew and what we know as fact today. There is no way we could have made this up. It is written in stone.

[Altair]

Rickoff & jbignes5,
I applaud your perseverance and you patience in trying to instill a bit of common sense in ANTIQUER, but obviously it's sadly wasted time on him.
I wouldn't have had a tenth of the patience you guys have.

I totally agree with what you're saying. I think most people can't realize the enormity or trying to carve, carry and install just ONE of those blocks some 3 or 4 hundred feet up on a "sloped ramp"

Just the shaping of some stones that happened to be the ones around the shafts in the structure HAD to be computer-assisted. They had to be precisely cut to integrate the shape of the small shafts, and we have all seen the weird angle at which these shafts are , relative to the rest of the structure.
Talk about a gigantic 3D puzzle !

And how could a human being could, manually with hand tools, polish the inside & outside of the large coffer to a mirror finish, and within a tolerance of just a few thousands in planarity AND in perpendicularity ?

Enough said.

[sucahyo]

Building in ancient Egypt

explain that the builder use detailed plan, but do not explain how the granite are cut/carved. Diorite hammerstones mentioned as tool to carve fresh limestone, not the granite.

Obelisk building technology in ancient Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do not explain how the granite artifact have such precission and sharpness. No proof that it can be done now. Unfinished work is assumed as a will be obelisk.

Notice how crazily similar dent on the cliff, that is not normal:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...uilding_03.jpg

NOVA Online | Mysteries of the Nile | March 25, 1999: Angle of Repose

Mention the need of high tech too.

This link give the human required but not the precision.
NOVA Online/Pyramids/Who Built the Pyramids?

[rickoff]

Apparently some people are confusing dolomite with diorite, which is what the Egyptians used.

I'm not confused, Al. My reference to dolomite came directly from a link that you provided, which stated, "....pounded the obelisk out of the stone with 10-pound hammers made of a harder stone called dolomite."
The link was: Saudi Aramco World : A Forest of Obelisks

And as I pointed out, that article was incorrect because dolomite has a lower mohs hardness rating (3.5 to 4 mohs) than red granite (7 mohs). The Egyptians may have used diorite for some purposes, such as statuary and ornamental pieces, but not for constructing the red granite components of the Great Pyramid. Diorite is hard, (5.5 to 6 mohs) but not as hard as red granite. And diorite is formed from several minerals, some of which have a mohs rating as low as 3, so it just wouldn't have held up for working red granite. See this link:
MFA Boston: Material Record

I checked out your Wikipedia link for Obelisk Building Technology, and see nothing but speculation there concerning diorite. They are suggesting that diorite balls, such as the one held by the modern Egyptian in the photo, could have carved out the granite obelisks. That would certainly take a lot of time, and a lot of balls, and then you would only have a crudely shaped item. Concerning the Unfinished Obelisk, perhaps the "unsuccessful atempts.. to salvage some of the effort by carving a smaller obelisk from it," actually was the work of the Egyptians. As the article further states, "it is only crudely carved, marks are left which hint to the technology employed in its extraction." Hints are not sureties, and the precision made red granite components of the Great Pyramid certainly weren't cut with diorite balls.

Have you figured out how the red granite coffer in the Great Pyramid was sawn and drilled to perfection? That's a tough one, isn't it? Definitely not with diorite saw teeth or diorite tipped drills, I would have to say.

Rick

[ANTIQUER]

Altair;

I applaud your perseverance and you patience in trying to instill a bit of common sense in ANTIQUER, but obviously it's sadly wasted time on him.
I wouldn't have had a tenth of the patience you guys have.

That works both ways. But among reasonable people discussing differences of opinion that's how it should work.

I think most people can't realize the enormity of trying to carve, carry and install...

And this is the problem I mentioned earlier. Many people think we can't do this kind of thing without computers and heavy construction equipment because that's how we do it now, and many of them have no hands-on experience in any related field such as construction. But there is ample evidence the Egyptians did it (and others like the Incas, Mayans, et al) to those who wish to listen to facts and not theories which have, at best, little supportable evidence.

And how could a human being could, manually with hand tools, polish the inside & outside of the large coffer to a mirror finish, and within a tolerance of just a few thousands in planarity AND in perpendicularity ?

The same way we do it today, water and abrasives;straight edges and squares. They just used hand power for rubbing, cutting, etc. where as we use machines.
As an example of this when the first large tracking cameras for the shuttle program were built, the lenses were made by a company affiliated with K & E where I worked. The lenses were polished by hand to tolerance of .001 mil. by hand on a curved surface. I believe the Hubble lenses were polished the same way, but to one millionth of an inch.

Also, you can buy kits on many antique sites containing the abrasives, etc. to restore and polish marble by hand. I have done it in my restoration work.

Please watch the 7 links I posted yesterday closely. They show how most of the stonework was accomplished. There is one obelisk in particular that was abandoned due to a flaw that was discovered after much work had been done. The evidence of how they cut this monster out and the techniques they used to begin finishing the surface are still there for all to see. I think it's one or both of the Nova links.


While we don't have construction plans or details of how they built the pyramids, a lack of these does not constitute proof the Egyptians did not do it.
If you have some that has not been presented I and others would be glad to see it. If not we can all hope more archeological expeditions will reveal some.Then it can be put to the test by the scientific community using common sense and real tests for validity and meaning which have proven reliable, not theories and speculation.

Al

[rickoff]

Rickoff & jbignes5,
I applaud your perseverance and you patience in trying to instill a bit of common sense in ANTIQUER, but obviously it's sadly wasted time on him.
I wouldn't have had a tenth of the patience you guys have.

Actually, Al (Antiquer) and I are very respectful of each other, and we do agree on a great many things. It would be a dull world if we all agreed on everything, right? I'm happy just to agree to disagree with Al on the subject of the Great Pyramid, and I'm sure you won't see us sinking to name calling and personal jabs. Actually, I rather enjoy a good debate and welcome it as it helps to keep me on my toes and to learn things in the process. I'm sure that Al feels the same way. I could just as well switch my arguments the other way around, and probably find some reasonable theories to back that up, but I kind of enjoy playing devil's advocate sometimes (taking the unpopular position). A few years ago I was selected as a jury foreman, and after the first few hours of testimony I was shocked to see that several of the jurors already seemed to have their minds made up that the defendant was guilty. I reminded them that we must assume that the defendant is innocent until and unless he is proven guilty, and that we had not been shown any proof of that. I asked two of the jurors who had the strongest opinions of guilt to go along with an experiment and to come back the next day prepared to take the position that, and offer reasons why, the defendant could be innocent. They agreed to go along with that for a day, and they actually did a great job of it. Long before the end of the trial, which lasted several days, those two jurors became, and remained, the defendant's strongest advocates. The trial ended with all the jurors on friendly terms, but agreeing to disagree on guilt or innocence, and not reach a verdict, and everyone was happy with that. Similarly, while we could go on and on here in debating how the Great Pyramid was built, and offer hundreds of links to support any number of theories, we will just have to respect each other's opinions and agree that no one knows the answer with absolute certainty. So I won't be saying much of anything more about this subject, and need to devote more of my time to my Pipe Dream and Ruling Class threads anyways. But it's been fun, and I probably will continue to peek in here from time to time and perhaps spur things on with some food for thought.

Best regards to everyone,

Rick

[sucahyo]

As an example of this when the first large tracking cameras for the shuttle program were built, the lenses were made by a company affiliated with K & E where I worked. The lenses were polished by hand to tolerance of .001 mil. by hand on a curved surface. I believe the Hubble lenses were polished the same way, but to one millionth of an inch.

They don't use copper tool to polish them.

If you believe jet lee can jump to the roof then on several level higher than that there is skill to cut rock with swords. Datmo, shaolin first teacher is from around India, and Andcient India has skill as good as Egypt. That's my theory.

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Rick;

I did not mean you were confused (perish the thought! lol). I meant some of the people writing some of the info. I read were confused between diorite and dolomite.

Hints are not sureties, and the precision made red granite components of the Great Pyramid certainly weren't cut with diorite balls.

Have you figured out how the red granite coffer in the Great Pyramid was sawn and drilled to perfection? That's a tough one, isn't it? Definitely not with diorite saw teeth or diorite tipped drills, I would have to say.

Not as tough as doing the actual work. The nova links showed how they could have drilled the granite and sawn it. Maybe that's not proof to a %100 surety, but it certainly is a great theory proven by demonstration.
I believe they would have quarried and polished the red granite coffer in the same manner, drilling a series of holes to remove the inner core material, then heating and cooling to flake off larger chunks left between the holes, and then polishing the sides and bottom.
I have more sites to post, I just keep running out of time, which I currently have in limited supply.
Here's one;

There was also a large amount of fine wall-sculpture in red granite; and the space where the masons wrought this stone lay on the north of the temple where the ground is still covered with granite chips and dust, and strewn with broken hammers of horn stone.

More evidence that they could quarry and work on red granite. Article here;

Egyptological texts
Additionally they used red granite extensively around the area of the Temple at Karnak, including dozens of red granite obelisks, many with the name of the pharaoh who erected them engraved on them, at least one had the amount of time it took to make it written on it.

I have some questions for you. If aliens gave this tech. to Egyptians or Sumerians, why didn't they give them better tools to do the job? Surely they didn't come back every now and then and do it themselves over several thousand years? And if so why no mention of it in any glyphs or writings, along with no mention of tools other than what archeology has found? Knowing they were going to work on such hard stone why didn't they give them better tools?
You may say the aliens only built the Great Pyramid and left. Well then the Egyptians were pretty clever in figuring out how to do it later on with the available resources.

Until next time,

Al

[sucahyo]

If aliens gave this tech. to Egyptians or Sumerians, why didn't they give them better tools to do the job? Surely they didn't come back every now and then and do it themselves over several thousand years? And if so why no mention of it in any glyphs or writings, along with no mention of tools other than what archeology has found? Knowing they were going to work on such hard stone why didn't they give them better tools?

They don't need tool, they can do it without tool because they can alter atom, they are not alien, they do it on a favor, they still here. We wouldn't notice even if it mentioned in the glyph.

[Jbignes5]

Al please...

"I have some questions for you. If aliens gave this tech. to Egyptians or Sumerians, why didn't they give them better tools to do the job? Surely they didn't come back every now and then and do it themselves over several thousand years? And if so why no mention of it in any glyphs or writings, along with no mention of tools other than what archeology has found? Knowing they were going to work on such hard stone why didn't they give them better tools?
You may say the aliens only built the Great Pyramid and left. Well then the Egyptians were pretty clever in figuring out how to do it later on with the available resources."

you accuse us of not reading your links but fail to listen, read or otherwise pay attention to mine and others. A lot of the links about the Sumer Civilization have tablets and clay seals that actually explain that "they" left for a reason. In fact if one goes to xfacts.com you could listen to one of the foremost authorities of these tablets and seals explain how they were not only translated by a lot of different sources to say the same thing over and over.
There is a nice view of the bagdad battery there. If after seeing the actual battery you decide that they were used to store stuff then oh well. But it is clearly not a storage unit. And from what I am hearing plating of gold was done at that time.
Thats why me and rickoff have been so rock solid in our position on this. The Sumer civilization was the origin of a lot of our current systems that are in place. Even our religions have a root in Sumer but they changed the names to protect the innocent rofl..
What I think happened is after they left we forgot a lot that was taught to us. And we de-evolved as a society. Since most technical stuff was hoarded to the elite or priests as "holy" knowledge they did nothing to make sure man was equal. We lost this information because it was buried, why? Because knowledge is power and thats what happens to man. It corrupted them and they liked the feel that they knew something that the others didn't. This is currently going on now. The powers that be are in full knowledge and we are not. They hold the truths that would enable us to free ourselves from their control because thats the game they are playing. Sometimes this information leaks out because there are some that can not stand to be pushed around and rebel. This leaves us with theories that can never be proved but by the very information they hold from us.
I think that this is the event that is gonna happen in full view on 2012. They are gonna come back and bring truth to us once again.