zero-point magnetic generator

[dj_schalk]

ok ive been trying to figure the mechanics behind this and im kinda confused on
how the magnets from the design from magniwork. wont the magnets lose theyre energy and it wont work? ive read every detail of the designs i just cant figure out what will drive it. cause if theyre lined up wont they just stand still. what would actually move it to create the energy. if im just dumb please help me in my ignorance cause ive read throught the plans like a million times. if anyone can help me id greatly apreciate it. so i can create one.

[Harvey]

ok ive been trying to figure the mechanics behind this and im kinda confused on
how the magnets from the design from magniwork. wont the magnets lose theyre energy and it wont work? ive read every detail of the designs i just cant figure out what will drive it. cause if theyre lined up wont they just stand still. what would actually move it to create the energy. if im just dumb please help me in my ignorance cause ive read throught the plans like a million times. if anyone can help me id greatly apreciate it. so i can create one.

Dj,

From what I've seen in the Magniwork PDF file (if we are both discussing the same thing) some fellows setup a company and worded their stuff in such a way that they have a legal out and can't be held liable for fraud. But most everything in that manual was taken from other sites on the internet, especially J.L. Naudine's site.

The advertisement shows a series of power conversion parts that convert electricity between several forms and eventually put it through an inverter to the house. But included in those parts is a standard, go to Home Depot and buy one, gasoline generator.

This gives the company a way to legally say "Never pay for Electricity Again" . . .

. . . yeah, because your paying for gasoline for the generator instead.

Most likely what you have is this:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromag.htm

Jean-Louise Naudine's Explanation:
The Mini-Romag explanation ?

Dave Squires Explanation:
Theory of the Romag Generator by Dave Squires


I'm with you, I don't see how it works either. But you may want to contact JL Naudine and ask him if he had any success with it.

Cheers,

Harvey

[dj_schalk]

Well i ment
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dan/Desktop/New%20Folder/48v8wntobl.html

its basically the same one from magniwork after i bought it >.> found it when looking for magnets lol.

but its shows parts needed. setup but however it doesnt seam to show me how to possibly do it correctly. cause i dont see how the motor would be driving but yeah it would produce electricity if i could figure how it could be driven lol.

[Harvey]

Well i ment
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dan/Desktop/New%20Folder/48v8wntobl.html

its basically the same one from magniwork after i bought it >.> found it when looking for magnets lol.

but its shows parts needed. setup but however it doesnt seam to show me how to possibly do it correctly. cause i dont see how the motor would be driving but yeah it would produce electricity if i could figure how it could be driven lol.

I think that document is located on your C drive.

Is this the one you are referring to?:
000 Permanent Magnet Generator Construction Manual (pdf document) free file download at fliiby.com

[dj_schalk]

I think that document is located on your C drive.

Is this the one you are referring to?:
000 Permanent Magnet Generator Construction Manual (pdf document) free file download at fliiby.com

er yeah ok well heres the exact pdf that im talking about

RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting

well download that. i uploaded it fer ya. since i dont have an email or anything to send to ya. but download those plan and review them for me. Tell me if i was just confused. thanks

[Harvey]

Yep those are the same scam guys - taking the work of others and selling plans to it.

Check my link - notice that the original persons are listed there with email contacts at the beginning of the document.

Dr. Smail Khennas smailk@itdg.org.uk

Soluciones Prácticas


I think the best thing for you to do is contact him directly and ask him if that generator is anything special.

I'll tell you what I see - I see a vehicle alternator like you would put in your car except the field windings are replaced with magnets and are always on. This means that it cannot be regulated dynamically except by RPM's. IMHO, you could save yourself a lot of building time by going to the junk yard and getting an alternator off of a car and modifying it. I think I've seen something on You-tube where that was done.

If you want to power your house you could just use one of these:
10,000 Watts Max/7200 Watts Rated Belt-Driven Generator Head

You'll still need to power it with something (like a 13Hp motor) but that will handle most of the power needs in a small 3 bedroom house.

Sorry Dj but I think you may have been scammed there.

[dj_schalk]

well this has the potential as long as i modify it. since the permanant magnets will lose theyre energy of course from the opposing magnetic force by this.
i intend to create electro magnetic charging, apart of the system for recharge of the permanant magnets. however >.> basically one machine that powers another machine that powers the first machine and a third machine that creates the energy from nothing. ive been studying nostop of some of the technology from lutec however >.> if i completly had theyre technology id use the electromagnetic generator + the Lutec Electricity Amplifier. which in turn would create 440% effecientcy and create many electromagnetic generators running into lea and feed it into the electric company and sit around all day getting money from the electric company lol. or sell these systems per household still hooked to the grid and charge monthly for maitenence or something lol but still way cheaper lol. >.> however with my current situation i intend to run a 10,000 rpm electric motor to run into a machine that im designing that creates extra energy , basically more than 100% using the strong magnetic force. energy created running back to charge the magnets while creating excess energy for the drill. ugh first thing ima do is go to bed tho ive been up for like 27 hours O.o if i get my device running ill proble put up videos and instructions for building it. idk lol interested in ur response or perhaps sugestions on my idea.

[Xenomorph]

What makes you think that the permanent magnets could loose "energy"?
Are you intending to heat them up in any way?
Or is the operation of the machine causing them to heat up beyond 300 degrees C?

[juju]

degaussing

xeno, even if you dont heat them.. the electro magnetic interactions will cause the magnets to loose ther strenght...

but it takes a lot, lot of years for that to happen, i think...

hugs

[jibbguy]

In "repulsion mode", even Neos will lose gauss. But using attraction mode is another story. It would all depend on the design, i guess... Since Mr. Christie refuses to show us his design... We have no way of knowing. His is only one of dozens we have seen... if it turns out his was a scam or somehow not viable; this is simply one less possible device to pursue... and in the end does not affect the ultimate possibility. "Sony BetaMax" 's ultimate failure to capture the home VCR market, did not prove that home video was "impossible"

According to a source close to Howard Johnson, a more significant problem was physical vibration: Which could build up quickly via harmonics and cause premature structural failure of the magnets from the "inside out" with hairline cracks. In fact, it was told to me that his method of solution for this problem was one of his most important and valuable proprietary secrets. But we would think these are mechanical design engineering problems that should be eventually "solvable"; and not "inherent".

As an aside, i often hear the worries about losing gauss when talking about the future potentials of "all-magnet motors".

I'm not so sure, that if it happened every year or so to a APMM used in a home, car, truck, boat, or airplane... that it would be such a terrible thing.

If there were hundreds of thousands of self-employed and small business "magnet rejuvenation shops" around to solve this, it would be a renewable services business opportunity for millions of folks in the middle class without the need for college education (even some of us HERE reading this)... Some of whom who could have been displaced from their careers by the "buggy whipping" of internal combustion and Diesel engines or other techs. And existing auto repair shops could do it, to replace the revenue they lost from their old favorite scams like "head gasket replacement" (hehee , they will still likely try to convince us that we need to change our "struts", when we bring it in for brake pads)

And in business, it is always more profitable to sell razor blades, than razors.

It is important for us to remember that everything about Free Energy is NOT a "panacea" (lol, sorry Ash, but u know what i mean), that we will certainly "pay" something, anyway. The obvious advantages are still there, we pay much less, and the middle class and working poor will be significantly less affected where it hurts them most by the costs of Energy. Hopefully, the monopolies and scarcity paradigms will be mostly ended too... and TRUE free market tenets will rule again. And of course, of great importance, we don't pollute our planet as much while doing so... by at least an order of magnitude.

And, if magnet motors could be designed in ways that could effectively use Ceramic magnets instead of only rare earth ones... This could be much better... With a kiln and power source, it would be possible to make them ourselves or at least in local small factories using available raw materials and equipment.

So what if a all-magnet motor (or one that also uses pulses) is significantly larger and heavier when using Ceramic magnets...? Lol, even so i doubt it would weigh as much as a "Chevy 350" engine block Does "efficiency" really have the same meaning any more?

But of course we would first need to find out if it is "possible". One thing we do know, is that Howard Johnson often used "combo" magnets, that had small neo "add-ons" attached to larger non-neo magnets (some ceramic, some Alinco, but also some cobalt; which were around for many years before selenium- or neodymium-based and the first of the rare earths to reach market by over a decade).

And using Ceramics or even Alinco would certainly negate the possible, and almost certain, problems of "Supply"... since rare earth elements really are relatively "rare", and the market was cornered on them several years ago by a Chinese & Japanese mining cartel (it appears to not be possible to invest in the Commodities Markets regarding rare earth magnet raw materials.. even the corporations that did the cornering are "privately held" and do not appear to have Publicly Traded stock offerings).

One thing for sure is, such a huge sudden need would put very intense pressure on "Demand".

And perhaps, in the end, magnet motors would be a relatively short bridge to better techs that come along....and may reign only "20 years", and not for over 100 as the "turd-boilers" have. At any rate, they would be far better than ICE and Diesel for us all

[dj_schalk]

In "repulsion mode", even Neos will lose gauss. But using attraction mode is another story. It would all depend on the design, i guess... Since Mr. Christie refuses to show us his design... We have no way of knowing. His is only one of dozens we have seen... if it turns out his was a scam or somehow not viable; this is simply one less possible device to pursue... and in the end does not affect the ultimate possibility. "Sony BetaMax" 's ultimate failure to capture the home VCR market, did not prove that home video was "impossible"

According to a source close to Howard Johnson, a more significant problem was physical vibration: Which could build up quickly via harmonics and cause premature structural failure of the magnets from the "inside out" with hairline cracks. In fact, it was told to me that his method of solution for this problem was one of his most important and valuable proprietary secrets. But we would think these are mechanical design engineering problems that should be eventually "solvable"; and not "inherent".

As an aside, i often hear the worries about losing gauss when talking about the future potentials of "all-magnet motors".

I'm not so sure, that if it happened every year or so to a APMM used in a home, car, truck, boat, or airplane... that it would be such a terrible thing.

If there were hundreds of thousands of self-employed and small business "magnet rejuvenation shops" around to solve this, it would be a renewable services business opportunity for millions of folks in the middle class without the need for college education (even some of us HERE reading this)... Some of whom who could have been displaced from their careers by the "buggy whipping" of internal combustion and Diesel engines or other techs. And existing auto repair shops could do it, to replace the revenue they lost from their old favorite scams like "head gasket replacement" (hehee , they will still likely try to convince us that we need to change our "struts", when we bring it in for brake pads)

And in business, it is always more profitable to sell razor blades, than razors.

It is important for us to remember that everything about Free Energy is NOT a "panacea" (lol, sorry Ash, but u know what i mean), that we will certainly "pay" something, anyway. The obvious advantages are still there, we pay much less, and the middle class and working poor will be significantly less affected where it hurts them most by the costs of Energy. Hopefully, the monopolies and scarcity paradigms will be mostly ended too... and TRUE free market tenets will rule again. And of course, of great importance, we don't pollute our planet as much while doing so... by at least an order of magnitude.

And, if magnet motors could be designed in ways that could effectively use Ceramic magnets instead of only rare earth ones... This could be much better... With a kiln and power source, it would be possible to make them ourselves or at least in local small factories using available raw materials and equipment.

So what if a all-magnet motor (or one that also uses pulses) is significantly larger and heavier when using Ceramic magnets...? Lol, even so i doubt it would weigh as much as a "Chevy 350" engine block Does "efficiency" really have the same meaning any more?

But of course we would first need to find out if it is "possible". One thing we do know, is that Howard Johnson often used "combo" magnets, that had small neo "add-ons" attached to larger non-neo magnets (some ceramic, some Alinco, but also some cobalt; which were around for many years before selenium- or neodymium-based and the first of the rare earths to reach market by over a decade).

And using Ceramics or even Alinco would certainly negate the possible, and almost certain, problems of "Supply"... since rare earth elements really are relatively "rare", and the market was cornered on them several years ago by a Chinese & Japanese mining cartel (it appears to not be possible to invest in the Commodities Markets regarding rare earth magnet raw materials.. even the corporations that did the cornering are "privately held" and do not appear to have Publicly Traded stock offerings).

One thing for sure is, such a huge sudden need would put very intense pressure on "Demand".

And perhaps, in the end, magnet motors would be a relatively short bridge to better techs that come along....and may reign only "20 years", and not for over 100 as the "turd-boilers" have. At any rate, they would be far better than ICE and Diesel for us all

ok well for my purpose once i get a we bit of funding for my project (cutting grass etc >.> impossible to get a job aroundhere unless you make it urself lol) anyways then ill start doing some magnet testing. and if atleast one way of the magnets if they work that is. one way not needing charging then i got something to work with lol. ifnot then id have to find a way to charge them while at the same time it is under use. or have it in a syncronized charge and release with purely electro magnets possibly needing to have it run tho at a waaaay higher rpm and then this system would problly require either a high dc volt battery to start it but it might become self reliant once intiated. thats what i think could be a possibilty. unfortuantly supplys are limited as now. So id have to use my little fan electric motor for testing as of now and test a few different magnets and hopefully i can also perhaps talk to some of the designers not plan sellers to ask a few small problems and perhaps theyd be nice enough to just tell me that. Apparently if theyre is any information thats convient on the web in google search it usally turns into having to pay for it and when you do it isnt quite what you expect lol. If i can get this going ima change that if i can for this anyways lol.

planstomakeitwork.jpg picture by dj_schalk - Photobucket


this is the url of my picture so you can look at it. any sugestions or ideas or anything to tell me that might makes this happen more effeciently or anything please help lol.

[Matthew Jones]

Even if magnets loose charge I highly doubt you would be able to measure it in your life time.

I have set that I pushed together sometime ago. Once a year or so I release them and do a paper clip test. No noticable loss. Its only been 3 years or so.

The biggest thing is are the magnets your using equal in strength. You can short out a ceramic magnet with a strong neo, but its hard to imagine a situation that wasn't intentional that you have to do that.

And, if magnet motors could be designed in ways that could effectively use Ceramic magnets instead of only rare earth ones... This could be much better... With a kiln and power source, it would be possible to make them ourselves or at least in local small factories using available raw materials and equipment.

You can make them yourselves. Several ways outside the normal way. Crush up neo's, build a form to the shape you want it. Add magnets to the begining and end in the correct pole. Press the material firmly and epoxy.
It takes a little wood working skills and a few trick's to make the epoxy release from the form, but you can make magnets at least as strong as most ceramics you purchase. and they can be multi poled, curved, ect.
They are not works of art though.

I am setting up my shop building that I just built. I'll break them out of the storage shed soon and show them off a bit.

Once you see the ease you can make them your head goes nuts with ideas.

Also Johnson's magnets cracked and fracture because from the way he stressed them on assembly. Its fairly easy to do especially with uncoated neo's.

Cheers
Matt

[Harvey]

Looking at your picture there Dj,

Are all the wheels turning the same direction?

If the design is such that opposite quadrants (top left corner, bottom right corner and vice versa) co-rotate and neighboring quadrants anti-rotate, so that they mesh like gears, then we observe a compression zone at the center where two negative effects occur simultaneously.

The first negative effect is the separation of the polar attraction. As drawn, the four wheels are in a state of balance - when they turn from this location, you are applying energy to offset the attraction of those magnets that are in closest proximity. This would happen in the center and at two places on the edges.

The second negative effect is the compression of like poles in opposition to each other as they move into the center area. This compression adds more negative torque to the effect already occurring in the first case. Because there is a push from corner to corner, it squeezes the magnetic flux connecting the side by side wheels making them hold there connection longer.

These two negatives could possibly be reduced by placing a magnetically soft (can change magnetic properties easily) iron material in the very center. This way, as the magnets approach the center, the iron material will provide the needed opposite polarity to draw the flux away from the negative bonds and repulsions in those zones.

If the right geometry and material density were found to null these two negatives, then you could actually have an asymmetric self running machine. This is because the predominant force would be one of attraction. There would be those two edge separations that also would need special attention. Like the center, those areas could use an Iron material also, but . . . they do not have merging magnetic fields to help pull them away from the material as they pass it. This is where some payment would need to made to the system like a pulse coil or some flux switch added to those points to help separate magnets from each other or the from the material as they pass it.

Once you get the dynamics of the magnetic interactions resolved, you then would need a means to extract the energy. Your design has two sides - it is not clear if the two sides are complimentary (N on one side S on the other) or if they are opposed with same poles on either side. If they are complimentary, then a fair portion of the flux will be short circuited to the compliment. However, this arrangement does offer the interesting advantage of creating a negative Lenz (see Lenz's Law) effect for each positive Lenz effect because of the duality of poles. Since these two effects would cancel, any negative torque that would normally be imposed by Lenz's Law is nullified and the magnets are free to move past your coils without fear of being slowed down by the Lenz effects. However, there is the odd situation that the extra eddy currents do result in extra Joule heating in the coils and their cores.

Suggestions for improvement of design:

Use horseshoe magnets. This conserves the flux path in a better way and also provides a strong hold point for higher RPM's. The poles would straddle the platter with the heel toward the center and the flux pointing radially away from the center.

Use Horseshoe cores in your coils. Again for the same reason of conserving the flux paths of two side by side complimentary coils.

SPECIAL NOTE ON RPM: You have mentioned 10,000 RPM - Klaus Halbach did experiments upwards of 80,000 RPM with his magnet designs, but he did not have fields meshing as you do. There is a finite time with which magnetic flux can redistribute itself and form a connection with other flux of the same density. When this time frame is exceeded, the flux will NOT connect and instead will shear. This is a force dependent phenomenon. If there is no counter force, the finite time is near C (speed of light) but the more force that is applied counter to the connection the lower the time. Two magnets that mesh up quite nicely at a few RPMS will simply fail to do so at very high RPM's. The force of their connection is tied directly to the angular velocity. The higher the velocity, the lower the connection force.

If you have any questions about any of this, please ask.

[dj_schalk]

Looking at your picture there Dj,

Are all the wheels turning the same direction?

If the design is such that opposite quadrants (top left corner, bottom right corner and vice versa) co-rotate and neighboring quadrants anti-rotate, so that they mesh like gears, then we observe a compression zone at the center where two negative effects occur simultaneously.

The first negative effect is the separation of the polar attraction. As drawn, the four wheels are in a state of balance - when they turn from this location, you are applying energy to offset the attraction of those magnets that are in closest proximity. This would happen in the center and at two places on the edges.

The second negative effect is the compression of like poles in opposition to each other as they move into the center area. This compression adds more negative torque to the effect already occurring in the first case. Because there is a push from corner to corner, it squeezes the magnetic flux connecting the side by side wheels making them hold there connection longer.

These two negatives could possibly be reduced by placing a magnetically soft (can change magnetic properties easily) iron material in the very center. This way, as the magnets approach the center, the iron material will provide the needed opposite polarity to draw the flux away from the negative bonds and repulsions in those zones.

If the right geometry and material density were found to null these two negatives, then you could actually have an asymmetric self running machine. This is because the predominant force would be one of attraction. There would be those two edge separations that also would need special attention. Like the center, those areas could use an Iron material also, but . . . they do not have merging magnetic fields to help pull them away from the material as they pass it. This is where some payment would need to made to the system like a pulse coil or some flux switch added to those points to help separate magnets from each other or the from the material as they pass it.

Once you get the dynamics of the magnetic interactions resolved, you then would need a means to extract the energy. Your design has two sides - it is not clear if the two sides are complimentary (N on one side S on the other) or if they are opposed with same poles on either side. If they are complimentary, then a fair portion of the flux will be short circuited to the compliment. However, this arrangement does offer the interesting advantage of creating a negative Lenz (see Lenz's Law) effect for each positive Lenz effect because of the duality of poles. Since these two effects would cancel, any negative torque that would normally be imposed by Lenz's Law is nullified and the magnets are free to move past your coils without fear of being slowed down by the Lenz effects. However, there is the odd situation that the extra eddy currents do result in extra Joule heating in the coils and their cores.

Suggestions for improvement of design:

Use horseshoe magnets. This conserves the flux path in a better way and also provides a strong hold point for higher RPM's. The poles would straddle the platter with the heel toward the center and the flux pointing radially away from the center.

Use Horseshoe cores in your coils. Again for the same reason of conserving the flux paths of two side by side complimentary coils.

SPECIAL NOTE ON RPM: You have mentioned 10,000 RPM - Klaus Halbach did experiments upwards of 80,000 RPM with his magnet designs, but he did not have fields meshing as you do. There is a finite time with which magnetic flux can redistribute itself and form a connection with other flux of the same density. When this time frame is exceeded, the flux will NOT connect and instead will shear. This is a force dependent phenomenon. If there is no counter force, the finite time is near C (speed of light) but the more force that is applied counter to the connection the lower the time. Two magnets that mesh up quite nicely at a few RPMS will simply fail to do so at very high RPM's. The force of their connection is tied directly to the angular velocity. The higher the velocity, the lower the connection force.

If you have any questions about any of this, please ask.

Could you in paint as i did show me the idea of revision in the best possible way you could. (sry im a little slow from visualizing things whiteout seeing the different angles and motion of the way ur trying to tell me with horseshoe magnets and the possiblity of that horseshoe not working properly.
i cant picture it please draw it for me ^.^ please.


Also you asked which way the wheels would be spinning i made a revision to it along with the one i alrdy posted so here it is.



im still a bit in the dark about how pulsed electricity works and im not sure exactly how that works so if you could draw everything your plans for revision are step by step id greatly apreciate that (please literaly step by step cause im a concreate thinker)

[dj_schalk]

Also if anyone can explain the durablity and the duration of how long a electromagnet can be run before it is unusable. i have many questions