Tesla experiment, arc IS NOT spark

[Inquorate]

sucahyo, it may be that the electrodes are heating up, and the resistance is increasing, limiting current. Try blowing air with a fan, and have the electrodes 90% covered with icy water, each electrode standing vertically in a separate cup; bend the tips of the electrodes horizontally.

love the experiments and observations! Excellent work.

[sucahyo]

sucahyo, it may be that the electrodes are heating up, and the resistance is increasing, limiting current. Try blowing air with a fan, and have the electrodes 90% covered with icy water, each electrode standing vertically in a separate cup; bend the tips of the electrodes horizontally.

I doubt it is limiting current. It seems to be producing more current. It is hot. This video show that it can alternate.
YouTube - More about two kind of spark


I can't check output current because my stingo current consumption is not proportional to output. Sometimes lower, sometimes higher.

I blow it and nothing change. It seems to only happen between sharp point. When I move it so the blunt face each other, it change to brighter spark mode.

Will try that next. Maybe between water surface and needle.

[redrichie]

Is this what happens in an LED? Just contained in a glass bubble? Stubblefield used arc lighting in conjunction with his coils. Does the V/current change after it passes through arc?

[sucahyo]

Is this what happens in an LED? Just contained in a glass bubble? Stubblefield used arc lighting in conjunction with his coils. Does the V/current change after it passes through arc?

I don't think so. LED is a diode. Semi conductor arrangement force the current to go only one way. There is no semi conductor in the spark.

Output of car coil usually AC. Some use magnetic quench spark gap to rectify the spark just like shown by thread started by Inquorate.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ansistors.html

However, on certain circuit or frequency or duty cycle, car coil do produce DC. I just confirm it today with neon bulb. My crappy webcam can not show it unfortunately.

YouTube - Description of arc and spark

What shown in the video:
- 12V stingo and car coil
- show spark between neon bulb leg and water surface
- when spark start to appear, it branches and made the neon bulb lit one leg brighter than the other
- on closer distance the branches merge into steady less bright stream, lit the neon only at one side. Brighter neon showing there is more current flowing in the arc. Less bright than fully connected though

assumption:
- spark branching because the stream do not want to go the same path because the previous stream heat up the path and increase the resistance
- arc do not branch because stream are rushing and trying to maintain connection


This experiment show that:
- car coil output can produce both AC and DC current. This show that Farah Day (believe only DC output) and HairBear (believe only AC output) are both wrong.
- DC spark can be obtained without magnetic quench spark gap
- arc in this case is not related to electrode temperature. I think the neon will malfunction first before the tip going hot red.

[fzzzy]

This thread reminded me of the non linear graph of different states of plasma.

Electric glow discharge - (The Plasma Universe Wikipedia-like Encyclopedia)

What they call glow mode is what used to be called arc, and what they call arc mode is what used to be called spark. Pity.

According to the description of the state transition between arc and spark, or glow and arc, the difference is whether the plasma covers the entire cathode. It seems the key to producing a non wasteful discharge is to use enough voltage, but not so much that the plasma covers the entire cathode and the current starts encountering resistance.

Great thread, thanks.

[vrand]

I don't think so. LED is a diode. Semi conductor arrangement force the current to go only one way. There is no semi conductor in the spark.

Output of car coil usually AC. Some use magnetic quench spark gap to rectify the spark just like shown by thread started by Inquorate.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ansistors.html

However, on certain circuit or frequency or duty cycle, car coil do produce DC. I just confirm it today with neon bulb. My crappy webcam can not show it unfortunately.

YouTube - Description of arc and spark

What shown in the video:
- 12V stingo and car coil
- show spark between neon bulb leg and water surface
- when spark start to appear, it branches and made the neon bulb lit one leg brighter than the other
- on closer distance the branches merge into steady less bright stream, lit the neon only at one side. Brighter neon showing there is more current flowing in the arc. Less bright than fully connected though

assumption:
- spark branching because the stream do not want to go the same path because the previous stream heat up the path and increase the resistance
- arc do not branch because stream are rushing and trying to maintain connection


This experiment show that:
- car coil output can produce both AC and DC current. This show that Farah Day (believe only DC output) and HairBear (believe only AC output) are both wrong.
- DC spark can be obtained without magnetic quench spark gap
- arc in this case is not related to electrode temperature. I think the neon will malfunction first before the tip going hot red.

Nice experiment sucahyo!

- What is the circuit diagram and parts you are using?
- Used a car coil (20kV)? How pulsed? Frequency?
- Did you find that the tip of the wire, discharging to the water, was not hot?

Interesting

Regards, Mike R.

[boguslaw]

Congratulations!. Now try to produce radiant energy from car coil with arc at Hz range and you will feel stinging effect.The rest is up to you.
The key was always very strange match of frequencies to coil. As I explained quite long time ago abrupt change in magnetic field radiate field around, the source of that field is compensation of change by our old Earth.

[sucahyo]

Congratulations!. Now try to produce radiant energy from car coil with arc at Hz range and you will feel stinging effect.The rest is up to you.
The key was always very strange match of frequencies to coil. As I explained quite long time ago abrupt change in magnetic field radiate field around, the source of that field is compensation of change by our old Earth.

Thanks, unfortunately the circuit frequency can not be controlled at will. I'll try to dirupt it next.

Edit: on the second thought, I don't think I can disrupt it with anything I have now. I think the arc would just made another arc with relay, or just burn the transistor or optocoupler.

[vrand]

Thanks, unfortunately the circuit frequency can not be controlled at will. I'll try to dirupt it next.

Edit: on the second thought, I don't think I can disrupt it with anything I have now. I think the arc would just made another arc with relay, or just burn the transistor or optocoupler.

What are you using to control the frequency?

[broli]

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned here but take a look at this website:

Adjustable Spark Gap | JCB Energy

This guy is doing some of Tesla's early work on spark gaps. If anything I recommend anyone to use such an adjustable sparkgap in their sparkgap containing experiments.

[sucahyo]

What are you using to control the frequency?

Resonance potentiometer, the frequency will change depend on the coil state or load impedance. The previous video show that the circuit frequency change when in corona mode, spark mode, arc mode or direct short.

Also there is no way to change the frequency without altering input/output power, which may change the spark state.
my exact circuit:


not exactly tuned for car coil. all the resistor should tuned for max performance.

Edit: The resistor should be 1K. 100 ohm can make the transistor very hot.

This guy is doing some of Tesla's early work on spark gaps. If anything I recommend anyone to use such an adjustable sparkgap in their sparkgap containing experiments.

Thanks for the link, interesting. Some already use them.

[vrand]

Resonance potentiometer, the frequency will change depend on the coil state or load impedance. The previous video show that the circuit frequency change when in corona mode, spark mode, arc mode or direct short.

Also there is no way to change the frequency without altering input/output power, which may change the spark state.
my exact circuit:


not exactly tuned for car coil. all the resistor should tuned for max performance.


Thanks for the link, interesting. Some already use them.

Interesting circuit thats

The stidypowerfix2 video with the stingo powering that small brushed DC motor was nice. The sound of that DC motor spinning sound like it was going to fly apart.

What voltage and frequency was going into that motor?

I did not see the car coil in your videos. What is the voltage output?

[sucahyo]

Interesting circuit thats

The stidypowerfix2 video with the stingo powering that small brushed DC motor was nice. The sound of that DC motor spinning sound like it was going to fly apart.

What voltage and frequency was going into that motor?

I did not see the car coil in your videos. What is the voltage output?

Lol, I forget to rename it. The circuit I use in dc motor video is exactly the same circuit I use for car coil spark experiment. All I do is replacing car coil with brushed DC motor. It is interesting that the motor go that fast at 500mA and current consumption reduce when the motor is loaded . The source voltage is 10V.

I don't know the frequency. Maybe you can hear it when I stop the motor. If you can't then it should be above audible frequency. I can not hear the frequency, maybe microphone pick it up better.

Unfortunately, I have no way to measure the output voltage of the car coil. It is mallory promaster.

[vrand]

Lol, I forget to rename it. The circuit I use in dc motor video is exactly the same circuit I use for car coil spark experiment. All I do is replacing car coil with brushed DC motor. It is interesting that the motor go that fast at 500mA and current consumption reduce when the motor is loaded . The source voltage is 10V.

I don't know the frequency. Maybe you can hear it when I stop the motor. If you can't then it should be above audible frequency. I can not hear the frequency, maybe microphone pick it up better.

Unfortunately, I have no way to measure the output voltage of the car coil. It is mallory promaster.

Ahh okay. I thought you were zapping that poor little DC motor with the arc circuit LOL

In your tack pins arc videos, do the tips melt away or get hot when in the arc mode?

[sucahyo]

Ahh okay. I thought you were zapping that poor little DC motor with the arc circuit LOL

In your tack pins arc videos, do the tips melt away or get hot when in the arc mode?

Lol, that is doable. The tips not too hot in 5 minutes run. Maybe because low current. I think input should be bellow 1Amp.