Steorn is open -Panacea has a license

[thedude]

sceptical?

Just like Joseph Newman, Bedini invented everything. Do either of these guys have a $0.00 monthly electric bill.

I followed both of these guys for many years. "build it and see for yourself ... it's free for all humanity..."

Charging a battery, documenting the charge power (not just energy - power being the rate at which energy is used, produced, etc.), then running a motor on that battery and blowing wind, while charging another battery with BEMF, while running some LEDs and then saying "hey look, overunity!!" is silly. For one, I have NEVER seen anyone measure "pulse energy" correctly (save use of the scopes during "Orbo"). All I see is people buying clamp-on current meters and saying "LOOK ... OU!"

These OU guys never answer questions directly. It's always cryptic. If they had anything, they would NOT be "DEAD", they would be RICH and would be HEROES to the the rest of the world.

Oh, and Mylow ... that fish line thing was an attempt at deception ... not "..do this or else..." by some MIB turds.

Can you tell I'm pissed. Well, no, I'm concerned about so many good people being lured into false hope.

[Gmeast]
Gmeast, I have to assume that you have seen what John Bedini and Rick are willing to ship out their 10 coil Kit?

You can see device and they have given away the technology. John has tested the device publicly. You also have to try and remember that I believe John has been gagged before with regard to his work with Tesla technology in the past. Truly, i don't believe that John or Rick deserve your speculative criticism, which at this point is unfounded given your level of understanding of his device and where the OU effect actually takes place. I don't know how much of his work you have actually replicated but you may be forgetting about adding some of the other variables into the equation, when considering what is being produced. What i have been able to build has actually reinforced the principles of radiant energy that John has claimed.

John has actually been one to thwart scams in the past. I trust him.

Believe me I'm not trying to start a debate with you Gmeast, I guess we have different opinions about what is possible.
[/Gmeast]

As far as Steorn is concerned, I think it is a shame to discount or discredit their claims at least until Ash can give us more to talk about. Otherwise shedding doubt here is only going to serve to turn people away from a possible and viable technology.

Just my thoughts. Don't mean to be argumentative at all.

[ashtweth]

Well, well, well,

Why did I NOT see this coming? The ONLY champion of open source I had seen ... EVER ... has now joined the ranks of the "NOW WE KNOW BUT CAN'T TELL" club. ".....we got a Sponsor $$$$$..."

I known one thing, STILL no one has shown a true OU device anywhere, anytime. I am sure even John Bedini still pays a regular electric bill every month.

I also know this. In the early 2000's I installed PV solar. One installation was on my brother's house. He used to pay over $240/mo and the bill is now $79/YEAR. I also designed and installed half a dozen 'stand-alone' systems ... they are energy independent. Wind, PV, Thermal, Wave, Tidal, Hydro, Smart Design are things we can do NOW and have had that ability to do so for DECADES.

As far as anything NEW goes, I'm placing my bets on LENR, Cold Fusion, CANR or whatever you want to call it. This technology is producible in a jar and produces power on the levels beneficial to a 'person', personally beneficial ... that of heating and lighting an environment.

Bye,

Whoever

Hi Greg, we are the only open source non profit influence in their forums and any contribution we make there we help wake people up to the themes we present, support all and get validation to help ALL.

So we are still helping and doing our NORMAL job, its not my fault that they are not open source , we are trying to influence them in the best way we can, if you have any ideas on how the non profit org can help them i am happy to hear them, i understand that there is frustration about the device, but please, its not our fault we are doing every thing we can for now Thanks mate.

This weekend, we work on 2 open source vaporizers, Rose's open source circuit, the GEET and many others, we will not be neglecting what we NORMALLY do, this is actually EXTRA work for us to help Steorn.

But we want our community knowing if it is the real deal, I understand if this is not a good idea in your book Greg, i respect that, but we have to do some thing. Who else will?

i think its great we have all shared resources to get answers, in the Case of Steorn, the open source community did it PERFECT, we are building next week guys, ill post our positive or negative ASAP.

Ash

[ashtweth]

BTF_LAYOUT_Gp-01
Orbo kits for licensed members...

Ash

[teslaproject]

????

BTF_LAYOUT_Gp-01
Orbo kits for licensed members...

Ash

OMG...a book?...the amazing story of Orbo?...You are kidding me right Ash?!

I have a LOT of self control when it comes to the 'wait and see' dept but this is building to stink of a real marketing ploy.

The amazing story of Orbo....give me a freaking break. I have more amazing things going on in my lab that I'm not writing to Womans Day about.

Let us know when you actually get around to verifying something.

TP

[thedude]

Teslaproject

OMG...a book?...the amazing story of Orbo?...You are kidding me right Ash?!

I have a LOT of self control when it comes to the 'wait and see' dept but this is building to stink of a real marketing ploy.

The amazing story of Orbo....give me a freaking break. I have more amazing things going on in my lab that I'm not writing to Womans Day about.

Let us know when you actually get around to verifying something.

TP

Once again. This kind of post is COMPLETELY unnecessary! What are your motivations for posting here Teslaproject? Do you actually have something to contribute? Or is it simply your goal to discredit technology you know nothing about yet?

Ash has shelled out the cash for the benefit of our open source community. Why on earth you would feel it necessary to criticize his efforts is beyond me. Ash is not affiliated with Steorn and he was simply pointing out a link to more information in his previous post.

If you are a sceptic with regard to Steorn or the Orbo technology then that is fine. But could we at least have a chance to look at it with out a preconceived layer of doubt spread upon the subject.

OK....sigh...I'm relaxing. Sorry Ash.

[witsend]

Once again. This kind of post is COMPLETELY unnecessary! What are your motivations for posting here Teslaproject? Do you actually have something to contribute? Or is it simply your goal to discredit technology you know nothing about yet?

Ash has shelled out the cash for the benefit of our open source community. Why on earth you would feel it necessary to criticize his efforts is beyond me. Ash is not affiliated with Steorn and he was simply pointing out a link to more information in his previous post.

If you are a sceptic with regard to Steorn or the Orbo technology then that is fine. But could we at least have a chance to look at it with out a preconceived layer of doubt spread upon the subject.

OK....sigh...I'm relaxing. Sorry Ash.

I'm with you here Dude,

The investment in any research takes time, courage, money and patience. But it's the courage part that earns my respect and gets my vote. The neck is really out there - open and exposed - when it comes to even investigating an energy breach claim. And it's only this forum that seems to give such claims a kind of safe harbour protection. They give it a 'chance' that is otherwise not readily available. It's easy to throw criticism and doubts at any project. But it takes balls to investigate claims and to do so impartially. Ash is definitely adding to our knowledge base. And he definitely has that courage.

Thank you Ash and thank you Panacea. Personally I'd be more than ready to rest on your endorsement of this technology - or otherwise. If it works then we'll at least be in a position to know if the investment is worth it. You're definitely adding to that pool of knowledge.

[teslaproject]

Relax

Once again. This kind of post is COMPLETELY unnecessary! What are your motivations for posting here Teslaproject? Do you actually have something to contribute? Or is it simply your goal to discredit technology you know nothing about yet?

Ash has shelled out the cash for the benefit of our open source community. Why on earth you would feel it necessary to criticize his efforts is beyond me. Ash is not affiliated with Steorn and he was simply pointing out a link to more information in his previous post.

If you are a sceptic with regard to Steorn or the Orbo technology then that is fine. But could we at least have a chance to look at it with out a preconceived layer of doubt spread upon the subject.

OK....sigh...I'm relaxing. Sorry Ash.

Take a pill Dude. I don't see anywhere in my post where I "discredited" anything. I'm merely questioning the validity of selling a book before the 'story' is even complete. It's as laughable as these 18 year old Hollywood starlets who write a 'life story' on themselves before they have barely even accomplished something.
Not that I actually give a damn what you or anyone thinks but for the record, I believe Steorn has something but the way they are going about it is incorrect.
Any insecurities you have are not my problem. I won't bother to argue the matter further.

TP

[Michelinho]

Hi teslaproject,

After reading your comment above, I was wondering if you have read the book in question before bashing it?

If not, I don't see how you can evaluate its content or its intent.

Read the forum rules and ponder on them. The no rule forum is the OTHER ONE.

Take care,

Michel

[ashtweth]

Take a pill Dude. I don't see anywhere in my post where I "discredited" anything. I'm merely questioning the validity of selling a book before the 'story' is even complete. It's as laughable as these 18 year old Hollywood starlets who write a 'life story' on themselves before they have barely even accomplished something.
Not that I actually give a damn what you or anyone thinks but for the record, I believe Steorn has something but the way they are going about it is incorrect.
Any insecurities you have are not my problem. I won't bother to argue the matter further.

TP

You should learn to be diplomatic and a respectful way of contribution, plus to investigate all the story before commenting on you knowing about Alan and the contents of that book. if U dont care what any body thinks here then you dont belong on this forum mate. This forum is comprised of more friends than enthuses BTW, perhaps you are in the wrong forum. I hope you change your attitude.
You can read my posts from now on. Wake up and have some manners.

Sincerely
Ash

At ALL. BTW we have a kit from that site on the way and the solid state parts get here this week, will run it on super caps and do load tests for all

[Ted Ewert]

Hey Ash...
What kind of COP does Steorn claim for their ORBO? I understand how it runs, but I don't see how they can get a whole lot of torque out of that thing. It would be interesting to put a prony brake on it, but I suspect you guys will run it through it's paces.

Ted

[ashtweth]

Hi Ted!!, The interesting thing is as the speed increases the efficiency does, Sean claims infinite efficiency just a practicality of parts and engineering capacity.

The solid state must say is VERY impressive. Check out this vid my friend, this tiny beast is 327% OU, so 327 COP.
YouTube - Steorn Orbo - Proving Overunity

We have the rotor one on order now form one of the forum members and will put the solid state to the COP test.

[Harvey]

Hi Ted!!, The interesting thing is as the speed increases the efficiency does, Sean claims infinite efficiency just a practicality of parts and engineering capacity.

The solid state must say is VERY impressive. Check out this vid my friend, this tiny beast is 327% OU, so 327 COP.
YouTube - Steorn Orbo - Proving Overunity

We have the rotor one on order now form one of the forum members and will put the solid state to the COP test.

If memory serves, I think Sean stated a gain of about three on EM version and that includes the thermal energy produced. So both seem to be around the same factor of 327% or a gain of 3.27 (I think Ash forgot a decimal there).

So what that means, is if we put in 1.5 watts of power, we would expect an output of 4.9 watts. A portion of that output energy is expressed in rotor motion being sustained, and heat in the coils and friction surface points (which in their system are very small radius contacts on the top and bottom of the spindle - so very small friction losses).

Regarding the EM ORBO:
The principle of input energy is such that it is proportionate to the angular displacement of the rotor. Therefore, as the rotor increases in speed, the time that the energy is delivered is shortened. However, the number of times the energy is delivered is increased. This relationship holds the input energy constant through a large RPM range.

The principle of the output energy is such that it increases with RPM. Therefore a theoretical point exists where the output energy exceeds the input energy. Steorn has demonstrated this empirically but evidence seems to have been buried in the CEMF trace explanations and unfortunately has not been as overwhelming as we would all like. I see two reasons for this. One is a general misunderstanding of where the extra energy is coming from, and the other is a scaling problem.

One of the foreseeable future constraints to this technology is the time involved in getting the magnetic flux to properly engage and disengage as required at the higher RPM's. There will be a point where the fields will shear instead.

Like any technology in its infancy - there are always challenges to getting it into a consumable form.

Here is a variant form I designed. It conserves the BEMF and reduces Joule heating in such a way as to greatly reduce the input energy.

Click for Larger Pic
It also maximizes the real source of positive torque to the system.

Click for Larger Pic

Pay no attention to the calculation error up there if you spot it - I know it's there and I left it in to see if anyone else would find it.

[tjnlsn255]

On the multi-coil drawing above I assume you have two bus bars A and B for all the connections instead of seperate wires to A and B from each coil?

Do you have the mechanical information for the rotor and timing switch or is this coil configuration activated only by the passing magnets on the rotor?

Do you have one pair of NS magnets on the rotor to match up with each coil position?

As the number of coils and magnet pairs increase I assume the torque of the rotor will increase?

Are these toroid coils? Are they mounted horizontal or vertical?

Hopes and Dreams.....

Tj

[Ted Ewert]

@ Harvey.
Like you, I figured they would have to have virtually continuous stator coils in order to produce any usable torque.
The coupling is efficient for only a very short distance. Since electric motors produce the most torque at low RPMs, this is where the coupling is criticle.
I've been working on this problem of magnetic coupling for a while now, which is why it jumped out at me when I saw how this motor worked. The magnetic field between the two rotor magnets is going to be fairly narrow. This means it won't start to interact with the toroid core until it's pretty close. That makes a smaller window of attraction between the two.
I assume that the toroid simply saturates its core, which would then release the magnets. Since it's a toroid, there would be no external magnetic field to interact with the magnets, as there is in a monopole motor.
I wonder what core material they use? If it's ferrite, it would take less power to saturate, but it wouldn't be as "attractive" as a higher permeability material would be. There must be an efficient trade off there somewhere.
Do you plan on building one Harvey?

Ted

[Harvey]

Hi All,

First thing I would like to mention is that my proposed motor above is not an authorized 'Steorn Orbo' motor but it does share a common ground between the Peter L. attraction motor and the Orbo in that all three use magnetic attraction for the torque source and it does tend to neutralize Lenz effects by the dual polarity configuration.

In answer to the previous questions, All points 'A' are bussed together and all points 'B' are bussed together. So all coils charge together and collapse together. Thus the EMF produced by the collapse is directed to recharge the power source. By preventing this energy from moving through the coils after the collapse, it greatly reduces the Joule Heating present in the Steorn arrangement. However, it does represent a large inductive pulse from the parallel current involved. The triggering is done by any preferred method such that the coil is energized just as the magnet stack centers with it. IMHO, the preferred wave form driving the coils should be a sawtooth such that the energy charges the coil as quickly as possible, but delays the discharge long enough to allow the magnet stack to escape easily.

I also have a sequential version in mind that will use a rotary wave around the ring to keep the attraction ahead of the magnet stacks. That design has more coils than magnet stacks and uses electronic sequencing.

The core does not have to fully saturate, but it needs to be occluded by the coil field. Contrary to popular belief, there is an external field on toroidal coils, but it is weaker and greatly dispersed compared to the internal field. This external field envelops the entire external surface of the core with a perpendicular flux to the magnet stack and essentially shorts a fair portion of the magnet stack flux so that it cannot reach the core. At the same time, the core becomes more susceptible to the coil field than to the magnet stack field, so that the Weiss Domains do not react in an attractive mode to the magnet stack field. This dual action releases the magnet stack an allows forward momentum to carry it onward into the attraction zone of the next core. I don't believe I can share the core material information that Steorn uses, but I can tell you that I have seen some interesting experiments done by JL Naudine using a specific type of core material easily located by internet searching.

The magnet stack is comprised of many horseshoe magnets stacked next to each other in a NN-SS-NN manner. You may notice that a very large horseshoe surrounds the stack. This could be made from parts and does not necessarily need to be a single contiguous piece. The long rod could be any highly permeable material. You may also notice that the pole surface of the magnets is concave - this is to focus the flux into a straighter alignment to match the core width at the set distance (focal length) thus providing a stronger attraction (thus more torque) in the last few degrees of motion leading to alignment.

Torque is a leverage equation. The longer the lever (the bigger the wheel) the more torque you get for a given force. However, the trade off is distance - that force must go farther. But in the case of the wheel, that opens up more space to add more force points. So yes, more coils and magnets = more torque. There are some obvious restrictions associated with very large rotors. Moment of inertia, bearing support, physical space etc. But it does provide a means to apply a lot of small forces and get a larger overall torque. These equations and concerns are addressed in the Steorn SKDB E-Learning which is available to Ash and other members. You can also find the root equations here: HyperPhysics

One of the common mistakes associated with angular calculations is forgetting the difference between degrees and radians. Most equations of this type are in radians. My drawings above are in degrees.

I do not currently have the ambition, time or resources to build and test this design. But I will be happy to assist any who wish to take on the endeavor.

I will be adding a link to the above drawings for larger versions of the pics.

Cheers,

Harvey