What is Electric Current?

[Harvey]

@Schpankme,

I think the previous post is off topic and would be better moved to this thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post90604

In your Cat and Hair (balloon) scenario what was the CONDUCTOR used ?

Between the Balloon and Wall -- How did the "electron 'move .. on' to find an atom willing to accept it" ?

Now if were talking AC, would there need to be another atom waiting in the CONDUCTOR to move the electron for the return trip ?

These questions were answered by two scientists at the "Ask a Scientist" site linked to in my post. However, I will give you the elementary answers you seek. All of the materials involved in the charge transactions act as either conductors or insulators. This includes the paint, the plaster, the paper, the rubber etc. The electrons move by Triboelectric action on the surface of the balloon to charge it. The electrons in the wall move in those materials to balance the charge present on the Balloon surface. Same charges repel, and like charges attract, so they move and that is electrical current.

Regarding the AC, the answer is yes.

Regarding Space-Time, you must know by now, that this is an enjoined mathematical construct of 3D space as it progresses through time. You always exist at zero time. Therefore history moves backwards, or is negative and future moves forward and thus is positive. For example, last Saturday is Now - 7days. The next Saturday is Now +7 Days. Very few things exist in the same 'place' even attoseconds later (+time) from 'where' they are now. Tracking the physical position of anything as it progresses through time produces a curvature if the object is changing speed. If the object is moving at a set velocity, it's path through space and time (space-time) will be a straight line. I know it is a difficult concept to meld 4 dimensions this way, but it works well for examining the velocity of objects over time. Electrical Current is moving charge per period of time, so this topic is applicable.

[Harvey]

Thanks Schpankme,

The aether, ether, etc... is other definitions to explain the same thing.
Basically, you need to know that the spacetime continuous is like a matrix, that is made of a chemical compound.

We know that the Earth atmosphere is made of oxygen and other gases. So, the "ether atmosphere" (that is in the entire universe) is made also of other gases. This aetheric atmosphere is composed at least of two gases. Dimitry Mendeleev, the father of the periodic table of the chemical elements, discovered that there was at least other chemical compounds that are omitted in the classic periodic table. One of these elements is called Coronium
Coronium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This nobel gas is situated in the group 0 of the nobel gases. But these compound have a special characteristic: they're non-physical elements. When I say "Non-physical elements", I mean they are massless elements (virtual, electron defficient, atomic number less than 1, lighter than hydrogen). So, they're also called "Pre-Hydrogen" elements.
These chemical compound are omitted in the classic periodic table, but they exist. The problem is they have no electron orbiting. They are between physical and non-physical reality. We can interact with them, but we need to remember that they are not observable elements. We observe their effects, but we cannot observe directly to them with our senses. They are like plasma or other similar thing.

So, the ether is a gaseous medium, composed for two nobel gases (at least).
It has a tremendous density and condensation of high entropy (randomness) sub-electronic particles.

Wasn't it later proven in the 30's that the 1902 Coronium hypothesis (which was based on a green glow) turned out to be highly ionized Iron (specifically Fe13+)and Nickle?


EDIT: Coronium by George C. Claridge
Also:
The Sun's sizzling corona heats up

[Schpankme]

Thanks Schpankme,

The aether, ether, etc... is other definitions to explain the same thing.
Basically, you need to know that the spacetime continuous is like a matrix, that is made of a chemical compound.

So, the ether is a gaseous medium, composed for two Nobel gases (at least).
It has a tremendous density and condensation of high entropy (randomness) sub-electronic particles.

We are in agreement.

"...the universal medium is a gaseous body in which only longitudinal pulses can be propagated, involving alternating compressions and expansions similar to those produced by sound waves in the air. Thus, a wireless transmitter does not Hertz waves which are a myth, but sound waves in the ether, behaving in every respect like those in the air, except that, owing to the great elastic force and extremely small density of the medium, their speed is that of light." -- Nikola Tesla, "Pioneer Radio Engineer Gives Views on Power", published in New York Herald Tribune, Sept. 11, 1932, [2, p.94].

"The Hertz wave theory of wireless transmission may be kept up for a while, but I do not hesitate to say that in a short time it will recognized as one of most remarkable and inexplicable aberrations of the scientific mind which has ever been recorded in history." -- Nikola Tesla, "The True Wireless" [2, p.95].

Tesla was dealing with Aether type forces that don't involve material or atomic particles, they involve something a little finer then that. -- Eric Dollard, Free Energy Research, [p.20]

Schpankme

"Our small planet at this moment in time faces a critical branch point in history, what we do with our world, right now, will propagate down through the centuries and powerfully affect the destiny of our descendants." -

[Harvey]

So in your opinion then, do modern Radio Antenna's refer to a wavelength in terms of Hertz (transverse) or some Longitudinal form?

1/2 wave, quarter wave


What form of Radio Communications do we use in outer space today? Transverse or Longitudinal?

The Great Beyond: Mars rover becomes a couch potato

Personally, I feel both types are usable - but we do have a conflict with Tesla's view of "compression" of a "non-compressible" fluid. Perhaps Electric Current acts as a "Non-Compressible" fluid, while Magnetic Waves in the 'Aether' are compressible.

[Schpankme]

...Space-Time...is an enjoined mathematical construct...

You always exist at zero time. Therefore history moves backwards, or is negative and future moves forward and thus is positive. For example, last Saturday is Now - 7days. The next Saturday is Now +7 Days. Very few things exist in the same 'place' even attoseconds later (+time) from 'where' they are now. Tracking the physical position of anything as it progresses through time produces a curvature if the object is changing speed. If the object is moving at a set velocity, it's path through space and time (space-time) will be a straight line. I know it is a difficult concept to meld 4 dimensions this way, but it works well for examining the velocity of objects over time. Electrical Current is moving charge per period of time, so this topic is applicable.

Harvey,

If your aware that Space-Time (spacetime) is an abstract mathematical construct, than what ever comments you make after that remark to try and prove spacetime is moot. No one has ever witness time-changing, you have by reference used clocks to tell time or to derive time intervals.

There can be NO Motion in Space-Time, motion as defined is change in position in a coordinate system. Therefore, if nothing can move in spacetime, there cannot be such as thing as time travel (forward or backwards).

v=dx/dt

v=dt/dt << always equals 1

dt/dt (self-referential)

Note: The t-axis or time-axis velocity component is 1, a dimensionless number.

Schpankme

"You are living in the present, you use clocks to tell time, you do NOT live in a time dimension; motion as defined is change in position in a coordinate system."

[Schpankme]

So in your opinion then, do modern Radio Antenna's refer to a wavelength in terms of Hertz (transverse) or some Longitudinal form?

What form of Radio Communications do we use in outer space today? Transverse or Longitudinal?

The Great Beyond: Mars rover becomes a couch potato[/url]

Personally, I feel both types are usable - but we do have a conflict with Tesla's view of "compression" of a "non-compressible" fluid. Perhaps Electric Current acts as a "Non-Compressible" fluid, while Magnetic Waves in the 'Aether' are compressible.

NASA, as well all land based Radio Stations use Hertzian (transverse) Waves. This signal propagates at or below 186,000 mps.

Tesla's Longitudinal Waves propagates at 291,000 mps or pi/2 * c


The Great Beyond: Mars rover becomes a couch potato:

Be cautious when NASA tells you that they have MARS ROVERS/LANDERS on MARS. NASA is now telling the American tax payers, that the unmanned Mars Landers are able to make it to the Planets Surface via Parachute. Note, the Martian atmosphere is 1/10 that of the Earths atmosphere, which makes it IMPOSSIBLE to open a Parachute and if you could get the chute open it would carry NO LOAD (lack of resistance).

YouTube - WhiteJarrah's Channel

Schpankme

“Will humans be as clever to make life appear on Mars as they are to make it disappear from Earth ?” - Paul Carvel

[Harvey]

Harvey,

If your aware that Space-Time (spacetime) is an abstract mathematical construct, than what ever comments you make after that remark to try and prove spacetime is moot. No one has ever witness time-changing, you have by reference used clocks to tell time or to derive time intervals.

There can be NO Motion in Space-Time, motion as defined is change in position in a coordinate system. Therefore, if nothing can move in spacetime, there cannot be such as thing as time travel (forward or backwards).

v=dt/dx

v=dt/dt

dt/dt always equals 1 (self-referential)

Note: The t-axis or time-axis velocity component is 1, a dimensionless number.

Schpankme

"You are living in the present, you use clocks to tell time, you do NOT live in a time dimension; motion as defined is change in position in a coordinate system."

I'm not sure even you know what your trying to say there

This may help you however:
http://www.physics.umd.edu/courses/P...w/formulas.pdf

As regards Spacetime you should try to understand what it is before posting dogmatic rhetoric regarding other posters use of it:
Spacetime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fact is, that three of the dimensions of the spacetime manifold allow for movement while the fourth dimension allows for time variation. Therefore, if time tends to zero velocity tends to infinity for a given distance covered. You can solve this construct in your own mind quite easily with the following thought experiment which states that you can walk at any speed imaginable. So, you walk to the store. You repeat this exercise up to a billion times if necessary. Each time you double your speed. At some point, you will walk so fast that the time it takes to travel the distance will be near zero. In fact, in this imaginary scenario, because your legs have distance, to satisfy the equation, there is a point where your one foot will arrive before your other foot leaves. Naturally, such a thing is impossible - but we can construct it mathematically to see how speed, distance and time are really all interwoven. So, if you set one of these to zero without changing one of the others, then the third must be set to infinity. Because this relationship exists, spacetime can be set as a single manifold which motion occurs and it provides a unique simplified means of viewing acceleration, which is the 'change' in velocity divided by the 'change' in time - a = dv / dt and is the second derivative of position.

Kindly refrain from telling us what is moot unless you can support your side of the discussion with truth and facts.

[Harvey]

This is WAY off topic, but it has a fun ending so I decided to post it.

Can Parachutes open on Mars? Yes, they can and they have.

How does a parachute work?
Ask the Van - Illinois Dept. of Physics

So does Mars have "air"? Yes - but it is not made of the same gases that we have here on Earth so the pressure is different.

Atmosphere of Mars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So what do we need to do to make a parachute work with the Martian Atmosphere?

Try this interactive and see if you can make one work:
NOVA | Mars | Design a Parachute | PBS

Keep in mind, that if the gas resistance on Mars is lower than Earth, then the diameter of the chute must be increased to compensate. But don't make one that is 10 miles in diameter, because it won't fit in the cannister.

Worth Watching

JPL EDL COMMAND CENTER

[MrMagAmp]

Originally Posted by Schpankme
"...the universal medium is a gaseous body in which only longitudinal pulses can be propagated, involving alternating compressions and expansions similar to those produced by sound waves in the air. Thus, a wireless transmitter does not Hertz waves which are a myth, but sound waves in the ether, behaving in every respect like those in the air, except that, owing to the great elastic force and extremely small density of the medium, their speed is that of light." -- Nikola Tesla, "Pioneer Radio Engineer Gives Views on Power", published in New York Herald Tribune, Sept. 11, 1932, [2, p.94].

"The Hertz wave theory of wireless transmission may be kept up for a while, but I do not hesitate to say that in a short time it will recognized as one of most remarkable and inexplicable aberrations of the scientific mind which has ever been recorded in history." -- Nikola Tesla, "The True Wireless" [2, p.95].

Tesla was dealing with Aether type forces that don't involve material or atomic particles, they involve something a little finer then that. -- Eric Dollard, Free Energy Research, [p.20]

That's true. I also thought that if the sound can travel thought the air in a longitudinal-wave fashion, then, there must be other kind of wave that can travel in that gaseous space-time. We know that sound can only travel in the air, but longitudinal impulses can travel throught the aetheric gas that is present in all the space-time continuous.

So, a transverse-electromagnetic wave propagation, I think (remember that it's my personal opinion and I can be wrong), it's an unnatural form of energy and very artificial.

The only thing to know, it's that there is massless chemical compound and that the aether is composed of a very high density non-electronic chemical compounds, and the aether presents a high elasticity.
These virtual chemical compounds are omitted in the classic periodic table. But they exist.

I think transverse propagation is like... Ok, think about the Tacoma Narrows bridge YouTube - Tacoma Narrows Bridge Collapse "Gallopin' Gertie". When a group of people step at the same time, there is a longitudinal-soundwave propagation of that "step energy" imposed on the bridge.
When that steps are too strongly done, there is too much energy-force imposed on the bridge and the bridge becomes to oscillate in a transverse mode. The transverse oscillation, maybe is due to the excessive longitudinal energy stored on the bridge. When the bridge has a lot of longitudinal energy imposed in a short period of time, it tries to dissipate that energy, performing transverse oscillations.
I have explained it good or not?

So, if the energy in the nature is longitudinal instead of transverse, and it's not based on electrons. So... What really is energy?

sorry for my english.

[Harvey]

. . .No one has ever witness time-changing . . .

Most Precise Test Yet:
02.17.2010 - Most precise test yet of Einstein&#039;s gravitational redshift

Adjusting GPS for Time Differentials:
Relativity and Satellite Navigation

[MrMagAmp]

It's like the sea and a hose.
When a hose is carrying an amount of water (small amount), the hose is quiet. But if you increase the pressure, the hose becomes to oscillate and it looks like a crazy hose. If you increase too much the pressure, the hose can explode.

The sea is the same. Always there is movement inside the water, but if the movement it's too high, the water becomes to dissipate that excess of energy, releasing waves.

The electricit it's the same. The current can flow like the wave in a hose, if you increase the amount of pressure in a specific amount of time, then the electricity becomes to oscillate, and if you increase too much, the wire explodes.

[Harvey]

Thank you MrMagAmp,

Water and Electricity have a lot in common and I often use hydro related devices as analogies for electronic devices. I can recall spending over an hour once trying to help one member of this forum understand the inductor and the capacitor but she never did quite grasp it.

I thought about drawing some diagrams here but didn't proceed with it.

Here are some comparison devices:

Electricity . . . . . . . . . . Water
_________________________________
Voltmeter . . . . . . . . . . Pressure Meter
Current Meter . . . . . . . . . .Flow Meter
Watt Meter . . . . . . . . . . Special Meter showing Pressure x Flow
Wire . . . . . . . . . . Pipe
Inductor . . . . . . . . . . Heavy Turbine Impeller
Capacitor . . . . . . . . . . Flexible Diaphragm Chamber
Resistor . . . . . . . . . . Small Pipe
Diode . . . . . . . . . . One-Way Valve
Voltage . . . . . . . . . . Head Pressure
Current . . . . . . . . . . Water Flow (CFM for example)
Motor . . . . . . . . . . Water Wheel
Spark . . . . . . . . . . Water Jet
Transistor . . . . . . . . . . Valve
Regulator . . . . . . . . . . Regulator
Electric Charge . . . . . . . . . .Water Molecule
Generator . . . . . . . . . . Pump

As you may imagine, many of the basic tenets of electronics can be related to water devices and uses.


Now, lets look at that pipe as being full of water. And lets say we change the pressure at one end rather rapidly up and down. This will act as a compression / decompression attempt but it is said that water cannot be compressed. So instead, the pressure is transmitted to the other end at the propagation speed of the water molecules ability to transfer the pressure change to the next in line which is about the speed of sound in water. So rapid pressure changes of this type are longitudinal even when compression does not seem to exist. So, can pressure changes occur from one end of the pipe, to the other end without any water flowing? On the surface we may say yes, but at a molecular level we would have to say no. Something has to occur for the pressure to be conveyed from one particle to the next and this occurrence is a minuscule movement at the molecular level which increases the tension between molecules. The amount of current flow is almost not worth mentioning in this case. So, what is an electrical comparison? Just a plain wire. If you attach one end of a wire to a battery, the voltage will be present at the other end at light speed with practically zero current flow. That'll give you something to think about.

[MrMagAmp]

I like it.
Try explaining what electric resistance is and how it's produced. Use the water analogy.

Also try to use some basic formulaes. Example:
Resistance is affected by: 1) Temperature 2) Wire Lenght 3) Wire cross section (diameter) 4) Time
etc...

Try to explain it using the water model.
Try to co-relate all and get your own Unified Theory.

REMEMBER THE MASSLESS ENERGY.

[CatLady]

I like it.
Try explaining what electric resistance is and how it's produced. Use the water analogy.

Also try to use some basic formulaes. Example:
Resistance is affected by: 1) Temperature 2) Wire Lenght 3) Wire cross section (diameter) 4) Time
etc...

Try to explain it using the water model.
Try to co-relate all and get your own Unified Theory.

REMEMBER THE MASSLESS ENERGY.

How about a really small pipe with a honeycomb inside that would resist the water flow. And if it got hot then the holes would get smaller and the longer it is the more it would resist flow. I don't know what to do about the time part except it takes time for the water to get from one end to the other?

[Harvey]

Now if we really want to get fancy, we could make our pipe out of porous ice. Because ICE expands when cooled below 4°C, the holes in the ice would contract (get smaller) and this would give more resistance when cooled and less resistance when warmed. This would correspond to a NTC thermistor in electronics. I used these in the Model 800 Sirens as a bias feedback for our output transistors. When the heat sink would heat up the bias current was shunted via the NTC thus lowering the gain on the output stage.

Thermistor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

. . .If k is negative, the resistance decreases with increasing temperature, and the device is called a negative temperature coefficient (NTC) thermistor. . .