Reconstructing EM & Energy Theory from scratch

[Jbignes5]

interesting.

in both of your last posts, you describe a behavioural model. so, the question after this is simple.
do you have any FACTS, experimental data or anything that supports your writings ?
the data can be of any experiment or test run of the last 400 years that you know of as long as it proves your point,
else, these are just your thoughts and ideas an as such are not valid. yet.

Did you not follow my logic there? Does it make sense to you?

Look at a magnet and that is all the proof you need. The force is real the force is pliable and yet it is invisible. What can you tell me about that?
What you are looking for is impossible for even our theories to even try to explain. So what did they do? Nothing! It's magic to them..
I offer a valid logical explanation to explain this invisible force that is real, What do you offer that makes perfect simple sense? I remind you that nature has no brain that we know of. It is only reactionary. It does not change because it doesn't like you personally. It has to work in every instance and it has to work with certain other fundamental laws as well that relate to it's operation.
Just because we can not see the actual physical action does not mean we can not infer the actual operation of that invisible with simple logic.

[Agent.A]

i dont follow logic, i follow data. if you choose logic over data, well, im not gona break your line of thinking.

when i think ( my logic says ) that electric field is elastic for example, i dont follow this logic blindly,
i look at experiments that were done and their results, i look at history and its secrets,
i search for evidence and doing my own experiments to verify or disprove my thoughts,
and after finding those verifications, i say loud and clear -> electric field is elastic and all those who think otherwise are dead wrong.

logic may be flawed for whatever reason, data is just that, pure simple data, facts. bits of the big puzzle.

when there is no data, i revert to logic and use it very very carefully,
since i learned that logic ( what you may think is logic ) can take you to wonderlands and astray.

again, you described a behavioural model, it is an idea of yours, a thought.
do you have anything to support that besides logic ?
dont be offended, give me ( us ) anything that can make your points valid.

[juju]

i have to disagree...

@Sebosfato, I have to believe in the existence of ghost because my religion requires me to. As fortunate confirmation some of my friends or family can see them. When I hear same confirmation from different source, I accept it as truth.

When theory can not explain one thing, the whole theory should be considered false or spefically mention to only work at certain condition.

I believe we can change future. Big effort bring big change but human power is limited.

just want to share my tough about this...

i dont agree your words, human power is unlimited! maybe your human body, held in the 5 senses is limited, but our essence is counsciesness... and counsciesness have unlimited power and it is infinite, you have hudge oceans of it, at the source of mind, tought and "matter"! and counsciesness is not intelligence!

to explain better, have you heard about fractal geometry? its a pattern that you can find in all nature... and basically its an unpredictable function and way all structures have, that by looking a small part of the whole, you can see things about other parts.. and so the entire whole is contained in a part, and thats why scientists cannot find were a particle is, because its a reflex of all particles!

if you look at matter you can see that is just a perception of your 5 senses, and so just electrical signals travelling your brain, and like time both are "illusion", so i agree with sebosfato, its all happening right now. do you allready wonder how many things can be happening, but your perception simply dont alow you to see?

why do we see a solid world, if the particles are not material object neither solid? quantum physics revealed that an atom is 99.9% empty space, and if you take our solar system and put it in an atom, thats what an atom is directly proportional! if the particles inside an atom are just energy and information spinning at light speed voids. why the whole seems solid? because its just like an "hologram"!

it was proven to, that the atom system only holds because of a force created by vibrational frequencys fields, and if you change the frequency arround an atom, that atom will change to, so all that you do or think its changing the physical world arround you, this was proven with lots of experiments.

another thing that experiments show, its that in the quantum world or sub atomic level, reality behaves in accordance with the observer, this means we are really creating all arround us!

other, is when you shoot 2 electrons in oposite directions and only one of them have a magnetic field in his way, why the both electrons will change in the same direction if they were not "physicaly" connected? because they are all one! all connected!

im not saying that reality does not exist, in this world this is our reality, but you are a lot more that your physical body shows, and your counsciesness allready exist since the beggining of the universes and so your physical body its just a counsciesness conductor. In fact all of us are the creators and the concept of matter only drives you to feel separated of the whole, and not part of it, making your creation, be someone else creation!

AgentA may think this is getting of topic, but this is all related with energy, gravity and electro magnetics, since all sub atomic particle systems are energy and hold by this forces or another variants, what i think is that all them are the same!

maybe you can give your tought about what energy / electro magnetic forces are? i can share what i think of it to if you like...

hugs

[Agent.A]

please, by all means, do share. as long as you dont take this too much off topic.

[juju]

...

all i was talking is driven from energy, if you want to reconstruct energy theory from scratch..

first, you have to question much more deep than that...

second, you have to be mind open to accept everybody thaughts... by rejecting the others, you are only rejecting yourself!

like i sayd... intelligence, is not counsciesness!

keep it up

[Jbignes5]

No no...

i dont follow logic, i follow data. if you choose logic over data, well, im not gona break your line of thinking.

when i think ( my logic says ) that electric field is elastic for example, i dont follow this logic blindly,
i look at experiments that were done and their results, i look at history and its secrets,
i search for evidence and doing my own experiments to verify or disprove my thoughts,
and after finding those verifications, i say loud and clear -> electric field is elastic and all those who think otherwise are dead wrong.

logic may be flawed for whatever reason, data is just that, pure simple data, facts. bits of the big puzzle.

when there is no data, i revert to logic and use it very very carefully,
since i learned that logic ( what you may think is logic ) can take you to wonderlands and astray.

again, you described a behavioural model, it is an idea of yours, a thought.
do you have anything to support that besides logic ?
dont be offended, give me ( us ) anything that can make your points valid.

If you don't believe in logic then how can you understand anything. Even if the data is there you will be lead astray by the very fact that you can not follow what that data is showing. Logic is what logic is. It is a flow of data. Data that has been collected through our whole existence. You say logic can be flawed... Really then look where we are now. Data can be manipulated but pure and simple logic can not. Otherwise computers would not work.
We refuse to look at even the data of a man who was saying the same thing as I have. And this response is exactly what killed his logic. And trust me he wasn't wrong. We have been wrong all the time. We make up complex math to prove it as well and we ignore the other data as being transient. Well nature is very ordered. It works no matter if we are here or not. That is logic. We have done nothing but screw up nature and why? MONEY, GREED and the very last comment I'll say on this EGO!
Say what you want but this system we have is failing because it defies logic! It is data made to fit their profit margins. End of story.
I guess I'll go somewhere else because data can be fudged and data can be manipulated but simple logic no matter what you say is truthful. Anyways how does one get data if you can't see what is the cause of that data? That's not data that is exactly what you are looking for and if any part of that data isn't then it gets thrown away, discarded. Logic on the other hand is simplicity based on observation. Yes you can come to the wrong logic but then when it is compared to any other system or method it would not hold up. As for now I have not seen any logic that could explain it all except for a few who have been shoved on the back of the shelf just like you are dismissing my logic about "all" energy movement. Not just your data of electronics.

[Agent.A]

Jbignes5, im sorry, do you have some brain problem ? whats wrong with ya ?!

where have i dismissed your logic ? please show me the data to support this bull !

all i asked is a supporting evidence besides your logic to validate your line of thinking.
cant you do a simple task of finding this or that experiment or whatever data that will make your logic and thoughts more acceptable to the common joe ?

logic said that the world is flat,
logic said that the earth is in the middle of all,
logic said that passengers in trains will not be able to breath when it move over 40 KPH,
logic said that those noisy ugly things with four wheels and black smoke will never replace horses,
logic said that havier then air objects can not fly,
einstein logic told him that atomic bomb is imposibble,
logic said that and this and gazillion more thing that were all refuted by FACTS, DATA.

when ever you have something logical of scientific nature in your mind, you seek for data and facts and experiments to support it and prove it. period.
you do not prove logic with more ... logic.

come on, its simple, i'll repeat myself, i do NOT dismiss what you are saying,
i ask for data. plain simple data that can show that your logic is correct. is that so hard to understand ?

if you dont have supportive evidence and need some time to find it,
by all means, please do so and come back with full strength and knowledge and show here what you found.

in the mean time, your LOGIC, is only thoughts and ideas and nothing more.

[Jbignes5]

Logic did not say....

Jbignes5, im sorry, do you have some brain problem ? whats wrong with ya ?!

where have i dismissed your logic ? please show me the data to support this bull !

all i asked is a supporting evidence besides your logic to validate your line of thinking.
cant you do a simple task of finding this or that experiment or whatever data that will make your logic and thoughts more acceptable to the common joe ?

logic said that the world is flat,
logic said that the earth is in the middle of all,
logic said that passengers in trains will not be able to breath when it move over 40 KPH,
logic said that those noisy ugly things with four wheels and black smoke will never replace horses,
logic said that havier then air objects can not fly,
einstein logic told him that atomic bomb is imposibble,
logic said that and this and gazillion more thing that were all refuted by FACTS, DATA.

when ever you have something logical of scientific nature in your mind, you seek for data and facts and experiments to support it and prove it. period.
you do not prove logic with more ... logic.

come on, its simple, i'll repeat myself, i do NOT dismiss what you are saying,
i ask for data. plain simple data that can show that your logic is correct. is that so hard to understand ?

if you dont have supportive evidence and need some time to find it,
by all means, please do so and come back with full strength and knowledge and show here what you found.

in the mean time, your LOGIC, is only thoughts and ideas and nothing more.

First thing that is bull. What exactly is the title of this thread. You don't even follow that logic you defined. You said to redefine Theories. You are the one calling names. Bull is what you are doing. You no more want a Theory which is not based on data. It is logic. You my friend are no more logical then the rest. You want proof to a theory before that Theory has been completely written down and buddy it doesn't work that way.
When they said the earth was flat that was a theory that was proven wrong by people who knew it defied logic. You ask for Theories then shoot them down by saying where's the data or proof. Well if I had such data of the unseen it would be fact and not Theory.
What is the real intent of this thread. It is now a feeling that because my logic doesn't flow with your own theories that mine are wrong. Then you tell me to prove it to you. You want proof that this theory doesn't work then you go out and find the exact proof. I don't have nor need to prove anything to you. I have my proofs building up every day. I have the concepts that were passed to me. I expounded those into a unifying theory which no other has been able to prove wrong up to this moment with hard evidence. Meaning you haven't done such.
Oh and no one can prove a theory wrong using another theory. Only facts bring that theory down. And I'm sorry but what I based my Theory on was observations made by me and others who were more brilliant then all of us combined in this forum. One of those people is the man that is responsible for all us to be able to do what we are doing now. He has a reputation of knowing before it was manifested by his own hands. He is a person with over 700 patents in this country alone. How many do you have? Credibility being on a scale I would believe the one with more ability to think and make the actual device work on the first assembly. You want to understand more about where we went wrong then go to the man who new it was wrong. Not by Theories but by actions. Here is the link, Have at it.

"Experiments with Alternate Currents of High Potential and High Frequency" by Nikola Tesla

This includes a device of such that is the proof. It was built by him and observed by him and reported just the facts. I only took those reports and anything else I could read about him and figured out the rest using only simple logic. Everything I have based my own theories on came from the man who invented AC and then figured out that AC was doomed to ruin this planet.
I am in the process of making a device based on the clues he hid in plain sight. His experimentation was real and it was a progressive experimentation that led him to conclude that we were all wrong in most of what we thought was going on. They based those Theories and made mathematics as proof and yes they prove in the frame that they knew that they were correct. The problem is that no one will ever be able to see this action we are trying to find out. It is invisible because it is so small. My point of view are correct if you take in account that size matters and size can also be refered to as resolution of your view. I again give you the clue what happens on the largest of scales must in fact be true on the smallest of scales. It's called fractal geometry.
Let me ask you this. When you look up close to your monitor what do you see? Now move your big fat head back and tell me what you see. You can have the same resolution but if you change your perspective of that resolution your vision starts to make sense.
A tree can have light fall on it's leaves but if there is no sap to move that energy then it can not use that energy. It's pretty friken clear we have been lulled into a very non natural way of thinking. The Elders did not have this deception veiling this logic and to tell you the truth that brought them great wisdom.
So as I asked you before what is your true intention of posting this thread because obviously you do not want to talk Theories or even logical conclusions based on the very process you want to find......

[Agent.A]

oh my, i see that instead of productive thread, this became a dispute over theories.



the title of this thread is -> " Reconstructing EM & Energy Theory from scratch "
do you understand what SCRATCH is ? nothing, clean slate, empty space, zip.

let me remind you my very first words,

and by we, i mean that i hope that any one of you, guys & gals, that have the same feeling ( or not ),
will help and share your knowladge and wisdom and criticism and constructive ideas.

i dont claim to have a full understanding ( or anywhere near ) of the subjects,
i just see them differently from the main view points of mainstream science,
and with my views, notions and thinking, i belive that reconstructing them will benafit science and with that, benafit us.

as to my background in physics in general and other areas, im a self learner ( lucky me ) and
my goal here is to learn more ( even if im entirly wrong ) with your help and share what ive learnd so far.

im more then willing, in fact, im eager to have some brain storming with folks of the thinking kind.
i do NOT dismiss anything and i do not consider my logic to be any superior to anyones else logic. get that in you mind. im a very simple joe.

i hear and read and compare the new knowledge to my own and check what facts i know and what is bull and what i should fix in my own mind,
but before that, i ask from anyone that if they say anything to have some background and the ability to show what supports their thoughts and ideas.

there is a difference between supportive data and proof. if you cant understand this notion, well, we can not talk much.

what ever bla bla bla i'll write next, i HAVE supporting FACTS and DATA for it,
and about considering what is or is not a proof, well, that remains to be seen.

So as I asked you before what is your true intention of posting this thread because obviously you do not want to talk Theories or even logical conclusions based on the very process you want to find......

you are correct. i do NOT want to talk about theories and fairytails. i want to take all the facts of the last 400 years and rebuild the model, step by step.
and if in the process i have to consider some theory, then at list it should have some DATA or something to back it up. it is that simple.

[juju]

...

so, you only consider what can be measured...

in your point of view, if energy in the empty space was so small that you cannot be able to see/measure it using all the existing technology... than you will say that energy does not exist!

many have defy the old theories without proof, (because in its time was not possible to prove it)... but with data ther minds concluded, and yet they were right!

the magnet or copper alone dont have electrons with energy or electric current, but when a magnet pass a coil you have electric current... from where do you think the energy comes from?

it it is not contained in the mass of neither magnet or copper, whats the source?

[Jbignes5]

ok...

So the thread name of rebuilding EM & energy Theory is about facts? WTF you are an oxy moron....

You can not build anything unless you have a solid base or Theory to guide you. So Theory is not what you want what you want is just the facts... Well go look for the electron... Good luck in finding what you can not stop!

I have had enough of this you are a moron. You can't even follow your own thread and that is evident by everything you are saying. You bait people by posting exactly what we are doing. Rebuilding a Theory based on the our observation and the observations of other who came before us. Those facts have already been done by Tesla. Ignore it if you want but I will be building in another thread that does not pull the same crap that the current establishment does. You ask for Theory and then demand the facts. Well if you can not even get the gumption to walk out side and look at the facts that is growing around you then you are truly blind. No one is gonna do it for you.
Grow up and learn English. You posted this thread as Reconstructing EM & Energy THEORY. It would not be a Theory if you have concrete proof. WTF what a moron....
Most people know me and these statements are not how I like to present myself on these forums but if you can not understand your own thread title then you deserve the dunce hat and be left in your own corner.
Lots of luck with the bs you are trying to pull....

[Agent.A]

@juju

i consider much more then those things that can be measured.
im not closing myself in a box, im open to ideas.

@Jbignes5

since you established the FACT that im a moron ( is it a fact or just an idea of yours )
you are more then welcome to leave this thread and not show your face here.

bye bye, have a fun day.

[sucahyo]

What things you consider as facts?

I consider this as facts:
- John Bedini mention that switching the coil at positive will produce different electricity from switching the coil at negative, confirmed by some people here. This require atomic model that allow postive to be dynamic and move independently from the negative.

- One wire electricity. We can light up a neon bulb with only one wire, where other leg connected to short wire. Current atomic model assume that electricity created by moving electron. Since one wire electricity move the charge one way, electron will pile up at the destination and lack of electron at the source. This will cause destruction of source or transmutation of destination which I never seen happen even after hours of experiments.

- Orgone. A hollow tube can make hole in the sky (cloud buster). A box with layered iron and wool can tan human skin (orac). Some say orgone has connection to aura. I relate this to what Tesla felt when opening / closing switch. The effect is real, there is video, and many people confirm it. Current atomic model simply do not accomodate this.

In short, trying to explain Tesla like experiment with current atomic model would not give us solution.

When facts become fairy tale, its hard to hold to any theory derived from them. And science believe that pain felt, light seen by Tesla in his switched circuit is a fairy tale. They don't consider Garry Vassilatos book as data, only as lie.

I understand if many do not believe aura. Because to accept something as data, they may have to have theory too. Theory to approve data, data to approve theory. Chicken and egg situation, which is first?

Think of the wire as a hose. The battery is a vacuum pump that is only capable of maintaining a certain amount of pressure. The hose has holes all along it and around it's whole surface. When we turn on the pump, switch the circuit on, the battery starts sucking through the hose. All around the hose are little hose clips. Like o rings. The voltage statically aligns those rings to the wires holes so that it can draw more charges into the main hose.

What terms you use to call it? surely not electric current?

i dont agree your words, human power is unlimited! maybe your human body, held in the 5 senses is limited, but our essence is counsciesness... and counsciesness have unlimited power and it is infinite, you have hudge oceans of it, at the source of mind, tought and "matter"! and counsciesness is not intelligence!

Limited by numbers. One strong mind may win against hundreds, but may not win against million of opposing minds. Other people have counsciesness too. Unlimited or infinite is only a term we use when our digit is not sufficient to contain the number.

A collection of dots in a printed paper may look like a solid, and I would call it solid, it is just a perception but it is easier to say base to what we see.

it was proven to, that the atom system only holds because of a force created by vibrational frequencys fields, and if you change the frequency arround an atom, that atom will change to, so all that you do or think its changing the physical world arround you, this was proven with lots of experiments.

It do not have to be explained that way, not every frequency break them. We not exactly change it, but we forcing it, nullify it by other frequency.

other, is when you shoot 2 electrons in oposite directions and only one of them have a magnetic field in his way, why the both electrons will change in the same direction if they were not "physicaly" connected? because they are all one! all connected!

Is that a fact?

im not saying that reality does not exist, in this world this is our reality, but you are a lot more that your physical body shows, and your counsciesness allready exist since the beggining of the universes and so your physical body its just a counsciesness conductor. In fact all of us are the creators and the concept of matter only drives you to feel separated of the whole, and not part of it, making your creation, be someone else creation!

That is assumption.

[boguslaw]

Try to propose simple experiments to explain nature like Ed Leedscalnin did.

[Aromaz]

A small correction and info

SORRY - Removed