What is Electric Current?

[Harvey]

@ Schpankme,

Sorry, we have no idea what you are saying - was it important?

If it was, your point has been utterly lost on us.

Your posts throughout this forum appear to be a form of harassment, if this is not your purpose then you may want to take the time to properly evaluate the meaning and connotation of your words and whether or not the administrators will find them offensive.


Please refrain from posting in this thread unless you have something meaningful to share.

Thank You.

[ozmatic]

Hi All,
Harvey, I want to thank you for the detailed repy to my post about the capacitative discharge spot welder. It gave me cause to think, [and I think slowly!]. I do not feel that Ohm`s law fully explains the effects of this discharge, but I want to stay on topic. I will just say that I have bought a "velleman HPS10" handheld scope that is supposed to have a one shot measuring capability. If it has, I will start another thread about this discharge, and if it doesnt - it will come in handy for field measurements of my alternators!

V= IR ,Ohm`s law - I use this formula at least 3 times a day - and yet ,I have not bothered to find out who Mr. Ohm was. -I will rectify this shortly.
This formula has made me a lot of money ,it has put bread on the table, it has put a roof over my family`s head -and , in the real world , IT WORKS.

This site beleives that V [voltage] {potential}, is the answer to the world`s problems. I agree that V has been seriously neglected ,and warrants all the underfunded research that is happening here -but this world runs on : I [amps] {current]. No one has yet run a city on a Van de Graff generator. I had dismissed the Kelvin Generator as not scalable [very efficient on a small scale, but not practicable on a large {1kw] scale]. - Now you say that the water can possibly be a continuous stream - THAT is worth investigating.

And now for the third part of the equation : R
If R =0 ,Then v=0 and i=0.
In the real world , R can never =0, but if it did [and the formula allows for that]- then V would=0 and I would=0. In other words, without resistance, electricty cannot exist. I have a problem with that.

Take the case of Harvey`s dragster on a nice dry track. Our brave pilot revs up the engine and gently lets up the clutch -the wheels grip and off he goes in world record time. Does the engine drive the car? Or is it the road?
Now lets assume he starts in Exactly the same way, but this time on a frozen lake. Our brave pilot now says "scrap that heap of junk" - but he has missed the point that the wheels are still spinning - he is just not getting the desired effect.
This is where I think we are with electricity .
And this thread is asking the right question.
Chris

[Allcanadian]

@Ozmatic

And now for the third part of the equation : R
If R =0 ,Then v=0 and i=0.
In the real world , R can never =0, but if it did [and the formula allows for that]- then V would=0 and I would=0. In other words, without resistance, electricty cannot exist. I have a problem with that.

We have a real world example of zero resistance and all we have to do is look up, there is no resistance in space and yet Electromagnetic energy is propogated from the sun to our planet earth, it should be noted that dispite gigajoules of energy in transit from the sun that the space it occupies is cold. If resistance to the motion of energy produces heat then why is space so cold? This is also why Tesla called his evacuated tubes perfect conductors as they remained cold and resistance was diminished as conduction increased. As well the term zero is deceiving, give the zero a twist and you have the sign for infinity.
Regards
AC

[Harvey]

Where V is constant, I is inversely proportional to R. Therefore, as R approaches 0, I approaches infinity for an applied voltage. As this chart shows, superconductors exhibit zero ohms resistance. There are two problems with today's mathematics - first we cannot divide by zero - it simply is not allowed. In reality, if we punch a divide by zero equation into a calculators it should read 'infinity' instead of 'error'. The second thing, is that our computers and calculators have resolution limits. If you take a problem such as
x starts as 1
Start:
x = x / 2
answer = 10 / x
go to start

you will soon get an answer like 1.12355820928895E+308 OVERFLOW ERROR.
But we can clearly see that as x approaches zero, answer approaches infinity.

Therefore, in our reality, where I = V / 0 we will expect I = ∞ - sounds ludicrous doesn't it? But what would prevent it? What natural mechanism will forestall this runaway condition in a superconductor? What is more, is the problem using Chris' approach of V = ∞ ∙ 0 simply fails and is the sort of thing that leads us to infinitesimals. So we don't actually multiply infinity by zero, but rather by some infinitesimal value that satisfies the equation.

We generally apply in DC systems:
Resistance (R) to conductors.
Conductance (G) to insulators.

And in AC systems:
Impedance (Z)
Admittance (Y)

And of course there is Susceptance, Permittivity, Permeability, Inductance and Capacitance that all play a part in charge distribution in Electromagnetic terms for various mediums.

Free Space (vacuum) has an impedance of about 377 Ohms but should not be confused with DC resistance, they are quite different even though they have similar effect on the charge motion.

[MrMagAmp]

You forgot to mention Impulse Current and Oscillating Current.
Without watching to the whole equation of the electricity, you won't get a complete conclusion of what electricity really is.
If you don't really see to the electrical energy from all points of view, how you try to build an efficient energy transformer?

Remember that you won't learn this in schools.

Always is the same history...

[Joit]

You forgot to mention Impulse Current and Oscillating Current.
Without watching to the whole equation of the electricity, you won't get a complete conclusion of what electricity really is.
If you don't really see to the electrical energy from all points of view, how you try to build an efficient energy transformer?

Remember that you won't learn this in schools.

Always is the same history...

How to build? By your own Experience, because they dont build something efficient today.
Once someone said, i forgot who, why dont you build any other Things as Storage instead Caps because they are the most unefficient Way for that.
Waterballons or closed Container with Fluids fit better.
The whole Science is flawed, and anything what looks like Paradox, they left out.
All you learn at all is only the half Truth, and its not even clear,
if her Model of Electrons match. But i had a lot of Effects, what you dont learn somewhere, and consider them all, it would maybe give a complete new Picture.
Seems like this Science is only a 100 Years old Rerun from the Basics, what they did get there, and for generating Electricity its even more worse,
because the importend Steps will be allways supressed,
when it dont fits to the Economy from the ruling Class.

[Schpankme]

We

DC systems:
Resistance
Conductance

AC systems:
Impedance
Admittance
Susceptance
Permittivity
Inductance
Capacitance
that all play a part in charge distribution in Electromagnetic

"In electrical engineering, the susceptance (B) is the imaginary part of the admittance."

I stand in awe!

Schpankme

“I couldn't help but be impressed by the magnitude of the earthquake.” -- Dan Quayle

[Joit]

You may add another List for DC when it s created with Electrostatic,
because i think Electrostatic is a opposite Part from Elektromagnetic.

Different Materials with different Capacitance and Properties,
different Isolators and different Methods to extract Charge.
All things, where Edison maybe was to lazy to look about it.
Maybe he had even no Interest in it.

[MrMagAmp]

How to build? By your own Experience, because they dont build something efficient today.
Once someone said, i forgot who, why dont you build any other Things as Storage instead Caps because they are the most unefficient Way for that.
Waterballons or closed Container with Fluids fit better.
The whole Science is flawed, and anything what looks like Paradox, they left out.
All you learn at all is only the half Truth, and its not even clear,
if her Model of Electrons match. But i had a lot of Effects, what you dont learn somewhere, and consider them all, it would maybe give a complete new Picture.
Seems like this Science is only a 100 Years old Rerun from the Basics, what they did get there, and for generating Electricity its even more worse,
because the importend Steps will be allways supressed,
when it dont fits to the Economy from the ruling Class.

You know the most important key: the theory that people learn in schools is incomplete or invalid to understand all the keys of electricity.
So, how to achieve that? You need to know that the only way to achieve overunity is using radiant energy. Electromagnetic energy is impossible to amplify directly. This has been said hundreds of times.

[Harvey]

"In electrical engineering, the susceptance (B) is the imaginary part of the admittance."

I stand in awe!

Schpankme

“I couldn't help but be impressed by the magnitude of the earthquake.” -- Dan Quayle

Is this true? You are in Awe? But surely, with all of your quotes of Eric Dollard who in turn quotes Oliver Heaviside, you were already aware of this - no?

When you see this: j
in an equation, what did you imagine that it stood for?


I will tell you if you do not know - it stands for the square root of minus one. Plug that into your calculator and see how far it gets you


I perceive that your comment was purely sarcastic and posted as a form of harassment. Not a good thing for you.

[Joit]

You know the most important key: the theory that people learn in schools is incomplete or invalid to understand all the keys of electricity.
So, how to achieve that? You need to know that the only way to achieve overunity is using radiant energy. Electromagnetic energy is impossible to amplify directly. This has been said hundreds of times.

Somehow the Laws still grab at radiant Energy too, i did not see, that you can get a lot more Radiant back then you put in.
The amplifying, in my opinion, is at the Fields, like Milkovic showed mechanical.
Veljko Milkovic - Home Page - Official presentation of the researcher and inventor Veljko Milkovi

Its just, that Peoples dont do research, because, first, they are burried with other Stuff, second, they got thousand Times learned, showed ad prooved, that OU is not possible, therefor they even dont look for the Effects,
and, for Radiant Energy is actually no use at our Science.
You get your Power from the Grid, and when you are a Engineer your Work is at other Things.

When i think about the TPU it looks more like, it are the EM Fields as Radiant Spikes, or maybe its a mix of both.
Another Story there from S. Marks was, at the '60, there did some Tv's crash,
they did not implode, but did attract all magnetic Parts in the Room and drag in direction from Tv, till it was destroyed, and it was a heavy Drag, even a Kid did die there.
But i dont think, the TV was build to catch radiant Energy.
Seems more like, the Kids did play with the Knobs, and because there was maybe the TV a bit unsecure, it increased the Field from the Tube.
And there been more Tv's what had this Error and selfdestructed.
After S. Mark his Boss was there to investigate, and told the Story,
S. Marks did build the Tpu after it.

And for me, i like to kick some Engineers sometimes a bit, when i ask them,
if you can charge Batteries, and i can say allways. Yes

[Harvey]

Hi Joit,

Yes, I did read the same thing from Manix(?) , telling the Mark's story. As I recall, the yoke coils went into a resonant self oscillation. Stevens work supposedly dealt with trying to duplicate that self resonance which he purportedly was able to do using certain tubes.

What isn't well known is that Steven hired an engineer in San Clemente to duplicate his work using electronics. That engineer is the same guy who invented the shopping cart proximity locks. I have had conversations with him via email. Evidently the technology was sold and shelved, but I don't think this guy is under any NDA and seemed to be willing to share what he knew.

Here is the problem - that technology is very unstable. Even Steven had melt downs in his stuff. I have spoke with a member of a group that has duplicated the effect, but they too experience uncontrolled meltdowns (fires). I asked to get involved in the group efforts because I know of ways to prevent these meltdowns - but everyone got quiet.

Here is what I have learned: The apparatus contains a small battery to initiate the resonant action. Once started, the apparatus operates at a harmonic frequency relative to the geodetic Schumann Resonance i.e. the resonance at that specific geographical location as it is different everywhere. The principle of operation suggests that energy is exchanged electromagnetically between the cavity and the device through EM coupling.

Here is one of the problems I see with it. Charged, high energy particles can follow the magnetic field lines down into the device because the field creates a molecular separation in the atmosphere around it. With nothing in the way, the particles make their way all the way through the atmosphere to the device. Upon reaching the device, the energy is absorbed and converted to heat. So I believe the meltdowns are not entirely caused by extra electrical energy, but instead by dangerous x-ray and gamma ray particle entrapment. I wish I would have thought to have them check the roof for signs of discharge there also. 20-20 hindsight.

There is no doubt in my mind that this energy can be tapped - there are too many independent claims with demonstrations for it to not be true. Even the most skeptical scientist must admit that it defies the laws of probability that this many claims over such a long period of time would be the result of false data. The question is, how do we do it safely?

[Harvey]

You forgot to mention Impulse Current and Oscillating Current.
Without watching to the whole equation of the electricity, you won't get a complete conclusion of what electricity really is.
If you don't really see to the electrical energy from all points of view, how you try to build an efficient energy transformer?

Remember that you won't learn this in schools.

Always is the same history...

I'm a little confused about the part we won't learn in schools What part is missing?

Here is a list of the fundamentals (this doesn't cover the advanced stuff):
Fundamentals in Electrical Engineering - Table of Contents

I'm always looking to learn new stuff

[ozmatic]

Hi All,
I would not normally comment so quickly on replies to my posts, but I have had a bit of a Eureka moment.
Everyone is telling me that my problem is not with Ohm`s law - but that the number zero does not exist!
I have actually realised that this could be true - my battery banks self discharge. It is impossible to switch them "off".
I now look at my TV and think :"you are not off - you are just not receiving enough power to perform the function for which you were designed".
It may sound like it , but I am in no way being sarcastic here.
Zero is so final that it cannot exist - but where does this leave mathematics?
Chris

[Allcanadian]

@Harvey

Here is the problem - that technology is very unstable. Even Steven had melt downs in his stuff. I have spoke with a member of a group that has duplicated the effect, but they too experience uncontrolled meltdowns (fires). I asked to get involved in the group efforts because I know of ways to prevent these meltdowns - but everyone got quiet.

I believe there may be a good reason why the technology is unstable, when we consider most every single modern device man has built we can see both stability and degeneration of the source. In fact the primary forces and the conservation of energy are based on this stability in that all forces must balance action with reaction, all forces are met with opposition. In essense this stability will always hinder the growth of the system and a system without growth is a degenerating system. It seems logical then that growth is due to an imbalance as something must be taken from the environment for a time, this is often refered to as Syntropy (generation/life) versus Entropy (degeneration/death) which we seem to worship. As an analogy we could compare a fixed solar array generating power for consumption to a solar powered robot which builds solar powered robots, only the solar powered robots have the capacity to grow or expand there capacity to utilize their environment. We can understand that left to their own devices the robots would multiply in an uncontrolled manner and devour all resources until there was nothing left but solar powered robots. LOL, we could also say that we are not unlike these irrational solar robots in that we seem bound and determined to multiply beyond our means and destroy this planet, we seem to be doing a very good job of it.
I believe there is a saying-- "with great power comes great responsibility", unfortunately I do not think we as a whole are all that responsible or mature yet. It reminds me of the man who walked into a crowded room and yelled "hey stupid" at which point many in the room instinctively turned to confirm his suspicions, we may fool others but we cannot fool ourselves. Oddly enough I have fallen for this joke not once but twice which does not say much for what I think of myself.
Regards
AC