gravity waves found

[FuzzyTomCat]

i am sorry about not getting back to you sooner, let me say first i tried to borrow the same camera that took both the video and still shots with...no luck...about the offer, with all of whats being said about this being normal and all...i just would hate to waste your time and resources...do not get me wrong, i would love to get my device live...also my device #1 is ugly, unbalanced, and has these hokey 2 by 4s on it ...it looks like crap...it works well enough, but i would like to get #3 built first....i dont blame you for withdrawing your offer....i know that what i see is new and the copper ring, i think if other replicators can get this effect also, it would be better than me trying to do expirements...just yet anyways.....so you can withdraw your offer i will understand....but if you could wait just a bit ...i would love to take your offer.....and again i am sorry.....david

Hi David,

Thank You for the response, I just wasn't sure about your feelings on a "LIVE" broadcast with your silence, but now that I know for sure that your up for it, there's no problem with me waiting until your ready.

In the mean time I'll get my laptop computer ready for a "remote" broadcast, questions or experiment requests from myself and forum members to get prepared for the event.

I'm also going to see if I can scare up a older SVHS camcorder one without any CCD parts, so there is a digital and analog camcorder available for the demonstration of "your" experimental device, so it will also take me a little time to get ready also.

Best Wishes,
Glen


EDIT - I forgot to tell you, any type of experiment that may be requested by myself or a forum member, you will know in advance, prior to any "LIVE" broadcast and all of course with "your" approval.

[Harvey]

@Solrey,

Sorry, but I am not confusing natural convection with buoyancy.


Please note the following excerpt from Convection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The onset of natural convection is determined by the Rayleigh number (Ra). This dimensionless number is given by
where
Δρ is the difference in density between the two parcels of material that are mixing
g is the local gravitational acceleration
L is the characteristic length-scale of convection: the depth of the boiling pot, for example
D is the diffusivity of the characteristic that is causing the convection, and
μ is the dynamic viscosity.

Without g (gravitational acceleration) it doesn't occur.

[Harvey]

convection does not happen without gravity...so a spherical flame at zero G radiates its heat 360 degrees, that is zero G, zero movement....if you move the flame, then inertia is artificial gravity, and the flame will look stretched...ive gotto show a friend my device.....david....yep he sees it too...

I agree

Note the following quote from the same webpage in my previous post:

Flames and convection

In a zero-gravity environment, there can be no buoyancy forces, and thus no natural (free) convection possible, so flames in many circumstances without gravity, smother in their own waste gases. However, flames may be maintained with any type of forced convection (breeze); or (in high oxygen environments in "still" gas environments) entirely from the minimal forced convection that occurs as heat-induced expansion (not buoyancy) of gases allows for ventilation of the flame, as waste gases move outward and cool, and fresh high-oxygen gas moves in to take up the low pressure zones created when flame-exhaust water condenses.

[david lambright]

heat rises in a gravity feild

at zero G, there is no more rising of heat...the flame is a sphere..all the other stuff solrey said is pretty correct, but heat rising only happens in a gravitational field....at zero G everything weighs the same, zero....mass is not weight inertia is not weight...so what is causing rising hot air to ....well rise....david

[solrey]

so what is causing rising hot air to ....well rise

The density gradient of the atmosphere which is due to gravity.
Come on David, don't be so thick. This is eezybreezy stuff dude. At least take the time to read the links I post.


Harvey.
From the quote you posted about convection in zero gravity:

or (in high oxygen environments in "still" gas environments) entirely from the minimal forced convection that occurs as heat-induced expansion (not buoyancy ) of gases allows for ventilation of the flame, as waste gases move outward and cool, and fresh high-oxygen gas moves in to take up the low pressure zones created when flame-exhaust water condenses.

Thanks. Proved my point right there. Betcha didn't even realize it.

[david lambright]

thick

it is not as easy breezy as that....ok...forget the flame...lets try this...lets say you have a balloon filled with warmer air than the air outside the balloon...in a gravity environment, the balloon will rise right?.....that same balloon at zero G does not rise at all....but the temperature will equalize...radiation comes into play....you kindof have to think outside the sphere......so this rising is not connected to heat, it is connected to gravity....does anyone see what i am talking about?.....if we can make artificial gravity, by spinning, we should be able to make artificial levity also.....david

[john_g]

Rigid balloons

Just to add to the ‘fun’ I read, I think in the book, ‘The primary state of matter’, that the Germans in WWI devised a material for balloon gasbags, that was the same weight as the normal gasbag material but it was totally rigid, therefore all things being equal, it should have had the same lift performance as the normal gasbag material– but it didn’t. Apparently a rigid (non- flexible envelope) balloon will not lift up.

[david lambright]

mirage

most of the time, radiation is "invisible" or at least hard to see...we see the rising of heat as a mirage...in water we see it as a wavy distortion, but there must be a medium. we do not see gravity, but can see its effects....light and heat both radiate but light does not "rise"....my device makes the same mirage type effect, but with no heat...this is significant....using the schlieren method, i have shown that there is no movement of air causing the shimmer effect, there is no heat causing it either. it is not a chemical action. what we do know is that gravity has a part in heat wave shimmer....am i making any kind of sense here ??...david

[Harvey]

The density gradient of the atmosphere which is due to gravity.
Come on David, don't be so thick. This is eezybreezy stuff dude. At least take the time to read the links I post.


Harvey.
From the quote you posted about convection in zero gravity:


Thanks. Proved my point right there. Betcha didn't even realize it.

Well Solrey,

You have clearly proven that you would rather argue than learn.

We are discussing natural convection and why it is absolutely dependent on gravity. For some strange reason you want to generalize things and pretend in your own imagination that forced convection is the same thing as natural convection - it is not.

All I have proven, if anything, is that you get your terms mixed up either purposely for the sake of trying to make yourself appear superior in some way (which isn't working) or out of honest failure to see all the details. Whatever the case, the rest of us recognize the difference between natural convection and forced convection and the absolute dependence on gravity for natural convection to occur.

I'll be looking forward to the day when I can truly learn something new from you.

[Harvey]

most of the time, radiation is "invisible" or at least hard to see...we see the rising of heat as a mirage...in water we see it as a wavy distortion, but there must be a medium. we do not see gravity, but can see its effects....light and heat both radiate but light does not "rise"....my device makes the same mirage type effect, but with no heat...this is significant....using the schlieren method, i have shown that there is no movement of air causing the shimmer effect, there is no heat causing it either. it is not a chemical action. what we do know is that gravity has a part in heat wave shimmer....am i making any kind of sense here ??...david

Yes you are.

But to be fair, your Schleren tests should have shown comparisons - for example, to rule out air movement, you would have needed to demonstrate that your mirror could show air movement. The same is true for natural convection from thermal exchanges.

So unfortunately we still cannot rule out air density variations or thermal exchanges - all we can say conclusively is that your Schleren tests did not show those things. I had the same problem here with my tests. My mirror was not good enough nor large enough to see any effects even with a lit match. I don't think I posted any of my videos of those experiments.

[Harvey]

Just to add to the ‘fun’ I read, I think in the book, ‘The primary state of matter’, that the Germans in WWI devised a material for balloon gasbags, that was the same weight as the normal gasbag material but it was totally rigid, therefore all things being equal, it should have had the same lift performance as the normal gasbag material– but it didn’t. Apparently a rigid (non- flexible envelope) balloon will not lift up.

I read that Leonardo Da Vinci also had a similar problem.

In his case however, he was reasoning that air has weight, and creating a vacuum from the inside of a sphere would make the sphere lighter and induce buoyancy. IIRC, his spheres were made of Iron - so his experiment failed because the displacement was not sufficient.

From a scientific point of view, the rigidity is not a factor, otherwise ships would not float. It is more likely, that the displacement was insufficient in their case and the rigid enclosure prohibited the needed expansion to get to a proper displacement.

In modern day dirigibles, gases are used to prevent collapse. If we could construct a framework and surround it with a strong enough material, then a vacuum could be pulled on the vessel interior and it would be lighter than air by virtue of the displacement. I have designed such a craft using a titanium center support and lightweight carbon composite struts arranged in a staged hexagonal and pentagonal frame work. The exterior is to be overlaid with Mylar. At the proper diameter, the structure becomes lighter than air by virtue of the displacement. I just never had the ambition to build it.

[gravityblock]

Well Solrey,
We are discussing natural convection and why it is absolutely dependent on gravity. For some strange reason you want to generalize things and pretend in your own imagination that forced convection is the same thing as natural convection - it is not.

It would be interesting to know how experiments with aerogels would interact with David's device, since aerogels almost nullify the three methods of heat transfer (convection, conduction, and radiation). How will the glimmer effect or flame react with David's device and an aerogel?

Aerogels: The Materials Science of Empty Space. This is a long video, but at least watch the first 6 minutes on this frozen smoke (aerogel) if you don't have much time. Also, try and watch the related videos.

GB

[Harvey]

It would be interesting to know how experiments with aerogels would interact with David's device, since aerogels almost nullify the three methods of heat transfer (convection, conduction, and radiation). How will the flame react with David's device and an aerogel?

Aerogels: The Materials Science of Empty Space. This is a long video, but at least watch the first 6 minutes on this frozen smoke (aerogel) and the related videos.

GB

If you have ever had the opportunity to hold this stuff, it really is an interesting material - but extremely fragile.

[gravityblock]

The material itself has amazing properties and is really interesting like you said. This material will change the world once the costs of it comes down. For those who may be interested, at the 36 minute mark in the video I posted about the aerogels, it talks about aerogel's optical properties and at the 40 minute mark it talks about heat transfer.

GB

[david lambright]

air or gas movement

Yes you are.

But to be fair, your Schleren tests should have shown comparisons - for example, to rule out air movement, you would have needed to demonstrate that your mirror could show air movement. The same is true for natural convection from thermal exchanges.

So unfortunately we still cannot rule out air density variations or thermal exchanges - all we can say conclusively is that your Schleren tests did not show those things. I had the same problem here with my tests. My mirror was not good enough nor large enough to see any effects even with a lit match. I don't think I posted any of my videos of those experiments.

in a couple of the "shhlieren" vids you can see the butane flowing from a lighter, and a flame......david