John Gs Wheel

[Cloxxki]

Indeed. I seen lengthy discussions on track car forums, whether larger brake pads made any sense for later braking. I suppose for longer wear yes, later braking, no.

[john_g]

Harvey
Thanks for the links - will look. I'm still waiting for some materials, ali bar etc, to arrive and also there has been a death in the family so I will be tied up this coming week. I'm am quite convinced Bessler did it and it is reproduceable. The impact of making a gravity device would be incrediable. I dropped my son off today at a club he goes to, and I spent an hour or so sitting by a river in the sunshine. I thought what if you can get rotary motion for free ?(except the cost of the machine). It actually delves into every facet of our life - it would be world changing. Try a logical diagram of the concept - it is endless. A good strap-line I think is Ash's - “If you create your own electricity, heating and water systems, you create your own politics. Maybe that’s what they’re afraid of.”

Regards
John

[Harvey]

John, sorry to hear of the loss of a family member, please accept my condolences.

Meditating alongside the river - sure sounds nice.

We'll be here when the time is right

[sprocket]

I seem to recall that this was pretty much what a large part of the Archer Quinn thread on OU was about. And the fact that "they" deemed it necessary to wheel out many heavy-hitters in the Newtonian physics department to debunk him! I wouldn't have believed it but for the fact that I saw it for myself - one debunker, not having posted on OU for over 2 years, was suddenly averaging 17 posts per day, and massive 'made-for-flooding' posts at that, only never to be heard from again once the 'crisis' had passed...

Another thing that made my jaw drop was that video posted here on Energetic showing how capacitors really operate - and more understandably, Eric Dollard's disgust at our amazement! I was taught that charge was stored in the plates and I've never seen a text book that explicitly suggested otherwise.

So, it makes one wonder, first, why the need for misinformation, and second, how many more "established truths" of the same ilk exist...

[john_g]

Video 1

Hi All

I have posted up a video on the energetictube of my progress so far.
Link at :EnergeticTube.com*-* Where technology goes LIVE!

Any inputs welcome.

Regards

John

[Harvey]

Hi John,

Good Video!

That hub is some really good work on allowing pass through, I like that.

There is some really good innovative thinking going on there on the mechanical interconnections. Somehow, and I don't know why (maybe from my days training in basic archery) the bands remind me of a compound bow. If you've ever pulled one of these, the stress curve is really a work of art. I wonder if somehow, such a mechanism could be applied to store energy in your wheel to release at a different location. For example, when the weights are at the bottom of the wheel, we add energy to the system from an external source (flywheel perhaps) to cock the weights into a hub proximity and then when they are at TDC we release the tension to extend them out to the rim.

Also, on the pass through stuff, it reminded me of the Mondrasek (sp?) Wheel and an experiment I did once upon a time with a small cylinder magnet in an acrylic tube. I thought I had a video of that experiment on you-tube but I guess it's not there so I will describe it. The tube had an ID slightly larger than the magnet diameter so the magnet would slide very freely inside the tube. I wrapped a rubberband lengthwise around the tube to keep the magnet in and held the tube vertical. This test was a specific magnetic shear test, so I introduced another magnet of the exact same type into the field orthogonally with like poles inverted - that is, the tube had N facing down, and my mover had N facing up. The elevation of the mover was such that the pole surface was even with the bottom of the other magnet in the tube. Bringing the magnet into the field in this approach, regardless of the timing, always resulted in an allowed ingress all the way to the tube. The pressure great through that process, but at a specific point, the coefficient of friction on the side wall of the acrylic would be overcome by the opposing axial forces of the magnets and all at once the entire sum of the stored energy of the egress would be released and snap the tube magnet to the other end in a sudden burst. It did not matter how fast or how slow I approached along that shear line, the tension would always hold until the friction gave up like a switch being flipped. This force is so great that there is no doubt in my mind that it can be used to move a weight from one end of a wheel to another against gravity. The caveat is that we are only trading energy tit for tat with some frictional losses. The benefit is that it provides a way to store magnetic potential from a gradual long distance tangential action and apply it to a single rapid radial motion at a specific point. It is these types of transformations that allow machinery to perform work.

Looking forward to your next video!

Cheers,

Harvey

[john_g]

Thanks for that Harvey. Good thought about linking to a bow. More innovation when I get time to do it - which uses the dead weights to contribute - hopefully on the weekend. Also thanks for your kind comments a few posts ago.

Sprocket, back to your last post -As luck? would have it at the funeral, there was a teaching engineer and also the head of the physics department for one of the UKs top universitys. I discussed with them both the history of the Bessler wheel and also radiant energy etc - For them this was totally new ground, they found the Bessler wheel story very interesting in a genuine sort of way.

[john_g]

Quick update

Hi All

Been busy with work etc so have not made as much progress as hoped. I have attached a compass rose onto the hub (photo) which makes it much easier to compare movements accurately. Also making up aluminium blocks (photo) to hold the weight arms, as the wood ones were starting to fail / wear just during testing. Maybe the blocks should have been of oak rather than pine with metal inserts, but aluminium will be stronger.

I need to find a way to use or reduce the shock of the swinging weight hitting the rim. Hopefully video by end of week with some ideas. I have no doubt that Besssler did it.

Regards

John

[Harvey]

Thanks for the update John.

If the swing arms were somehow attached to the axle with overrunning clutches that prevent them from moving backwards relative to the axle, then the weights could strike any type of resilient material on the the rim to absorb the shock and the rebound would be transferred to the rim by virtue of the overrunning clutch. But there could still be some measure of backlash in the mechanism.

With a properly tuned system the weights would come to a full stop (relative to the rim) at the point where the spring (or other resilient material) is fully compressed between the weight and the rim. Because the weight could not move backwards relative to the axle, this gives the spring a push off point and that accelerates the rim without the big impact force.

Just a thought

[john_g]

Hi All

A quick update of progress so far on my wheel, uploaded onto energetictube:

Video 2: - Covers brake and restraint to make wheel easier to work with.

Video 2 - EnergeticTube.com*-* Where technology goes LIVE!

Video 3:- Method of comparing when movements operate and easy way to take and calculate moments on wheel.

Video 3 - EnergeticTube.com*-* Where technology goes LIVE!

Video 4:- Current mechanism showing negative side can be of use and some ideas for improvement.

Video 4 - EnergeticTube.com*-* Where technology goes LIVE!

No self runner yet but working on it!

Kind regards

John

[Harvey]

Thanks John - Good Stuff

I wonder if a small line level would help improve the accuracy of your moment scale - it did look though that what you have is adequate enough to give you the necessary feedback on positions.

I can see that you are a real thinker

There is no doubt that gravitational potential energy is being converted in your setup to both angular momentum and kinetic energy in the weight movements. There may be something to that idea of storing energy in the spring until you need it to lift the weight back up. I truly believe that it is precisely these types of energy conversions that allow us to extract energy from conservative fields, like gravity and conservative forces like springs. By converting between them we break the process into non conservative parts allowing extraction in the middle of the process and forcing path dependence back into the equation. This is probably why some have found success in the dual pendulum mechanics etc.

Can we convert time to energy? This is a difficult thing to understand - but energy is a time derivative value. A joule is 1W per second. A watt is power, a Joule is energy. This means that if we get 1W per half second we just doubled our energy to 2J . When we take a long time to do a given amount of work, the power we apply is averaged over that time and that represents the energy we spent doing the work. If that energy is stored, then we can release it all at once. No man can compress 1 ton of springs in one second unaided by some mechanism. But he can take time to compress several hundred springs individually, and use that stored energy to be released in one single action to lift 1 ton in one second. But in the strictest sense of the actions involved, we are only moving energy around between forms over different periods of time. We convert muscle force to spring pressure and it takes time to do that, but once the spring is latched the energy is not applied to anything and time stops where the energy application is concerned.

So it is actually the same energy on both sides of the equation with only time changing. You can burn a 100W light bulb for 1 hour or a 360,000 W Arc for 1 second, and the energy involved is the same - only the time has changed. Many systems (including Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter) that purport over unity gains, are really time averaging systems. Like the oscillator in our cameras that we hear charging up so we can take another flash.

Why all this discussion about time? Because in a balanced wheel of enormous mass, it only takes a very small imbalance to get the entire wheel into motion - like Peter's penny on the rim. But that small force takes a very long time to build up an acceleration. The gravitational force on that penny is constant and would like to accelerate that penny accordingly. Therefore the force involved is only that on the penny, everything else is balanced and nets to zero as far as the gravitational forces go. But as the penny accelerates, so does the total mass of the wheel, it accelerates with the penny. Therefore, a force exists as torque on the axle of the wheel that is relative to the mass of the wheel, not just the penny, because then entire mass is moving. Where if it were linear we would calculate the force as F=ma, in rotation we have torque = Ia where I = the moment of inertia of the wheel.

So the question arises: If we apply the force of one pennyweight to a massive wheel for a long enough period, will the big mass wheel gain energy? And if so, will it be greater or equal to the energy of a penny moving that distance? If the penny is attached, the surely the entire wheel must match it's acceleration. But perhaps that acceleration will be far less than 9.8m/s˛ and if so, then this entire thought experiment may be a wash. But if the mass of the wheel is accelerated otherwise due to the time involved, then perhaps we have converted time to energy, stealing it from the gravitational field which is literally a curvature in space by which time follows causing the centripetal force we call gravity.

[john_g]

Thanks for comments

Hi Harvey

Thanks for your comments. Yes a spirit level on the measuring stick would be preferable for accuracy, and a plumb-line could be added /used for the vertical ’jobber’.

Re your time/ energy conundrum I’m still thinking about it! However what I am after is a significant bag of penny’s quickly driving the wheel.

Regards

John

[Harvey]

Hi Harvey

Thanks for your comments. Yes a spirit level on the measuring stick would be preferable for accuracy, and a plumb-line could be added /used for the vertical ’jobber’.

Re your time/ energy conundrum I’m still thinking about it! However what I am after is a significant bag of penny’s quickly driving the wheel.

Regards

John

One test I want to do, is take a completely balanced horizontal beam with heavy weights on each end and add the pennyweight to one side and let it drop that 90° so the beam is vertical - at the bottom, I would like to measure the impact force as the weighted beam strikes a stop block.

What will the result be? Possible scenarios:
1. The force will equal the gravitational potential energy of the penny weight

2. The force will equal the momentum of the heavy weights.

3. The force of 1 & 2 above are equal.

My wish is that #2 > #1, but we are taught otherwise. Just something I would like to prove to myself - because I have this nagging feeling that once you get a train rolling, it is hard to stop it, and in a balanced arrangement like that the weights represent that extra mass. I guess theoretically, the balance beam will not accelerate to a velocity beyond that provided by the force of the pennyweight and #3 above would be true.

[john_g]

Hi All

My tests have lead me to this set-up - which I think is quite promicing. Shown here is one, of a final 4 or 8 lever sets. Yellow object is a weight that can either be on arm end or under the scissor, and maybe operating with the opposite lever. The scissor link is the other weight pushed in and pulled out. Will write up more later, but it is easy to get the scissor to lock out.

I claim a first on the rotateable blackboard!

Regards

John

[Harvey]

Hi John,

Thanx for the update

Yeah! That rotating blackboard would be good for plotting spirals

Elementary Calculus: Example 1: Length of a Spiral



Since energy is a function of time, can we change the timing of a wheel and alter the energy exchange? If a weight on an unbalanced wheel falls at one rate, but rises at another does that change the energy? It would seem that work (energy) can be time dependent, or distance dependent. W = Pt or W = fd. Is there a way to convert time to energy while allowing the power involved to net to zero? IOW, same power up and down, but longer time on the down stroke?

I am envisioning two flywheels back to back. The front flywheel is imbalanced, has a single weight on it. As the weight is allowed to drop, the force is transferred to accelerate the back flywheel and is allowed to fall at a slow but accelerating rate. At bottom dead center, the energy in the second flywheel further accelerates the first so that the rise time of the weight is less than the fall time. Because the weight is in a constant state of acceleration and a time differential exists between the fall period and the rise period even though the Gravitational force is the same on both sides, does this give us a way to extract energy from the field?