Easy no BEMF motor with brushed motor

[Aaron]

Electric Motor Secrets

I am also very interested in replicating the rotary attraction motor. I think I have all the parts I need except for a nice motor. The only thing the motor is used for is the rotating shaft, it looks like. The two magnets are glued to the wheel on the outside of the motor and the motor runs by attracting these magnets to the relay.

Hi 7imix, if you're talking about the one in the vid... the magnets on the
wheel are only for triggering the reed switch. The actual motor itself
has been modified. You can see more details in the Electric Motor Secrets
thread.

[7imix]

Ok Aaron, that makes sense. Thank you. I will research it more. That's one long thread!

[Aaron]

Electric Motor Secrets

7imix,

Peter's video is the basis of that thread - very well worth the money:
Free Energy, Products, Books and DVDs

[sucahyo]

Sure, I'll do some experiments and see what I get.

Thank you . I look forward for the result.

I wonder if we modified the original circuit of rottary attraction motor it can get same result as stingo motor. Triggering method is different, but it has similarity isn't it?

Here is my stingo Bedini fan, rotate on either direction, using original coil, mechanical load reduce current consumption, shorting out the radiant output reduce fan speed but do not change power consumption, run fastest on middle input current setting (not at highest or lowest):

One of the problems I see with the stingo motor is that when loading it, it falls out of resonance. It would be nice if the resistance set by the potentiometers were somehow automatically set based on some feedback from the coil, somehow, so that the impulse frequency changed as the motor was loaded and the circuit stayed in resonance, delivering maximum power to the motor.

That is a nice idea. Designing the complementary circuit would be out of my head though lol.


BTW, someone mentioned that brushed motor efficiency can be above 85%. Plettenberg motor said to reach 90%. You show that we can get motor running at the same speed with 25% less power. If we run Plettenberg motor with stingo then:
90% x 125% = 112.5%. We can get COP>1 .

[sucahyo]

stingo brushless implementation

Edit: This is a comparison of Joule thief Bedini Fan circuit with a stingo implementation. Joule thief like is not standard Bedini Fan circuit.

YouTube - Bedini fan, Joule thief vs Stingo

The video show that:
Joule Thief Bedini Fan draw 120mA, slow and sensitive to potentiometer value.

Stingo Bedini Fan draw 40mA and run fast.

In this spesific implementation stingo circuit outperform joule thief version significantly. three times less current consumption, and I think two times faster fan.

Stingo Bedini Fan performance is similar to Standard Bedini Fan.

[sucahyo]

harddisk motor spinner

Here is video showing stingo spinning harddisk motor.
Youtube - Running harddisk motor with stingo

This should be applicable to all brushless.

[sucahyo]

I just run stepper motor with 5 terminal today. Only 3 terminal is used. where the choice of wire let it run on spesific direction.
YouTube - Stingo Bedini stepper

Here is link to type of stepper motor:
Jones on Stepping Motor Types

[sucahyo]

brushed motor can not be called no BEMF motor

Peter Lindemann give me warning that I misunderstood what BEMF is.

In video that Aaron posted:

In one of these, the current drops when attaching a light bulb
as a load. (the statement is wrong because bypass is actually a bigger load because bypass is output short out.)

YouTube - Peter Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor - First demo
YouTube - Peter Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor 2a
YouTube - Peter Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor 2b

We filmed those a few years ago.

Peter Lindemann mention that:
"No Back EMF performance = when you mechanically take the energy out of the motor, it does not draw more electricity."


I thought that any motor that behave like that is no BEMF motor. But it appear that I am wrong to assume that. So I study his video more. I found two very important difference:
1. Different experiment
Two part video show experiment of rotary attraction motor with three electrical load condition and two mechanical load condition. Electrical load condition:
- bypass, shorted out radiant recovery.
- light bulb, radiant recovery powering a ligth bulb
- battery, radiant recovery charging a battery

Mechanical load condition:
- without load
- drag with hand

What make this experiment different from my or 7imix experiment is Peter Lindemann experiment do not show result without electrical load. While my or 7imix experiment is done without electrical load. So unless there is result with rotary attraction motor without electrical load, we can not compare the experiment. So the experiment can not be used to deduct the same conclusion. However doing stingo motor experiment with load is useless because stingo motor do not consider shorted out output as load, as can be seen on later posted video.


2. Different driving circuit
The circuit that Peter Lindemann use is different from stingo. The behaviour is also very different. As seen in the result screen, bypass or shorted out output require the most current consumption. A behaviour similar to most of radiant circuit.

Stingo do not change consumption even with bypassed or shorted out output. My reading for the output voltage is close to zero.
YouTube - Stingo vs straight DC brushed motor consumption.

Since the driving circuit is different, same conclusion can not be used because the experiment is different.


My conclusion:
This quote bellow,
"No Back EMF performance = when you mechanically take the energy out of the motor, it does not draw more electricity."

taken from video that Aaron posted, should only considered true for motor driven by conventional radiant circuit that have current consumption increase with electrical load, AND should only be measured with proper load.


I think at the time Aaron made that video, there is no circuit that have current consumption reduce with load available, so I think Peter Lindemann assume that everyone would be using conventional circuit, a circuit that have current consumption increase with load.

A motor that show no BEMF behaviour should not be considered a no BEMF motor if it is driven with circuit that have current consumption reduce with electrical load. It is the circuit that allow that to happen, not the motor construction.