What Do You Think--overunity ?

[magnetman12003]

Hi All,

For some time now I have been developing a different type of generator.
I am much further along than this video shows. What I need now is help from anyone who has a good understanding of the Bedini circuit. I am at the point now where my generator model is running away upwards with voltage exceeding 350 volts DC. It would keep climbing if the tranny could handle more power.

YouTube - WHAT DO YOU THINK?


Thats where my TIP 3055 transistor fails because the Neon lamp cant burn off fast enough the tremendous back EMF coming off the Bedini coil.

Above is my video and after you watch it please take a look ar my older videos which brought me up to this point. I did not get real serious about comparing input watts to output watts. I plan to spin a 2 inch diameter magnet before I do comparisons. By the way my input DC watt power is .96 watts with everything you see in operation. I use a 12 volt DC input all the time.

Can someone suggest a transistor that will better the performance of the tip 3055 and wont break down readily?

Tom

[Joit]

Hi lately i use a IRF840 Mosfet, it should work at the same way as the 3055,
has about the same costs for one and is rated for 500V.
I actually think there is not much different at the Transistors, only that they are different rated and pnp or Npn, but they work all like a switch, and protect the Enviroment from this nasty sounds, where my neigbour complains about allready,
because he need to play .. yawn.
But you can use also a reedswitch, when you dont have to high Frequencies.
And well not sure about your Video, i dont see to much there.

Oh well almost forgot, Maybe you place a second Bulb in serie or parallel there, that it takes more Energy away

[EgmQC]

Hi lately i use a IRF840 Mosfet, it should work at the same way as the 3055,
has about the same costs for one and is rated for 500V.
I actually think there is not much different at the Transistors, only that they are different rated and pnp or Npn, but they work all like a switch, and protect the Enviroment from this nasty sounds, where my neigbour complains about allready,
because he need to play .. yawn.
But you can use also a reedswitch, when you dont have to high Frequencies.
And well not sure about your Video, i dont see to much there.

Oh well almost forgot, Maybe you place a second Bulb in serie or parallel there, that it takes more Energy away

A transistor is Current controlled device and a mosfet is Voltage controlled device, that make a huge difference depending on the application you intend to use it. If you want to control the amp draw of a coil , with a transistor its really easy but with a mosfet you will need to make a chopper to do a equivalent circuit.

Best Regards,
EgmQC

[Farrah Day]

The voltage output by itself is pretty meaningless.

Realistically you have to compare power input to power output, which means you must put a load across the output voltage and determine the current draw - if any.

The little Joule Thief ccts can produce hundreds - if not thousands - of volts on secondary coils from small battery power supplies (as illustrated by JD with his corona discharge), but current draw is very, very tiny.

[nvisser]

The MJL21194 is the one prescribed by JB , but without a load like a capacitor you will blow any size transistor. The neon is there to absorb the energy and protect the transistor for short durations if your load get disconnected by mistake during experimentation.
With multi core coils the output energy will be so high that a neon will blow in seconds. This energy is radiant energy and is high voltage with little current and cannot be measured properly with a ammeter. A battery understands that energy and will convert it into OU if I am allowed to use that term.

[jibbguy]

I, and many of us around the world i am sure, think you've been doing great work on this subject!

And we thank and congratulate you

We've been watching the progression, from the "salad bowl" or even before and it has been facinating... To see very simple models for proof-of-concept turn into a sophisticated device with great promise. It is a great example of what Open Source and Human Ingenuity can do.

And i would state, that imo, showing "OU" at this point may not even be the most important aspect in the end. Simple high efficiency and "unique ability" are also important; as are basic concepts proved to work that can give thousands of Open Source folks out there new ideas for their own variants and paths. Sometimes all we need is a little boost in the right direction, to get us rolling

Especially, if this concept proves to be inherently more resistant to CEMF torque load-induced drag current increases than conventional motor geometries would be... As i thought it could possibly be, ever since we saw the earlier "salad bowl". It is something worth knowing, for sure.

As an example, should this "CEMF-resistance" of the design prove to be the case, this motor concept as a prime mover could make a fairly conventional permanent magnet alternator system considerably more efficient (especially if pulses generated by the alternator circuit could be directly used to energize the prime mover motor coils efficiently)... Even if the basic motor is not "OU" by itself. Any motor would have a "stall" torque level; but if torque levels under that can generate enough current to make the effort worth it (meaning increasing load torque without greatly increasing the motor current as is normally the case with conventional motors), you are in the money

Such a "looped" system may even eventually need a PIC or sophisticated analog or hybrid controller circuit with sensors to make it work best and most reliably as there would probably be very precise RPM ranges (pulse F's for best efficiency), and timing needed... But the basics would soon be apparent without all that, if it is indeed possible: That loading the alternator up to but below stall condition does not significantly increase the prime mover motor current; or at least it generates less torque drag-induced current rise than a conventional motor would see... So even if this present design is not efficient enough for "OU" by itself, there could be a "synergy" available to make it so.

I guess what would be needed to positively verify this possibility would be (... and verify "OU" in general for that matter):

> A torque measuring device (possibly a calibrated prony brake of some type that can read fairly minor changes accurately, even if read only by "eye"... perhaps along the lines of what we saw with the "Keppe Motor" tests from last year, that was a pretty clever design, i thought).

The most commonly-seen electronic means of recording this by a professional "Test Engineer", would probably be a "Bridge Amplifier" box that uses a Wheatstone Bridge-based pressure transducer (often generically called "load cells" in industry), with some mechanical connection to a rigidly fixed shaft brake that would allow accurate "Full Scale Calibration" to be first done (these Bridge Amplifier boxes have verniers for "Balance" and "Full Scale Cal" that produce a set voltage output range like "0 to 5V" on them)... then manually slowly and evenly brake the shaft while recording.

A cheaper home-built way to duplicate that electronic recording means could be to get ahold of a carbon "resistor strip" like used for positioning feed-back of X-Y moving devices (or even a big old-style potentiometer with visible moving wiper), and somehow build a circuit and mechanical linkage to use the resistance change vs. mechanical movement (with a sure means of Calibration). Hall Effect proximity sensors could also possibly by used; but they can be problematic for direct linear movement measurements, which is key here. The idea of these transducers being in any case, to get a permanent and reproducible record right along side the voltages that also proves "timing"; for Verification purposes.

> A digital storage oscilloscope to record the waveforms' Amplitude and Phase, including a current shunt; and/or a Wattmeter on the Mains input for accurate and reliable "Power In" figures. Besides "power in", you would want the motor coil signal and possibly others. A multi-channel PC-based Data Acquisition System may also be possible to use, but their Sample Rates and Frequency Response is almost always much lower than a DSO's. All these devices can also be Rented from "G.E. Quick Rents" (although they still cost a lot to rent with "minimum of 30 days"). Most local community colleges have DSO's floating around somewhere; and maybe even load cells.

One concern most here know already, but is still worth repeating lol... Always remember that most stand-alone scopes that plug into the wall are "Single Ended to Ground" (as are all "PC-based" scopes.. meaning they are NOT "Isolated"), so where you place the probe's ground lead is of prime importance.... if it is placed on a spot "off ground" (as coils or shunts often are), damage to the scope could easily occur. Test the point with a meter to ground first. Battery-powered "scopemeters" with the charger unplugged are inherently "isolated" from ground, but only as long as the OTHER channel is not attached to ground ("channel-to-channel isolation" schemes and specs vary between models).

> And as an "option", if it does indeed appear to be "CEMF resistant", you could throw in a separate conventional motor torque / current test to use as a "Control" to measure the "normal" amount of drag-induced current increases using the same prony-brake setup. I don't think the relative "size" or "rating" of the motor will matter too much there, it would be the ratio of unloaded to loaded current draw that would matter (and proof that the prony brake/transducer setup indeed worked the same). There are also formulas for calc'ing this with conventional motors (but they have a great deal of Variables), and empirical tests are often better for proofs and for popular illustration than simply stating formulas...they can cut through a lot of "bull"... as you will see, the naysayers often like to mire the subject in techno-nonsense wherever they are given the chance by not being clear enough.

I guess a quick and much simplified test for this "CEMF" issue as a start, would be to monitor the power in while dragging your motor shaft to its "stall" point; looking for current rise in the AC Mains input.

Whatever happens, imo it is a brilliant and novel project worthy of study

[Joit]

A transistor is Current controlled device and a mosfet is Voltage controlled device, that make a huge difference depending on the application you intend to use it. If you want to control the amp draw of a coil , with a transistor its really easy but with a mosfet you will need to make a chopper to do a equivalent circuit.

Best Regards,
EgmQC

I dont know, to what you refer to, but think about it, what happens to Voltage when it hits a resistance, it slows only down without amperage and you get an average Value of Voltage and mA,
and its actually the same as when you use 'current'.
Seems more like you mix there something up from school thinking about all this big differences.
At this buildings you get the Current for the Gate from a induced Coil where you have allready a sine wave for it, what controls the Gate.
Only thing is, that most Mosfets have a higher rsistance at the gate,
but it should not make much matter, when you have a big trigger Coil.
But for Solid state with a Timer they work the same way, when you control the Cycles at the Gate.

[juju]

hello

the 350V dc across the resistance draw are from a separated generator coil, or from the BACK EMF output?

why dont you measure the current across the load? that will take your doubts... you can have 350V but if the draw is 0,001mA.. you will only have 0,35W... not even half that what you are putting in... 0.96W!

my fuji camera circuit, kicks out 300V, with only one 1.2V battery!

you must show complete measuraments, i told you before...

anyway good work, its a very cool design!