What is Electric Current?

[Schpankme]

As regards Spacetime you should try to understand what it is before posting dogmatic rhetoric

The fact is,

that three of the dimensions of the spacetime manifold allow for movement
while the fourth dimension allows for time variation.

Therefore, if time tends to zero velocity tends to infinity for a given distance covered.

Because this relationship exists,
spacetime can be set as a single manifold which motion occurs and it provides a unique simplified means of viewing acceleration,
which is the

'change' in velocity divided by the 'change' in time - a = dv / dt

and is the second derivative of position.

Kindly refrain from telling us what is moot unless you can support your side of the discussion with truth and facts.

Harvey,

You seem to be making the same common mistake prevalent among mathematicians, who equate math with physics. In physics, you cannot use an arbitrary variable to parametrize change, it's bad practice that leads to all sorts of misunderstandings.

Math is a unit-less system. For example, the coordinates of a point are just numbers. Nothing in the system identifies its physical relevance. The axis could represent anything from temperature to distance to loudness. Asserting that one coordinate is a function of another does not express change or motion. It assumes A Priori existence of change and describes how the evolution (change) of one coordinate is related to or dependent upon the evolution of another.

Physics teaches the importance for units of measurements. Time is measured in seconds and distance is measured in meters for a reason. The reason has to do with their identity or meaning. It is also important to note that, in physics, motion is not defined as a function of an independent variable called time. On the contrary, it is time that is a dependent function of motion/change. Motion/change is observed and a time interval is abstractly derived.

Time itself is never observed; it is abstract. The derivation of time from motion is precisely given: the faster the change, the smaller the interval.

It is for this reason that time is the denominator in the equation of velocity (v = dx/dt).

The derived interval can be calibrated and serve as a parameter with which to compare the rate of change of one phenomenon to that of another.

In physics there is only one valid evolution (change) parameter: time.

Time is a dependent parameter and is expressed in seconds so as to distinguish it from other variables. If a parameter is not measured in seconds, it is not parameterizing any sort of change or motion. The definition of change/motion is a very rigorous one and must not be tampered with so as to fit crackpot ideas like space-time and time-travel.

Moving in spacetime is impossible because it requires motion in time and motion in time is self-referential.

Moving in spacetime is impossible because an evolution parameter (time) cannot be its own evolution parameter.

ref: The End of Time, Julian Barbour
ref: Louis Savain

Schpankme

“We all have our time machines. Some take us back, they're called memories. Some take us forward, they're called dreams.” - Jeremy Irons

[sucahyo]

So in your opinion then, do modern Radio Antenna's refer to a wavelength in terms of Hertz (transverse) or some Longitudinal form?

Hertz.:

Conventional antennas can communicate with each other. Hz antennas can communicate with each other. EH Antennas can communicate with both conventional antennas and Hz antennas. Conventional antennas can not communicate with Hz antennas. If you read that carefully you will recognize the fact that Kor radiation is a new media that allows non-interfering communications with conventional antennas. In other words, KOR radiation has doubled the available frequency spectrum. More food for thought!

Personally, I feel both types are usable - but we do have a conflict with Tesla's view of "compression" of a "non-compressible" fluid. Perhaps Electric Current acts as a "Non-Compressible" fluid, while Magnetic Waves in the 'Aether' are compressible.

Harold Aspden for this is aether is like an LCD. even if LCD is solid, it can block light when there is electricity passing through it.:

It was that, essentially, one needs to accept that the structure of an atomic nucleus is inter-locked with the cubic structure of the aether itself, meaning that the aether is like a fluid crystal which assumes structural form owing to the field effects of electrical charge components of the atom, but which can dissolve as needed so as not to preclude free motion of the atom through space.
...
I believe there are two intermeshing worlds, both having three space dimensions, the material world that we can see and the unseen ghost-like underworld that we can sense by phenomena which the orthodox physicist cannot explain, notably gravitation. My subject is 'Creation' and the related quest of 'Unification', that Holy Grail of the theoretical physicist, which can only be found by those willing to wander in the darkness, probing the fluid-crystal-like structure of the aether, the oscillatory jitter of which accounts for its quantum electrodynamic properties and, arising from its need for dynamic balance, the force of gravitation.
...
Now, I have built my aether theory on the notion that the vacuum medium has structure owing to there being charges sitting in a crystal-like array, those charges having a volume which I find by rigorous analysis is 1843 times the volume of the electron charge.

[sucahyo]

Classic experiment

Du Faye & Franklin.

It was in the year 1746 that he first began to pay attention to the experiments in electricity which were being made in England and France. A great deal had been learnt about this science since the time when Otto Guericke made the first electrical machine in 1672, and a Frenchman named Du Faye had shown that two different kinds of electricity could be produced by rubbing different substances. You will remember that a pith-ball, when charged with electricity from a stick of electrified sealing-wax, draws back, and will not approach the sealing-wax again (see p.122). But Du Faye discovered that if you rub the end of a glass rod with silk, and bring it near to this ball, it will draw the ball towards itself, showing that the electricity in
the glass rod has exactly the opposite effect to that in the sealing-wax. In other words, while Guericke had shown that substances charged with the same kind of electricity repel each other, Du Faye showed that substances charged with different kinds of electricity attract each other. Both these men thought that electricity was a fluid which was created by the rubbing, and which was not in bodies at other times ; when Franklin, however, began to make his experiments, he came to the conclusion that this was not as they had supposed, but that all bodies have more or less electricity in them, which the rubbing only brings out.

You will now, I think, be able to follow Franklin's experiments. He put a person, whom we will call A, upon a glass stool, and made him rub the glass cylinder of an electrical machine with one hand and place his other hand upon it to receive the electricity. Now, he said, if electricity is created by the rubbing, this person must be filled with it, for he will be constantly taking it from the machine, and it cannot pass away, because of the glass legs under the stool. But he found that A had no more electricity in him after rubbing the cylinder than he had before, neither could any sparks be drawn out of him. He then took two people, A and B, and placing each of them on a glass stool, made A rub the cylinder, and B touch it, so as to receive the electricity. Now notice carefully what happened. B was soon so full of electricity that when Franklin touched him, sparks came out at all points ; but what was still more curious, when Franklin went to A and touched him, sparks came out between them just as they had done between him and B.

This he explained as follows :'A, B, and myself,' he said, have all our natural quantity of electricity. Now when A rubbed the tube, he gave up some of his electricity to it, and this B took, so that A had lost half his electricity and B had more than his share. I then touched B, and his extra charge of electricity passed into me and ran away into the earth. I now went to A, and I had more electricity in me than he had, because he had lost half his natural quantity, and so part of my electricity passed into him, producing the sparks as before.

[Harvey]

@Schpankme,

I see you are still struggling with this and I am willing to help you through it if you want to continue the discussion as far as it applies to electrical current. But I do request, rather strenuously, that you refrain from using context where you accuse any forum member of 'suffering from' anything. Such vernacular is viewed as confrontational and out of harmony with forum guidelines.

First things first, your velocity equation is not correct - perhaps this is why you are struggling here? The correct equation is v = dx / dt

Please note the following quote:

"This experiment demonstrates that gravity changes the flow of time, a concept fundamental to the theory of general relativity," Müller said.

It is found in the third paragraph of this page:
02.17.2010 - Most precise test yet of Einstein's gravitational redshift

Please note that Steven Chu is a former UC Berkeley professor of physics.

So this is a physics exercise, not a mathematical exercise. What we have is empirical proof that the mathematical predictions are accurate, time does change and it has been observed.

Just because you may have difficulty grasping a concept is no reason to discard it. If an powerful tool is handed to you and you do not yet know how to use it, but you are told it will make things easier, do you learn to use it or do you convince yourself it is impossible to use?

[Harvey]

I like it.
Try explaining what electric resistance is and how it's produced. Use the water analogy.

Also try to use some basic formulaes. Example:
Resistance is affected by: 1) Temperature 2) Wire Lenght 3) Wire cross section (diameter) 4) Time
etc...

Try to explain it using the water model.
Try to co-relate all and get your own Unified Theory.

REMEMBER THE MASSLESS ENERGY.

About 15 minutes ago some pipes near here began to vibrate because air is in the lines from the source and temperature changes cause a resonant action with the street pressure and solubility of the air in the water. Now mind you, no volume of water leaves the pipe but you could say an alternating current flows back and forth as the air collapses and expands rapidly. It occurred to me that the sound waves this give off are a form of MASSLESS ENERGY. While the medium in this case (air) contains mass, the energy being propagated does not.

So here we reach back a century to the question of a medium for EM wave travel. If the sound waves in our water analogy are compared to radio waves in our EM structure, then we are looking for the medium in which this massless energy could propagate. I prefer to view Space-time as that medium with the understanding that EM events can alter it locally and cause it to ripple outward. But that is because I have my own understanding of how the universe is constructed and operates.

So now we are asking if a blue light photon is the same stuff as a sub-light radio wave at just another frequency? Are radio waves really just packets of photons moving outward from a source in a wave like motion?

Was De Broglie right after all? No wonder he got a Nobel prize for that.

[Schpankme]

This is WAY off topic, but it has a fun ending so I decided to post it.

Can Parachutes open on Mars? Yes, they can and they have.

How does a parachute work?
Ask the Van - Illinois Dept. of Physics

So does Mars have "air"? Yes - but it is not made of the same gases that we have here on Earth so the pressure is different.

Atmosphere of Mars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So what do we need to do to make a parachute work with the Martian Atmosphere?

Try this interactive and see if you can make one work:
NOVA | Mars | Design a Parachute | PBS

Keep in mind, that if the gas resistance on Mars is lower than Earth, then the diameter of the chute must be increased to compensate. But don't make one that is 10 miles in diameter, because it won't fit in the cannister.

Worth Watching Mars Rovers EDL (Entry, Decent, Landing)

JPL EDL COMMAND CENTER:

Harvey,

I mentioned it's IMPOSSIBLE to open a parachute on MARS because of the LACK of atmosphere and you quickly replied, as long as it can fit in the CANISTER provided; all you need to do is build a bigger parachute. So just for you, were going to step through all the data and use the information from the sites/links you've provided.

Lets Start by comparing the Martian atmosphere with that of EARTH, using your Wikipedia link: The atmosphere of Mars is relatively thin, and the atmospheric pressure on the surface varies, with a mean surface level pressure of (0.087 psi), compared to Earth's (14.69 psi). By comparison the Earth has 168.85 times more atmospheric pressure than that of MARS. That's one tenth of a percent to that of the surface pressure on Earth, which is equivalent to 120,000 feet of altitude here on Earth.

Next stop; Mars Rovers EDL (Entry, Decent, Landing) video; I've found the exact same expanded version of the video link you provided, which provides more details:

YouTube - "Two For Two" - Mars Rover Documentary - part 1 of 3

You'll note the opening of the video shows the testing of a parachute in Earth's Atmosphere, in which the parachute fails under load at an unspecified velocity.

0:30 Next we have the Project Manager stating "there was no strategic plan after that".
1:00 into the video we see another chute being tested in a Wind Tunnel in Earth's Atmosphere. Now were shown the rocket blasting off into Space and then were told 6-months later the Mars Rover (payload) has made it to MARS.

2:10 and then the greatest story ever told -- "two days before landing we find out we have errors in the software, the software is trying to turn on pyrotechnic timers/events (Pyro Timers) in which were guaranteed failure, were pretty nervous about this"! So they ended up manually sending commands from Earth bypassing the limitation of the software.

Here's how the Events played out on their Monitor:

Load Pyro Timers with Defaults (sounds familiar)

Post Jettison Poll

Atmospheric Entry

Maximum Heating

Maximum Deceleration

Parachute Deploy Logic Active

Thermal Battery Active

Parachute Deployment

3:00 The Doppler signature indicates "Poll stage" separation has occurred -- this is the spacecraft sending it's radio signal home to momma; which is an important point, as we want to be-aware of the Distance from Earth to Mars, and the Radio transmission delay, this knowledge will come in handy later in the video.

3:44 All systems indicate we are go for Landing; we are 6-minutes from landing.

3:58 we are entering the Top of the Martian Atmosphere; Vehicle speed is 12,192 miles/hour (19621 kilometer/hour). Down range landing distance is 437 miles (703 kilometer).
4:25 the comment was made that "we are going into an event..were we had NO CONTROL".
4:27 Now current altitude 45,000 feet, current velocity 1,356 miles/hour (2182 kilometer/hour).
4:33 Expected parachute deploy in 5-secs or 35,000 feet (11 kilometers). Waiting conformation for parachute has deployed .. parachute was detected..Spacecraft is reporting lander has separated; Radar is expected to lock onto the ground within 5-secs from now.

5:00 Current altitude is 8000 feet, moving at a speed of 173 miles/hour (278 kilometer/hour) we are near are terminal velocity; Spacecraft is reporting the radar is in-lock and we have a good solution in the ground.
5:14 expect retro rocket ignition on my mark::MARK; at this point in time we should be on the ground.

5:35 NOW 6 minutes 37 seconds from Atmospheric Entry; still waiting signal that we are on the ground.

Hey Harvey, there is NO WAY that you or NASA could open a parachute at 120,000 feet here on Earth or on MARS; and making the parachute bigger is a moot point. And because the Martian atmosphere lacks "air resistance", even if you could get your magical parachute to open, it would not support the payload (1261 lbs, 572 kg).

YouTube - MarsFaker: Phoenix Rising PART 1

YouTube - MarsFaker: Phoenix Rising PART 2

I've left the altitude, speeds and deceleration times to those who like a could puzzle.

Schpankme

“For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.”

[Schpankme]

@Schpankme,

First things first, your velocity equation is not correct - perhaps this is why you are struggling here? The correct equation is v = dx / dt

Please note the following quote:



It is found in the third paragraph of this page:
02.17.2010 - Most precise test yet of Einstein's gravitational redshift

Please note that Steven Chu is a former UC Berkeley professor of physics.

So this is a physics exercise, not a mathematical exercise. What we have is empirical proof that the mathematical predictions are accurate, time does change and it has been observed.

Just because you may have difficulty grasping a concept is no reason to discard it. If an powerful tool is handed to you and you do not yet know how to use it, but you are told it will make things easier, do you learn to use it or do you convince yourself it is impossible to use?

Harvey,

I'm very sorry that my typo troubled you so, I hope all is back to normal.

It seems we have entered a stale-mate, as you will always cite Einstein-Relativistic-Babble to prove your point. I've noted this in much of your writing, as you like to reference the "us" and the "we" to prove your point; you must feel some type of comfort in numbers.

Putting the typo aside, this is what we've been discussing:

Moving in spacetime is impossible because it requires motion in time and motion in time is self-referential.

Moving in spacetime is impossible because an evolution parameter (time) cannot be its own evolution parameter.

Schpankme

“On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.” - Thomas Jefferson

[boguslaw]

Is that thread still about electric current ? If so then check wattsup experiments described on Overunity.com forum Understanding electricity in the TPU.
No closed loop circuit.

[Harvey]

@Schpankme,

Your opinions are duly noted and we firmly disagree with them, but you are entitled to them even if they are wrong. Each person must learn for themselves; the best we can do is present the truth to them and let them either accept it or reject it.

Please refrain from any further off topic content in your posts.

Thank you

[Harvey]

Is that thread still about electric current ? If so then check wattsup experiments described on Overunity.com forum Understanding electricity in the TPU.
No closed loop circuit.

Thanks

I had an extremely cursory look at that thread and it looks as if they are learning about EM coupling and antenna loading. But it is still good stuff as they are sharing their empirical evidence and that's the stuff physics is based on

Here is some info on antenna's if anyone is interested:
Antenna Fundamentals and Formulas

[sucahyo]

Here is some info on antenna's if anyone is interested:
Antenna Fundamentals and Formulas

Is that conventiaonal? We should learn E-H and KOR antenna too.

[Schpankme]

What form of Radio Communications do we use in outer space today? Transverse or Longitudinal?

Harvey,

Without sounding argumentative. I'd be interested in knowing how you would differentiate the Longitudinal wave frequency, and the Longitudinal plasma frequency.

Schpankme

“History would be an excellent thing if only it were true.” - Leo Nikolaevich Tolstoy

[Harvey]

Harvey,

Without sounding argumentative. I'd be interested in knowing how you would differentiate the Longitudinal wave frequency, and the Longitudinal plasma frequency.

Schpankme

“History would be an excellent thing if only it were true.” - Leo Nikolaevich Tolstoy

Perhaps this will help you in your quest:
Differentiation (Finding Derivatives)

Since sound is a form of longitudinal wave, this paper from 1965 regarding longitudinal plasma oscillations decaying into ion-sound waves may help you.
http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-p...0&size=largest

SpringerLink - Journal Article

Ion acoustic wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ion Sound Waves

[Harvey]

Is that conventiaonal? We should learn E-H and KOR antenna too.

It is always good to learn what we can especially where it applies to our area of research.

I do have an associate who holds a General Class Radio-Telephone license that has done some experiments with the KOR stuff. He says that it is clear to him that energy (in his case 25W RF) is going 'somewhere' and is not present in the E or H near or far fields. If I recall correctly, Vladimir Korobejnikov realized mathematically, that the H field is not confined to a specific polarization, but instead contains a volume. This means that there is the known x, and y projections as well as a radial z component referred to in "THEORY OF THE ЕН AND HZ ANTENNAS byVladimir Korobejnikov and Ted Hart August 2004" as the Hz field. [personally, I find this problematic because it uses the same identifier as Hertz (Hz) and can be easily confused by the novice reader]. It has been demonstrated empirically that this H-z component is transcendent (in the sense that it has no barriers) and that it appears to be lossless with respect to distance. Mathematically, this component is infinite, but then again, all magnetic fields are considered infinite. Because it is a magnetic component, I would suspect (without any supporting evidence with regards to this particular component) that it would behave as would any magnetic flux when encountering a highly permeable material. What that means, is that I suspect the signal will be channeled by such material which could prevent it from reaching its intended receiver. But this would also mean that it could be guided like microwaves to avoid sensitive areas if necessary.

It is interesting to me, that Maxwell's equations allowed for all three dimensions but only two are generally referenced. We do have overwhelming empirical evidence that mainstream applications of H field emissions are clearly polarized. Note this MIT Microwave Polarization Demonstration.

Now, who can properly explain the electrical current flow in the 'comb' in that demonstration and how it plays a part in the rotational phase angle of the signal polarity.

[sucahyo]

E-H antenna would make a good radiant detector. However, since tuning require a field detector and a known source frequency it is problematic. We are not sure whether our circuit produce radiant much less know at what frequency.

Here is the intro:

In the 1880's (about 120 years ago) Mr. Hertz developed the basic antenna that is used today. About the same time, John Henry Poynting developed a theorem which specifies the relationship of the E and H fields required to produce radiation. That theorem has been proven to be true for all forms of radiation. To satisfy the Poynting Theorem and thus effect radiation, an antenna (or radiating source) must develop E and H fields in proper physical relationship (the H field must encircle the E field), have a ratio of 377 ohms, and both the E and H fields must be developed simultaneously (in phase).

The EH Antenna consists of two elements having natural capacity between them. When a voltage is applied to a capacitor, an electric (E) field will be developed which causes current (displacement current) through the capacitor, which in turn develops the (H) field (magnetic field) at right angles to encircle the E field. However, when current flows through a capacitor, the phase of the current leads the phase of the applied voltage. Therefore, the difference in phase prevents satisfaction of the Poynting Theorem for this configuration. If the phase is corrected by an external network, the "capacitor" becomes a leaky capacitor. The equivalent circuit is a radiation resistance in series with an inductance (due to the displacement current) and in series with the natural capacity.

If the external power applied to the EH antenna is first applied to a network between the source and the antenna, the network can retard the phase of the current through the capacitor relative to the voltage applied to the "leaky" capacitor. Therefore, within the antenna, the time phase of the E and H fields can be made to be the same. This network allows satisfaction of the Poynting Theorem and radiation occurs at the frequency where the network produces the proper phase relationship.

other

Much to our regret, lengths of electromagnetic waves
(frequency) of such heavenly bodies are not reflected yet on a scale in directories and textbooks. Now practical frequencies are lower than 1 Hertz by 5-6 orders of magnitude and more (10^-5 - 10^-6 the hertz and is lower). These have been considered as constant electric current or in the general category of "static", but that basically is not true. Proceeding from this, space "vacuum" of the universe in which there is the hugest quantity of the concentrated mass – charges, it is expedient and correct to consider the space filled with a powerful electromagnetic field. This field is a dynamic wave (dynamics (changes) of the universe, as concentrated mass - charges
moving on the periodic law) with its electric and magnetic components being
orthogonal. All this demands we consider any physical processes as occurring in an external electromagnetic field.