Tesla experiment, arc IS NOT spark

[crackahcrackah]

I don't think you want a high frequency ac power supply. I have noticed in many of tesla's designs the combination of high voltage dc dynamo, capacitor (tesla calls it a "condenser"), and spark gap. This combination is what actually produces the high frequencies in these circuits, but they are impulse currents and not alternating currents.

Watch the sbarc dollard video if you haven't already and pay attention when dollard describes impulse currents: YouTube - Part 1 of 6: Eric Dollard Tesla Longitudinal wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio with Chris Carson

Dollard has also emphasized that reducing the impulse duration as much as possible increases the efficiency. He also says something about an inverse relation to time. I will have to review my materials again to find the exact reference to where he said this.

My theory about impulse currents is that they push a high voltage transient across the conductor via the skin effect and stop pushing current into the circuit before it is able to penetrate to the core of the conductors and set the electrons wobbling, producing heat. Ironically, we call this wobble of electrons electricity, when it is really just a waste of energy. Mathematicians of tesla's day were unable to model transients and the skin effect, so ironically every ee major today is taught that transients are undesirable and taught how to minimize transients and the skin effect as much as possible. From my reading about tesla I have begun to conclude that he discovered circuits that operated with transients and the skin effect via impulse currents were far more efficient than those operating by wobbling electrons at the core of a wire with alternating currents.


So, a high voltage dc power supply charges a capacitor until the voltage is sufficient to arc the gap. The voltage should not get high enough to cause electrode ionization before the arc is quenched. The arc is quenched using various means (capacitor voltage naturally dropping below required plasma ionisation voltage, magnets, hot air), preferably as quickly as possible, and the capacitor charge time produces the rest period between impulses. Then in the case of the magnifying transmitter the impulses are put into the primary coil which causes the secondary to resonate. This magnifies the power put into the system somehow; I believe it has something to do with the impulses in the primary setting up waves in the secondary which the impulses are perfectly timed to "spank" at the right moment, causing some kind of magnification effect.

I believe we will be able to produce appropriate and even more finely tuneable impulse currents using solid state technology instead of spark gaps, but it is useful to experiment with the same techniques tesla used to gain insight into his discoveries.

Thanks to everyone on this board, I am learning a lot and will be performing my own experiments shortly!

Bravo! You've been doing you're homework and for that you deserve encouragement. I've been posting every where, youtube, forums, and all over for others to study Tesla's HF current patents, as they are the most important aspects of his work imho. I am going to warn you now that I've used solid state in studying this phenomenon, and I have hesitations with it currently. I am self-trained in electronics so it is possible that I am over looking mechanisms which would permit solid state operation at 20KV and above.

I have used a board operating at 8-9KHz which produced 300V spikes from just 24Vs, passed through a large hand wound inductor. I added an additional coil which did not overlap with the first (the toroid is 6.5" across). This additional coil was hooked up to it's own hexfet(rated at 800V, with a 7ns rise time, the dv/dt is critical). The induced spikes from the 2 coils were shunted through to a current free section of circuit (capacitor filtered) as per Tesla's hf current circuits, and on this side the oscilloscope showed a 600v spike. The individual spikes were timed perfectly to create a standing wave.

I have attempted to find other fets, or other solid state switching components to permit spikes up to 20KV and higher but have had no luck. The higher voltage rating is necessary to obtain the bare minimum specifications recommended by Tesla in Patent # 454,622 for useful lighting (15KHz @ 20KV). Again, I am self-trained so I am concerned that I may have overlooked some other modern component systems. But if not, then the best approach to meet those goals is as cited in Tesla's patent.

I have carbon welding rods which I plan on tapping and attaching screws into, as a spark gap. I may stick with homemade mylar/aluminum capacitors as I can not afford some nice big caps. But ultimately I will build the capacitors which Tesla invented that I have seen no one else build, and he specifically states that they are GREATLY suited to circuits with high frequency (make note of this patent gentlemen). It is patent 567,818. It appears to be something that can be made cheaply so people working with HF circuits should ditch what they are using and make these. If I remember correctly it was Tesla's last major condensor patent. This should not be overlooked!

My other concern is the primary and secondary. I recently bought 4gauge bare copper for the primary. I have 32gauge magnet wire which will be used for the secondary. I plan on making the secondary in a pancake fashion. I'm still determining if I should use Tesla's 512,340, magneto-coil. The only concern is that he specifically mentions AC voltage regarding it at the beginning.

Are there any other people looking into this line of patents by Tesla? If so, can you comment on them?

[sucahyo]

Probably you produce electricity like an battery or better similarry an static homopolar generator .. you can use an pvc tube an inside power an arc discharge, from the end of sides apply to the left aluminum plate and on the right copper plate.. use an tester for to see voltage generated on plates. If you don't have time for create pvc tube reactor you can start other simple experiment.. that I attach here diagram .. As you can see is very similar to tesla receiver but instead use an transformer you use an diode bridge. After few minutes your capacitor is charged.. Regards

I don't think I can. Because:
- I don't have meter that measure kilovolts
- I don't have diode that can be used as kilovolts FWBR. I have HV diode but it do not work as FWBR. Using common diode do not rectify it. using only one diode reduce power up more than half
- I don't have capacitor at kilovolts ratings. I manage to broke 250V ceramic when playing around with spark gap (put in series).
- during arc mode anything put in between, or being touch will act as a load and have HV.

[tutanka]

I don't think I can. Because:
- I don't have meter that measure kilovolts
- I don't have diode that can be used as kilovolts FWBR. I have HV diode but it do not work as FWBR. Using common diode do not rectify it. using only one diode reduce power up more than half
- I don't have capacitor at kilovolts ratings. I manage to broke 250V ceramic when playing around with spark gap (put in series).
- during arc mode anything put in between, or being touch will act as a load and have HV.

You don't obtain Kv.. maybe 2-4V 500A on plates. You don't have put inside discharge arc nothing.. only laterally to your arc tube as described in my diagram

[sucahyo]

I have attempted to find other fets, or other solid state switching components to permit spikes up to 20KV and higher but have had no luck.

Try my transistor combination. With FWBR, my primary can reach >1000V on analog meter, 800V on digital meter.

I use the simplest circuit in this video (require hand trick to lit neon bulb). Notice that I use 9V/240V transformer and I shorted the 240V part .
YouTube - 1000V sting oscillator - onde diode version


If you want to reach resonant, use the complete circuit without resistor that connect to battery negative.


Some people use flat wire for primary of Tesla Coil.

[sucahyo]

You don't obtain Kv.. maybe 2-4V 500A on plates. You don't have put inside discharge arc nothing.. only laterally to your arc tube as described in my diagram

Ok. I see what happen.

[fzzzy]

Bravo! You've been doing you're homework and for that you deserve encouragement. I've been posting every where, youtube, forums, and all over for others to study Tesla's HF current patents, as they are the most important aspects of his work imho. I am going to warn you now that I've used solid state in studying this phenomenon, and I have hesitations with it currently. I am self-trained in electronics so it is possible that I am over looking mechanisms which would permit solid state operation at 20KV and above.

Thanks. I feel like I have just started on the homework; I have only read a few tesla patents and lectures. I read "my inventions", everything I could find by Eric dollard, and tons of random books about tesla. I have a huge backlog of reading material!

I agree tesla's patents are a goldmine. They are difficult to read because they use terminology which is unfamiliar to many (they used to call capacitors condensers) and tesla used terminology which was subtle, extremely precise, and perhaps not many were aware of what his subtleties meant. Attempting replications will help understanding greatly. I think the biggest obstacle to understanding is a lack of measurement instruments. This probably prevented others from understanding tesla in his day. Tesla simply made a prototype of every improvement that he imagined and tested them out, instead of using math to predict what should be possible and designing from that.

I think *eventually* we can use solid state for tesla tech; this might require new types of solid state components though. I think it is futile to try to replicate with solid state something that is so difficult to replicate as tesla designed it. More people should attempt replications similar to what Eric dollard shows is the borderland sciences videos. Once people have working replications and begin performing the experiments dollard shows, we can learn how to measure the phenomena, begin to understand it, and then go solid state. That's just what I suggest, but maybe another avenue is to take one of the existing solid state tesla coil designs and modify it to be a magnifying transmitter (by making sure the mass or the surface areas of the primary and secondary are equal, I believe?)

I have used a board operating at 8-9KHz which produced 300V spikes from just 24Vs, passed through a large hand wound inductor. I added an additional coil which did not overlap with the first (the toroid is 6.5" across). This additional coil was hooked up to it's own hexfet(rated at 800V, with a 7ns rise time, the dv/dt is critical). The induced spikes from the 2 coils were shunted through to a current free section of circuit (capacitor filtered) as per Tesla's hf current circuits, and on this side the oscilloscope showed a 600v spike. The individual spikes were timed perfectly to create a standing wave.

I have attempted to find other fets, or other solid state switching components to permit spikes up to 20KV and higher but have had no luck. The higher voltage rating is necessary to obtain the bare minimum specifications recommended by Tesla in Patent # 454,622 for useful lighting (15KHz @ 20KV). Again, I am self-trained so I am concerned that I may have overlooked some other modern component systems. But if not, then the best approach to meet those goals is as cited in Tesla's patent.

I'm self taught too, just teaching myself now, so I'm not really in a position to comment. Sounds awesome though! Thanks for the kHz specifics and the patent number. I had seen tesla talk about frequencies but only in his lectures and only very generally.

I have carbon welding rods which I plan on tapping and attaching screws into, as a spark gap. I may stick with homemade mylar/aluminum capacitors as I can not afford some nice big caps. But ultimately I will build the capacitors which Tesla invented that I have seen no one else build, and he specifically states that they are GREATLY suited to circuits with high frequency (make note of this patent gentlemen). It is patent 567,818. It appears to be something that can be made cheaply so people working with HF circuits should ditch what they are using and make these. If I remember correctly it was Tesla's last major condensor patent. This should not be overlooked!

Thanks, that's great info. There are so many tesla patents that need independent replication... It would be great to get a wiki and message board site dedicated completely to tesla reproductions... There is much to be learned, spelled out in plain english with beautiful diagrams.

I was just researching what kind of capacitors I would need to get the voltages required... Maybe I can just build these instead.

My other concern is the primary and secondary. I recently bought 4gauge bare copper for the primary. I have 32gauge magnet wire which will be used for the secondary. I plan on making the secondary in a pancake fashion. I'm still determining if I should use Tesla's 512,340, magneto-coil. The only concern is that he specifically mentions AC voltage regarding it at the beginning.

Are there any other people looking into this line of patents by Tesla? If so, can you comment on them?

You might want to use sheet copper for the primary. Dollard used this and coaxial cable for the secondary, arranged in a pancake fashion.

I would suggest keeping it as simple as possible as first. Use a pancake coil. I haven't looked at that patent for the magneto coil yet though, I'll do that now.

There is a bit of tesla discussion happening over on the thunderbolts forum. Here is a good thread for example:

Thunderbolts Forum - View topic - Pulsed Power

There is more to that thread, but this page is where discussion about implementation specifics of a magnifying transmitter starts.

Here are all of the dollard videos I am aware of in case anyone hasn't seen one:

SBARC video: YouTube - Part 1 of 6: Eric Dollard Tesla Longitudinal wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio with Chris Carson
Tesla transverse and longitudinal electric waves: Transverse & Longitudinal Electric Waves - Eric Dollard And Thomas Joseph Brown on Vimeo
Tesla's longitudinal electricity: Tesla's Longitudinal Electricity - Eric Dollard, Peter Lindemann & Tom Brown on Vimeo
1986 US psychotronics association: Thomas Brown, Eric Dollard and Bob Beck on the Lakhovsky MWO, U.S. Psychotronics Association conference 1986 on Vimeo

[fzzzy]

Wow... Eric dollard just answered my own question about building measurement instruments...

I hadn't watched the video "transverse and longitudinal Electric waves" in a while so after I posted the link I watched it. To my surprise at about 3/4 the way through there was a part I had forgotten about.

Dollard talks about their attempts to build a detector for "bioenergetic fields" or an "orgone detector." He then takes it close to the end of his analog computer which produces longitudinal dielectric induction. He remarks that it "responds quite readily to the longitudinal dielectric induction."

The detector is simple: he calls it a "gas photo multipactor tube" or "farnsworth multipactor tube" and says that multipactor action theory was developed in the 1930s by Philo Farnsworth.

He says it is modernly called a "photo multiplier" tube and that it "forms the heart of every television camera."

Seems like we should be able to find a suitable tube somewhere and have a dielectric field detector! Much cheaper than a langmuir probe

[Jbignes5]

Ok here is some tips.

Tesla wasn't a real Theorist and he hated them. He did have his own ideas of what was going on but to tell you the truth the simple fact that he did use the waves meant it worked and he didn't need complicated math or theories to provide the truth.
What I did was read everything Tesla wrote and to tell you the truth there is a lot. Try to read it in order if you can because it will lead you down the same path of understanding that Tesla eventually ended up in.
What really happened is that the good stuff got buried. Buried deeper then anyone can imagine but he left clues in everything he did even his patents that the ones who did the burying dolts didn't understand.
As one gets more and more into his documentation one will see that there are a great many things he discovered that are mere mentions in the collected material he wrote.
Like when amplifying the waves via a geometrical coil or conical coil it really focuses the force and both produces a wind like effect as well as a new electrical phenomina to boot. This conical coil was set around the wave generator and was focused by the mere shape of the coil that was not connected to anything. The wave was guided to focus to the tip and greatly affected the matter in the air that was around it. He talks about a wind that he could hear and feel from a focuser coil that had no connection and zero current in it as well but yet it had a brush of voltage coming out from the tip of that coil.
Another useful tip is this, Do not pay attention to + and -. Those only work in relation of a wire that is whole. Meaning that it is only a relation between the two ends. There is only one kind of charge in the universe and there are no negatives to those only the lack of charges below the ambient base level.
I am currently working on the last part of my Theory which relates to only using the positive of a battery as a source of higher then ambient potential to run a converter that will be capable of powering our own devices using just pure voltage potential and attraction of the ambient charges through our loads. It's tough because I am a classically trained electronic technician and that seems to be creeping back into my comprehension of Tesla's world. It is going slowly but I think I am making strides and should be finalizing my theory of what he discovered.
I doubt that solid state devices could ever be used for a true Teslian style generator because of one simple fact, Solid state devices were made under the electron theory and not what Tesla had discovered. That being said he discovered that our thinking even to this day is most unnatural and in reverse.
We seem to think that we are supplying the current and that is not the case. Energy or charges are external to our devices and all we have done is tricked ourselves and been led to think that we must supply this current. That is not how nature works. Every system we have today is forced current and that where we have to pay for both the potential and current in a closed loop system, with the problem that there is no such thing as a closed loop system. that system resides in our environment and that is where the charges come from outside of our systems. We only draw in the charges and thats where the current comes from.
The one problem with that is then what are we buying from our current supply systems then? I say it is not current from that supply system it is only the ability to maintain the potential and the power companies are receiving the charges. It is all a scam. Weather or not they knew this is the question.
We will get there eventually and I am trudging along trying to get people to understand that this system we have is a bidirectional feed with voltage leading the current. Voltage first then current flows twords the source via the established path.

[boguslaw]

I have a weird feeling that every electric circuit and permanent magnets are just redirecting Earth magnetic field energy,condensing,splitting,mixing,reflecting and so on.

Almost impossible to imagine ! Anyway,just recall Tom Bearden "cranking the generator shaft" is our current method of generating imbalance in vacuum - a dipole.However if magnetic field is already a steady state flow of dipoles all we have to do to tap this energy is ...creating imbalance between in and out flow.

[Jbignes5]

I have a weird feeling that every electric circuit and permanent magnets are just redirecting Earth magnetic field energy,condensing,splitting,mixing,reflecting and so on.

Almost impossible to imagine ! Anyway,just recall Tom Bearden "cranking the generator shaft" is our current method of generating imbalance in vacuum - a dipole.However if magnetic field is already a steady state flow of dipoles all we have to do to tap this energy is ...creating imbalance between in and out flow.

Now you are getting it. It is the very thing of my Theory. It explains even weather and the likes as being huge collections of charges as they go to our core and expelled out the poles or visa versa.
I think Tesla figured this out only in the later years of his life after wardencliff.. That was a tough lesson for him, how the bad guys can get you and make you feel like it was your fault.
I think the best example of the grid in which we live in is these lines of force coming out of our planet and bending to the external medium. Lets say the earth for example: this is a rigid medium with conduits of these lines bound in the matter. if the poles were taken away, just for a thought experiment, the mass of the earth has roughly lined up in a pom pom like form. You know the ones you made as a kid with yarn. Now think about the medium of air. It still has particles of matter to it. These also line up but where the earth and atmosphere meet is a boundry condition much like in aluminum like I showed in it's structure. Now lets look at water and air. The same boundry is made with this very dense structure. the boundry is actually a density change of this grid of lines of force. When we have a boundry change of density it creates a skin like effect. The same process goes on between the layers of our atmosphere as well including our ionosphere (last real atmosphere). There are others but they are not dense enough for us to detect with the eyes.
Mass, boundries and density have a lot to do with this energy grid. Just to give you further clues.

[fzzzy]

Jbignes5, thank you for your interesting posts. I think I may be at a slight advantage because I am not trained in electrical engineering and my first real exposure to it has been intuitively through tesla and dollard.

A simple request, could you put a blank line between your paragraphs? Would make your posts easier to read. Thanks!

[Jbignes5]

Jbignes5, thank you for your interesting posts. I think I may be at a slight advantage because I am not trained in electrical engineering and my first real exposure to it has been intuitively through tesla and dollard.

A simple request, could you put a blank line between your paragraphs? Would make your posts easier to read. Thanks!

Your welcome. I am sorry about the paragraph issue. When I start writing it is a passion that takes over and sometimes my thoughts and writings don't get the break they need.. LOL

Now does that explanation that I gave give you a aha moment or not?

[fzzzy]

Your theory does speak to me intuitively but I have not yet had a real a ha moment with it yet. I will go back and read your posts again. I can feel there is something there, I am just not yet able to visualize the flow, which is when I will know I understand it.

I wish you luck in your experiments, look forward to attempting replications, and look forward to the a-ha moment I know I will have.

[Jbignes5]

Your theory does speak to me intuitively but I have not yet had a real a ha moment with it yet. I will go back and read your posts again. I can feel there is something there, I am just not yet able to visualize the flow, which is when I will know I understand it.

I wish you luck in your experiments, look forward to attempting replications, and look forward to the a-ha moment I know I will have.

Don't just use my words my friend. I am just trying to guide others into the method that nature uses not man.

The concept of my Theory has come from years of observing nature in all of it's glory. From the solar system to the universe and how matter is connected. I guess the most famous experiment was done by others saying they could take twin particles and move one and the other would move as well. That means one thing! It is connected somehow. Finding that connection is what I did.

I guess the best answer to anyones questions about this is that there has to be a way to conduct without traditionally using conductors. Take the case of metals being crystalline in structure and the piezo effect. When you stand back and look at it all it makes perfect logical sense. Remember that nature is fractal in it's most fundamental state.

[fzzzy]

Don't just use my words my friend. I am just trying to guide others into the method that nature uses not man.

The concept of my Theory has come from years of observing nature in all of it's glory. From the solar system to the universe and how matter is connected. I guess the most famous experiment was done by others saying they could take twin particles and move one and the other would move as well. That means one thing! It is connected somehow. Finding that connection is what I did.

I guess the best answer to anyones questions about this is that there has to be a way to conduct without traditionally using conductors. Take the case of metals being crystalline in structure and the piezo effect. When you stand back and look at it all it makes perfect logical sense. Remember that nature is fractal in it's most fundamental state.

Yes, I am attempting to intuitively grasp your concept, but it takes time, patience, and openness to new information. In my last post I wrote a long paragraph about isomorphism, surface meaning (encoded in symbols) and deep meaning (occult, or hidden meaning pointed to by the symbols but understood only by contemplating the relationship of symbols within a symbol set, and relationships between multiple symbol sets describing the same thing). I deleted it from my post because I thought it was too wordy.

I think I understand what you mean about one particle. It's like the yin yang, it seems to be divided into two but one cannot move without the other and one is continually changing into the other. So we think we see two but it is only one and seeing two is an illusion.

I also get what you say about conducting without conductors. What dollard says about electrons being the resistance or the destruction of electricity makes sense to me, and my intuition as I stated before is that pulsed power interrupts the current before it has a chance to penetrate the conductor and waste energy wobbling electrons. Dollard calls conductors reflectors and talks about energy being transmitted in the dielectric. This makes sense to me.

Here is a little random food for thought, spinning an octohedron, or two five sided pyramids, into a sphere generates the star tetrahedron formation, or two four sided pyramids inverted in relation to each other. Is this the process of the one generating duality?

Flower of Life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also here is my intuitive theory attempting to relate the four fundamental circuit elements to the tai chi, or yin yang concept, and to Stephen wolfram's classes of computation.

Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - The electrical tai chi: I Ching, Wolfram, and Electricity

And yes, I think that everything is fractal, or recursive... This is one reason electric universe theory resonates so well with me, because plasma phenomenon observed in he laboratory is scaled up by different orders of magnitude.