C.o.p. >1

[Xenomorph]

@Groundloop:

Is the capacitor value 10.000 uF important for a possible oscillation (LC) ?
I have only something like 6000 uF lying around.
Running it with those 6000 uF and a battery that is sitting at 11.40 Volt.
When i connect the circuit the voltage drops to 11.25 Volt, but drops slowly
unfortunately.
That might be due to the fact that the battery was reconditioned with negative time charges
and might not wanna accept the positive impulses or some other reason.

Have you considered, expanding the circuit to an all-purpose charger, also for lower voltage level batteries?

[Groundloop]

@Xenomorph,

Probably not. I did use the first one I could find. The capacitor must only
be large enough to support a burst of oscillator pulses. Try out what you have
available.

Try increasing the 12K to a higher value. You want the circuit to "starve" for
current.

I will research more into this circuit and see if it is possible to make an
all-purpose charger.

Groundloop.

[Xenomorph]

This is a scope shot measured across the diode cathode and the minus rail.
It has a frequency of 2.4 kHz.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Is your frequency also in that range?

Will increase the 12k resistor now. My battery is probably stronger than yours (Its only 1 Ah). I tried up to 1.4 MOhm now.
I used a green ferrite toroid (only thing i had over the weekend).
I might make one with a scavanged PC-PSU iron powder toroid just as you did, to make sure the replication is maximally close to your set-up.

[Groundloop]

@Xenomorph,

Sorry, I do not have a scope right now. Will try to borrow one
tomorrow if I can. From what I can hear on my RF spectrum analyzer
then my main frequency is approx. 400 Hz. But there is over harmonics
up to many KHz. I have one strong RF at 280 KHz. My frequency counter
is saying from 280 to 450 Hz.

Iron Powder Toroids:

2 Mix (Red) 1-30 MHz, high volume resist. u=10
6 Mix (Yellow) 1-50 MHz, similar to mix #2. u=8
8 Mix (Yellow / Red) 1-50 MHz, replaces 6 mix. u=35
17 Mix (Blue/Yellow) 50-200 MHz, good Q. u=3
18 Mix (Green/Red) N=55, Low Core Loss, Similar to 8 Mix
26 Mix (Yellow/White) DC-800 KHz, great 60 Hz.

EMI range. Line 'em up on speakers / AC wires u=75
40 Mix (Green/Yellow) Power conversion similar to mix 26
52 Mix (Green/Blue) DC-1 MHz, high perm. u=75

I use a Green/Blue Toroid, 38mm diameter.

Groundloop.

[Xenomorph]

Okay the circuit is running, the MOSFET seems to be only firing occasionally
Groundloop if you can borrow yourself the oscilloscope, its certainly interesting to look at the interruption in the MOSFET signal.
I am at 20 kOhm resistance now, had a faulty connector before.

The good news is, the battery voltage is very slowly rising !
Scope shot (Look at the interruptions):



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Groundloop]

@Xenomorph,

That is great news! :-) I started to think that I was seeing things and that
nobody could replicate the effect. My voltage is still climbing, 11,91 now.
In today's test I have almost gained 1 volt in the setup. Not much, I admit
that, and you can't run your home from it, but it is a start. It seems that
pulsing the battery creates a gain somewhere. I have never seen this before.

I looked at the scope shot, yes, that is a starved current oscillator.

Groundloop.

[Xenomorph]

The voltage rise stopped now.
Gotta let it run overnight and see how it behaves.
At least this is the perfect circuit to test out non-linear components, which i plan to do in my next experiments.

[Inquorate]

@Xenomorph,

That is great news! :-) I started to think that I was seeing things and that
nobody could replicate the effect. My voltage is still climbing, 11,91 now.
In today's test I have almost gained 1 volt in the setup. Not much, I admit
that, and you can't run your home from it, but it is a start. It seems that
pulsing the battery creates a gain somewhere. I have never seen this before.

I looked at the scope shot, yes, that is a starved current oscillator.

Groundloop.

@Groundloop - you were starting to think you were seeing things... Hehe, people have been telling me I'm not in my right mind about this for ages.

Believe the facts

Xeno, :thankyou:

All

[Xenomorph]

There is probably a treshold of maximal charging with this method.
I remember Plengo researched this years ago too : YouTube - Charging the Battery Iteself UP 1 of 5

When working with heavily sulphated batteries, as long as the batteries are sulphated, the circuit will knock off the sulphation
and thereby allow the circuit to self-run and increase the capacity of the battery. So to say during that process it exhibits a COP>1.

It becomes interesting when you use a brandnew battery and check it with that one.

EDIT: Since the voltage reading did not move for an hour now, i decided to change the resistance down to 5 kOhm.
The signal of the scope shot above did not exhibit any radiant spikes when the circuit is too current-starved.
With 5 kOhm i get visible spikes and a sawtooth-like waveform similar to the one Plengo pointed out as working best for him.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[ewizard]

I was thinking the same thing that it is primarily knocking off sulfation which is why it leveled off a bit after an initial rise. The circuit below seems to do that using only the battery needing the desulfating. So I would guess this one might see a similar charge effect until the sulfation was largely removed.

[Inquorate]

then why did the voltage rise on my system, with new batteries? (just purchased)

Has someone got a new battery they can test for verification? I think it may level out due to impedence; Groundloop's circuit is an oscillation that feeds back to the same battery.

[Groundloop]

@All,

The voltage in my setup has dropped (down to 11,72 volt) during the night.
This supports the de-sulphation theory. I will set up the test again this
afternoon with two batteries where one is in series with the coil and see
what happens. It seems that it is not possible to both use current and charge
the battery at the same time. Sorry guys, it really did look like it worked.
I have posted the test log here: http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/Test4Log.txt

Groundloop.

[ewizard]

That would change things if new batteries are getting charged too. I'm hoping to build Groundloops circuit as I really need a number of batteries desulfated whether the circuit is OU or not. Just got for free a used $200 Optima 12 volt marine battery (the kind with 6 cylinders instead of a box shape battery) that I think will make a good test subject (has all signs of being sulfated) and some other batteries that are going to cost a lot to replace if I can't get them working again. I'm having a bit of trouble finding a BYV29-500 diode though. Any suggestions where to get one online in U.S. or is there a good substitute ?

[Groundloop]

@ewizard,

I think that any ultra fast diode that can handle the current you want will do.
The circuit does a good job on both charging and de-sulphating a battery
when running the circuit from a power supply. You will not need the extra
resistors and the pot meter when used as a regular charger. A fixed resistor
of approx. 180 Ohm at the gate of the mosfet will do. The battery undergoing
charging can be connected directly to the output coil.

I will be back this afternoon with more testing.

Regards,
Groundloop.

[witsend]

That would change things if new batteries are getting charged too. I'm hoping to build Groundloops circuit as I really need a number of batteries desulfated whether the circuit is OU or not. Just got for free a used $200 Optima 12 volt marine battery (the kind with 6 cylinders instead of a box shape battery) that I think will make a good test subject (has all signs of being sulfated) and some other batteries that are going to cost a lot to replace if I can't get them working again. I'm having a bit of trouble finding a BYV29-500 diode though. Any suggestions where to get one online in U.S. or is there a good substitute ?

Hi ewizard. This may very well prove to be the first application of this circuit based on purely pragmatic considerations. Such usually comes way down the line. Nice to see such a quick evolutionary progression of new technology.