Obtaining radiant energy from electricity: help

[MrMagAmp]

Hi guys,
I'm trying to replicate the first part of the Don Smith Circuit.
I have found some similarities comparing the Tesla, Don Smith and Karl Palsness circuits. In all of those circuits, I have found this:

Source of High Voltage-----Spark Gap------- Capacitors-----

So, I think this is a way to obtain radiant energy using the method "Capacitive Fractionation" of the electromagnetic energy. Remember that Tesla said that we can obtain radiant energy from the ambient (inductive fractionation) or from the electromagnetic energy (capacitive fractionation).

The process is easy: from a source of high voltage (better if is at high frequency) you nedd to put the spark gap and 2 capacitors in parallel. Then, the energy that is after the caps, is radiant energy. The capacitance of the caps must be very low, to make a very short discharge and prevent the current saturation of the circuit. Remember that tesla said that the discharge must be very short, because if a reversal of current happens, then, the radiant effect cannot be manifested.

I have made a circuit that a friend told me using a 555 astable circuit, and a transistor. But something is wrong because the light bulb doesn't lights.
See the attachments for more detailed information.

PS: I understand very little about electronics, maybe something is wrong?

[MrMagAmp]

The problem seems to be in the transformer.
I have removed the transistor and the 470 ohm, and I have connected directly a light bulb to the output of the transformer.

I cannot light any light bulb in the output of the transformer. But the square wave pulse works good because If I connect a little 12 Volts light bulb to the output of the oscillator (without the transformer and without the transistor), it lights. But when I put the transformer, the light bulb doesn't lights.

[citfta]

Transformer

Hello

It is interesting that you have the name MrMagAmp as a MagAmp is a kind of transformer. Well anyway you are correct. The transformer is your problem. You are using a regular transformer designed to operate at 60Hz and you are trying to get a 10 Khz signal to go through it. The inductance of that transformer is much to high to allow a 10 Khz signal to pass through it. To get a transformer to pass a 10 Khz signal you will probably have to wind your own transformer. It should probably have a ferrite core or an air core for that frequency. Hope this helps some.

Good luck, Carroll

[sucahyo]

To get a transformer to pass a 10 Khz signal you will probably have to wind your own transformer.

Or remove the core like what I did.

However that 9V 0.3Ah is too small to not to be saturated easily. I think it is better to use bigger transformer. Who knows that if you can improve efficiency, you can get spark at the primary. Since the voltage may not be too high, the spark gap need to be smaller than 1mm.

A warning, if you make spark gap at primary, the energy leak to everything connected to it that will bypass diode or capacitor. I fried 6 computer fan already just because of spark at primary.

[Raui]

I suggest you look at Steinmetz work as you'll see the link between all this. Displacement current plays a big role in the hair pin circuit, it's the dielectric equivalent to magnetic induction. I refer to it as dielectric induction because you get more of an idea of what it is.

Dielectric induction is measured by;
P = e0(dE/dT + dP/dT)
Where;
e0 = electric constant
E = electric flux
P = Polarization of medium

Which results in a current flowing through the wire. The spark gap acts as a voltage controlled switch and thus the time factor in those equations. The quicker the time it switches and the higher the flux (voltage basically) the more current you get flowing through the wires. It's behind Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter and I believe it to be behind T Henery Moray's radiant energy aerial system. You've found a big part of the puzzle, now get reading those books of Steinmetz to get more of a understanding! Also check out; http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post90621 which is a list I've compiled with the various different publications that would be helpful. A few of them are quite mathematic, Steinmetz publications aren't extremely daunting though

Raui

[MrMagAmp]

@sucahyo and citfta
Thanks you very much for the information. I have just starting to learn electronics 2 weeks ago. That could be simple, I know. But for the moment I will try to get more theory on the free energy science. I will post information here, because I think I'm better explaining complex information in simple words, than buildind a 555 oscillator. I will learn both in a future, but for the moment I want to share some information. I think it could be more helpful for the people of this forum.

@Raui
Thanks very much for the usefull book compilation. I knew that Steinmetz's books are excellent, but I thought they were very complex to understand.
I have to read more and, of course, explain more.

Thanks for all guys.


For the people that want a more simple explanation, I will say that what I'm trying to do in this circuit is a Tesla´s Hairpin circuit. But instead using the configuration:
AC source----Transformer----SparkGap----Capacitors

I want to use:
Battery----Squarewave oscillator----Transformer----Spark----Caps

It's the same as the hairpin circuit, but using the schematic I have just described I can perform the test using a battery, instead the AC plug of my home. The key is to extract radiant energy from the battery. The hairpin's output is radiant energy. Don Smith system, it's the same. In the first part his circuit produces High Voltage, High Frequency. Then, there is a spark and a cap. But instead of using a light bulb to demonstrated that radiant energy exist, Don Smith uses 2 coils. The first one is emitting radiant energy, and the second one amplifies the radiant energy (the same mechanism of a Tesla's Coil).

Instead of magnetic inductiion like in the classic theory (magnetic or electromagnetic?) of the transformers, Don Smith uses a Dielectric Induction.
Radiant energy is pure voltage and can perform usefull actions "work". I don't like to say work because work requires voltage and amperes.

I think I have explained it good. If not, ask me the questions.

[leedskalnin]

My 2 Cents

Dear MrmagAmp

I modified your schematics a bit If you can please do this new experiment on this new schematic.

The diodes used in that fashion to show you that there is not any electron flow and by using a bulb and connecting it to ground should get it to lit. Please at first use the neon bulb instead of the light bulb and when you got result replace it with the mentioned light bulb. You can use one of those capacitors in series before light bulb too.

I must say that you do not need essentially the spark gap. the key to making radiant energy is to charge a coil and let it to be collapsed in an open circuit and in this way the radiant energy will be guided to light bulb(or neon) then to the ground and if you have not suitable ground you can connect the bulb to to a great metal plate to conduct the radiant flow properly.

Hope be useful
P.S. use high voltage diodes or low voltage diodes in series.

[Harvey]

Hi Magamp,

Did you notice the second spark gap at the top of the hairpin circuit?

This is really a type of Jacobs Ladder with load lights in between instead of arcs. If I remember correctly, Tesla used Arc-Lamps in there which produce a very wide band of EM output, both in the visual spectrum (full white light) and in the radio spectrum (can jam local radio stations). The gap at the very end is to protect the capacitors in the case that the lamps don't fire and is selected at a gap below the capacitor breakdown voltage. Additionally, the gap in the center also is an over-voltage protection for that side of the capacitors.

The circuit operates on a simple principle of resonant action. The transformer secondary is chosen to be very low resistance to stop losses, and the capacitors are chosen to be very high Q. These 3 resonate back and forth and the voltage at the coil - capacitor junction skyrockets to thousands of volts in a very short period of time. On a zero ohm section, operating at 60 Hz, I have simulations that approach 500,000V in about 20 seconds. But when adding realistic resistance, these circuits reach about 4KV in that amount of time. The primary side is simply the pump to keep the resonance going.

If you want to do something like that with your parts, first you need to drop the frequency to match the transformer, down to 60Hz. Then, make sure your secondaries wires are short and fat to keep the resistance low. Next, determine the resonant value needed for the two capacitors. Essentially the hairpin portion acts as an antenna load and you are pushing one antenna while pulling the other, back and forth at 60Hz. So you want capacitors that allow that resonant action. It is a type of series LC tank.

When you do this you will have more Radiant energy than you know what to do with.

Tesla's Comments On This

[juju]

hmmm

mrmagamp, i will try to replicate this one to.. if you dont mind...

just a doubt...

i have a transformer from a sound system... it says here:

I/P: 220V~50Hz (231 Ohm resistance)
D/P: 10V~1A (0,8 Ohm resistance)

will it work with this circuit?

hugs

[sucahyo]

Instead of magnetic inductiion like in the classic theory (magnetic or electromagnetic?) of the transformers, Don Smith uses a Dielectric Induction.
Radiant energy is pure voltage and can perform usefull actions "work". I don't like to say work because work requires voltage and amperes.

If pure voltage is needed then spark have to be avoided at all cost. I think the goal should be corona, easier if using sharp point. Corona is a state where link is established between spark gap and and current is very small. Spark will introduce loss.

Tesla spent great deal of effort to eliminate common spark and to rectify it. See my thread
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...not-spark.html

Modern scientist report more anomaly on Corona instead of spark.

Spark is not your goal, Corona is.

[Raui]

mrmagamp, i will try to replicate this one to.. if you dont mind...

just a doubt...

i have a transformer from a sound system... it says here:

I/P: 220V~50Hz (231 Ohm resistance)
D/P: 10V~1A (0,8 Ohm resistance)

will it work with this circuit?

hugs

I would suggest using a higher voltage transformer. This is supposed to be a step down transformer for starters and it's not always wise to use a step down transformer for stepping up. Best bet would be to find an ignition coil or another higher voltage output transformer as the electric flux and therefore the dielectric inductions are proportional to the voltage. That said it could theoretically work for lower voltages but you'd need a lot higher switching speeds.

For example, say a ignition coil puts out 15,000VDC and is applied to a conductor once every second and your transformer is rectified and the waveform smoothed to make a perfect dc source and puts out 220VDC. Our ignition coil puts out a dielectric induction of value 15,000 over a certain area. In order to achieve this at 220V our switching needs to be faster. To get the same amount of dielectric induction we need to consider the following.

dE/dT (which is basically change in electric field, or voltage, over time)

Plugging in our numbers which an unknown of T gives

15000/1 = 220/T

1/T = 68.18181818Hz

So basically for every one time you switch 15,000vDC you have to switch 220VDC by a factor of 68.18.. Which might seem okay 68.18 hertz isn't that hard to achieve by any means BUT appreciable effects are only noted when we have a high frequency. Just to put it into perspective we'll say 100,000Hz is a high frequency. At 220v we'd need a switching frequency of 6,181,818Hz or 6.182MHz which is something slightly harder to obtain, at least reliably. If you use high voltage you can try Tesla's method of obtaining voltages of any desired frequency but charging up a capacitor to a desired voltage and having a gap of specific width and therefore breakdown voltage. When the voltage stored in the dielectric of the capacitor is enough to jump the gap, and I don't necessarily mean in a spark or arc, you get energy transfer. It will but this has it's limits in terms of frequency which is where magnetic quenching comes in handy Tesla claimed that he could get nanosecond impulses from this setup (thats 1Ghz!).

So I think the point I'm trying to make is quite clear, stick with higher voltages for this style setup :P If you really want to experiment with lower voltages try DrStiffler's SEC. Good luck with your experiments

Raui

[MrMagAmp]

I will reply you after Harvey, I'm going to the dentist right now. :S

Juju, you can do it. I put here the explanation because I know here are people that have a good knowledge about electronics. I'm starting to learn electronics.

For the rest:
I mean this:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


radiant energy is the only form of energy that can be amplified. Radiant energy is pure voltage (yes that's is possible). Electromagnetic is voltage + amperage. But amperage are the loses in form of heat. It's not necessary the amount of electrons flowing in a circuit.

Eliminate the "dielectric antenna". I have put that picture because It was the easiest example to understand. But basically is what Don Smith is doing. Don Smith uses like an hairpin circuit and the ouput (radiant energy) is amplified using a tesla coil. Then, the radiant energy is "transformed" to electromagnetic.
Instead of using this system:
Electromagnetic input----> Electromagnetic amplified INCORRECT

Don Smith does this
Electromagnetic-----> Radiant energy----> Amplification of radiant energy----> Transformation radiant to lectromagnetic.

You need to make radiant energy, amplify it and then transform radiant to electromagnetic. Trying to amplify the electromagnetic directly is not possible and you will always get COP<=1.




See the similarities with the Tesla Hairpin Circuit and Don Smith system:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Don Smith
DC Electromagnetic energy (battery)---> Inverter ---> High Frequency (neon tube driver)---> Spark+Capacitors

Hairpin
AC Electromagnetic energy ---> transformer (10KVolts) ---> Spark+Capacitors

Don smith uses a variac to increase the voltage to 10000 volts also, smith also increases the frequency. But hairpin and don smith are the same.
Instead of using the light bulb like hairpin, use a tesla coil and amplify the radiant energy.

Kapanadze system is very similar to this, but kapanadze has developed a more complete system.

[juju]

?

I would suggest using a higher voltage transformer. This is supposed to be a step down transformer for starters and it's not always wise to use a step down transformer for stepping up.
Raui

but if you use a step down transformer reversed, you will have a step up transformer right?

i dont need very high voltages.. i only want to light up a 220V bulb.

i have lots of parts here, because im a computer technic, do you know some equipment where i can get some higher voltage transformer that you mention?

what amount of resistance should the primary and secondary coil have? sory if im bothering you with silly questions, i dont know the theory, im only an experimenter...

big hug my friend

[boguslaw]

I will reply you after Harvey, I'm going to the dentist right now. :S

Juju, you can do it. I put here the explanation because I know here are people that have a good knowledge about electronics. I'm starting to learn electronics.

For the rest:
I mean this:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


radiant energy is the only form of energy that can be amplified. Radiant energy is pure voltage (yes that's is possible). Electromagnetic is voltage + amperage. But amperage are the loses in form of heat. It's not necessary the amount of electrons flowing in a circuit.

Eliminate the "dielectric antenna". I have put that picture because It was the easiest example to understand. But basically is what Don Smith is doing. Don Smith uses like an hairpin circuit and the ouput (radiant energy) is amplified using a tesla coil. Then, the radiant energy is "transformed" to electromagnetic.
Instead of using this system:
Electromagnetic input----> Electromagnetic amplified INCORRECT

Don Smith does this
Electromagnetic-----> Radiant energy----> Amplification of radiant energy----> Transformation radiant to lectromagnetic.

You need to make radiant energy, amplify it and then transform radiant to electromagnetic. Trying to amplify the electromagnetic directly is not possible and you will always get COP<=1.




See the similarities with the Tesla Hairpin Circuit and Don Smith system:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Don Smith
DC Electromagnetic energy (battery)---> Inverter ---> High Frequency (neon tube driver)---> Spark+Capacitors

Hairpin
AC Electromagnetic energy ---> transformer (10KVolts) ---> Spark+Capacitors

Don smith uses a variac to increase the voltage to 10000 volts also, smith also increases the frequency. But hairpin and don smith are the same.
Instead of using the light bulb like hairpin, use a tesla coil and amplify the radiant energy.

Kapanadze system is very similar to this, but kapanadze has developed a more complete system.

Great ideas ! Surely radiant energy need to be magnified, but how create radiant instead of electromagnetic ? Do you think that two capacitors circuit is enough to generate radiant ? Maybe it rather generate RF electromagnetic waves ?

[Raui]

@MrMagAmp
Great diagram, looks like you're getting it. I have a question for you though, are you going to make the transformer like shown in the diagram you've posted or the conventional primary -> secondary -> top-load?

but if you use a step down transformer reversed, you will have a step up transformer right?

i dont need very high voltages.. i only want to light up a 220V bulb.

i have lots of parts here, because im a computer technic, do you know some equipment where i can get some higher voltage transformer that you mention?

what amount of resistance should the primary and secondary coil have? sory if im bothering you with silly questions, i dont know the theory, im only an experimenter...

big hug my friend

Yes that's correct but the transformers design is designed for 220v being the highest voltage. Things like the dielectric strength of the material surrounding the winds, wire size, etc. play a big role on what voltages you can put on the primary and receive on the secondary. Say you fed the secondary with 220V and the voltage amplification is then 22 (because when used normally its 220 on primary and 10v on secondary so 220/10 = 22) 220v x 22 = 4840v. Big question is, will your transformer handle 4840v on winds that are only designed for 220v and how will your secondary cope with 220v considering it's designed for 10v.

The best place to get a high voltage transformer if you're in the computer industry is out of computer monitors. Google 'flyback transformer' for more information.

As for you're resistance question, at this point it's not really that important. For now your focus is just to produce dielectric inductions and experiment with them. You can start experimenting with resistances once you're comfortable with how dielectric inductions behave. You're questions aren't silly, any genuine question posted on a forum like this isn't because you're just trying to seek knowledge you don't yet have and what's so silly about that

Raui