C.o.p. >1

[Jbignes5]

@Xenomorph
I have doubts about the path bemf, in first desulphator i understand the path, but in second desulphator i do not understand the path, but both circuits operate. May be similar to the second circuit.

I propose this little proof for measure spikes (see if there are) with voltmeter across 15nF cap.

The replacement of the diode (ultrafast type) is to ensure that it is fast enough.

@Jbignes5
All testing is interesting, but I do not think it affects. In this circuit we have no spark. Or it may be because the temperature affect the charging? U tried it?

Regards

I haven't tried it but if it improved the arcing ability to disconnect the arc faster then it must affect the energy transmission across that arc space. This led me to believe that it could bring a fresh constant supply of whatever they think is entering the system from the environment.
It's a quick experiment to see if some kind of electronic smog is being formed around the device when it is operating.
Has anyone seen a residual charging effect using this method after the circuit is off?
Like I said it is a quick experiment that I thought would be relevant to a reducing charging, other then removing sulfates from the plates.
Why hasn't anyone made a clear battery case to see the inside reactions that we normally don't see? That would tell you proof positive if sulfates was being removed at all in this process and it would give you a clearer picture of the internal operation of the battery as it is being treated with these methods.

[Xenomorph]

@Xenomorph
I have doubts about the path bemf, in first desulphator i understand the path, but in second desulphator i do not understand the path, but both circuits operate. May be similar to the second circuit.

I propose this little proof for measure spikes (see if there are) with voltmeter across 15nF cap.

The replacement of the diode (ultrafast type) is to ensure that it is fast enough.

What 2 desulphators are you talking about? There was a couple presented here.
I can charge a cap (connected to the battery minus) with the diode connected to cap plus.

This is going nowhere like this. Without creating a possibility for nature to input significantly more extra energy into the circuit, this will stay COP<1.

[Jbignes5]

I agree

What 2 desulphators are you talking about? There was a couple presented here.
I can charge a cap (connected to the battery minus) with the diode connected to cap plus.

This is going nowhere like this. Without creating a possibility for nature to input significantly more extra energy into the circuit, this will stay COP<1.

But to prove that to them the only input is in their system itself... increase the flow of the outside environment and it should increase the the input that way. It would take two seconds to setup a fan to blow on the whole project to see if input is coming from the environment.

[Inquorate]

@Inquorate:

Can you give me your opinion on how to best collect the radiant energy with diodes from the coil?
I have a single coil through which a short current pulse is sent.
Thank you.
Xenomorph


This is how i have it right now:


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@ Xeno - I just had a couple of uf diode in parallel, between the coil and the 'out' or emitter, going to the negative of the battery. Why have you got one after the coil? I did have one there but it wasn't necessary. Ted Ewert has had considerable success using a recovery thyristor; a recovery diode means the 'spike' stays at battery voltage, but a zener diode would cause the coil to reach it's breakdown voltage before going to the battery. Ted usually knows what he's talking about, so might be worth a shot.

Edit Oh now I see what you mean.. It probably won't work; I am leaning towards the idea that the gains in my system being primarily due to the source battery resting between pulses, and the charge battery not having a chance to rest, developing it's own current etc, without going into the mode of giving up charge.

The only way I can think to have it work it to drain the battery in a series of short pulses into parallel caps, the series the caps and repeatedly spike the battery.. Let it rest and continue..

Http://inquorate.vox.com/library/pho...993af860f.html

But caps have quite high losses..

[eternalightwithin]

All caps?

There are some nice 0.4 mOhm ones at digikey

[Xenomorph]

@Inquorate:
If i find Ted´s circuit somewhere i will try to understand the concept and maybe be able to apply it. I just found something where he uses TVS diodes, but not Thyristors. Will keep looking.

[Inquorate]

@Inquorate:
If i find Ted´s circuit somewhere i will try to understand the concept and maybe be able to apply it. I just found something where he uses TVS diodes, but not Thyristors. Will keep looking.

Oops, tvs diodes not thyristors. Having a rough day,

I've been reading the exchange between Witsend and swm1998a with great interest, and some amusement. The amusement stems from my own research into this very subject, and finding both of your arguments valid even though they seem on the surface to be contradictory.
I did a fair amount of research into this phenomenon while trying to design a recovery circuit for my motor. It uses the basic SG pulse circuit with a recovery diode at the junction of the coil and the transistor.
I also wondered if the current could be reversed upon collapse of the pulse in order to recharge the supply cap. I found this was not possible as the current indeed wants to continue in the original direction.
Nevertheless, the less current I drew off the pulse, the more efficient the circuit became (less total current draw). I did this by allowing current to be drawn off the pulse only beyond a predetermined voltage. In the circuit below this threshold is determined by the base TVS doide (D3) of 68 volts. This always maintains some "back pressure" on the coil and raises the circuit efficiency dramatically.
I could only conclude by the evidence that the supply cap (C1) was somehow being charged by this "back pressure". This phenomenon would also apply to a battery, as Witsend claims.
I'm not sure at all why this occurs, but it does, and I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.



Cheers,

Te
d

[Xenomorph]

Wow that seems to realize exactly what i tried so cryptically to describe with cutting away the current portion after the spike.
I`ll try that. Just difficult to adapt the values for my circuit as thing will probably have to be downsized a bit.

[Xenomorph]

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It is difficult to design a circuit that is not consuming a lot of current and producing big spikes. In the effort to figure out TVS diode dimensions i realized that either my scope does not display the real magnitude of the spikes or they are only at a peak of -8 Volts (CH1 green )which appears to be really small.
I tried many different coils and the result is the same, i am sure that the MOSFET gets enough gate voltage (CH2 yellow), so i wonder how i can increase the peaks of the spikes ?!

EDIT: by removing a small resistor i had in the gate path to avoid MOSFET ringing, i could increase the spike to like 11 Volt. So it could be concluded that the CMOS555 just has a too small current to effectively switch the MOSFET. I`ll make a test now with a bipolar 555 to see what that changes.
However the current consumption of the bipolar 555 is simply to high to have hopes to charge the battery more than it supplies.

EDIT2: The bipolar NE555 did not increase the spikes, so this is not the reason.

[Zooty]

I think i might be getting cop>1 from my 'Dual Thief' I am planning on making this in to a Quad Thief tonight. I got the idea from a paper i read. Input current spikes of 32.1ma peak to peak @ 1.077v and output current spikes of 10ma @ 4.787v across a battery reading 1.191v and climbing. Last i checked, it was running at 145khz



Input Current@1.077v


Output Current


Output Voltage across secondary coil with charging battery connected.

[Xenomorph]

@Zooty: Good Luck!

Magnetic effects are probably the most promising OU candidate !

Out of curiosity: What does your circuit look like? Hard to recognize on the photo.

[Zooty]

Its 2 standard joule thief coils connected in parallel to one transistor the normal way but without a diode or led going from collector to emitter. one secondary winding across both torroids. All windings are 1:1

[Xenomorph]

I hope you will post a circuit diagram when you have further advanced this

[Zooty]

Here is the circuit i am using.

[Zooty]

Here is an improvement.



20ma@1.514v, 5 LED's