Garry Stanley Pulse Motor

[Matthew Jones]

Thanks for the explanation Matt.
So, what we have here is the induced voltage canceling out between the two coils which would prevent current from flowing. No current, no Lenz effect.
According to the diagram this motor appears to be an attraction motor. Did I miss the part about repulsion mode? This effect would make more sense for the magnet leaving the coil than approaching, wouldn't it?

Ted

Attraction or repulsion probably works the same way. Alot of the Lenz effect disappearing is coming simply from the fact that the motor pulses the same over and over. That will allow some of the generated BEMF to go to ground with the input current. Then this effect cancels out the rest, If I am thinking right. I haven't built one but thats how it sound to me. I am pretty sure you would need 2 coils to make that happen.

Cheers
Matt

[SkyWatcher]

Hi turion, my understanding is that they have to be air-core coils so that the rotor magnets fields can link and attract one another and that would mean magnet strength would determine coil thickness due to distance the fields can reach out. And with that setup, enable these other effects to occur.
peace love light
Tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, here is a pic of progress of pulse motor. I will install rotors next and test pulse angle width to determine magnet size and spacing for timing wheel and just to see what kind of pull this sucker has. Going to start with reed switch firing transistor. Though in the model i built before i used a hall effect device, which worked well.
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/62/stanleytype5.jpg
peace love light
Tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, installed the dual rotors and wired them up in the 3 coil pairs in parallel/series way and manually pulsed the motor. At 12v it takes off nicely, at 24v the rotor launches and at 36volts it rockets away sometimes causing the whole motor to fly up off the table. This motor seems to have much more torque than my old motor, probably because the magnets are closer together and/or because the coil geometry is more ring like. My old motor used 18 gauge wire at around .5 ohms per coil and these coils are 24 gauge around 2.5 ohms each and have much more punch. That makes final resistance around 3.75 ohms. Here is a pic of progress, still have to cut out timing wheel and hook up drive circuits.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3...anleytype6.jpg
peace love light
Tyson

[citfta]

Very nice build

That is a very nice build. I can't wait to see what kind of torque you will get from it. My son has been talking about building something like this for a while. I told him about your thread so he can see how it is done. By the way the U.S. Navy uses a motor very similar to this. It is called a pancake motor. They use it because of its high torque and high efficiency. Their coils are wired differently and of course have metallic cores following conventional thinking. I think your design or I guess I should say Garry's will be even more efficient than the Navy's. Great build.

Carroll

[garrys]

hi again

you guys seem to pretty much have it ...let me see if i can get this right ...if you wind a coil clockwise and then turn it over it appears counter clockwise .. if you power it you get a N at one end and a S at the other and you can drive a motor with this.

Cut this coil in half and power both center ends with Pos and both outters with Neg now you get like poles at both ends and repelling like poles in the center ...disconnct one end of the coil and turn it round and you come back to your original N and S poles to the outside and a S and N on the inside so it is all happy again.

the turned half forces the current which is still flowing from the outside inwards to spiral in the opposite direction in order to create the pole just as the magnet passing by this end casues the electrons to move in the opposite direction which is what casues the canceling effect.

Grasping this is a bit like trying to understand a rubiks cube

Avoid cores in these you will quickly learn that these motors dont need to be big to make usable power but mine did not even have the power to pull itself free of the pull of the cores when i tried cores in it and would not spin even if i gave it a helping hand, several other replicators have tried this with similar results, but that doesnt mean you shouldnt try it once you have a running motor i have learnt the hard way to trust no one and make sure i have tested it for myself.

Tyson im going to plead the 5th on the capacitive effect ..i suspect im using someone elses words there that dont accurately convey what i was trying to impart.
It may well be that someone else has summed something to be a capacitive effect in a previous post and that was the appropriate thing to call it there.

[garrys]

Using standard coils of any depth will work but the distance between your magnets will put them out of each others flux fields and thus you will never see the cumulative effect of the flat coils where the proximity of the magnets casues the flux field to move inward and then return the instant the coils flux field interferes with this setup ...this causes a flux field to move out away from the coils at the instant of power on resulting in a forward emf even if ever so briefly but nevertheless adding to input power.

Also your center magnet will interfer with this in a flat coils motor but then again it might increase it, so well worth trying ...i built another center plate for mine to try this but was unable to get more matching magnets to try it.

So from what I understand, I can have a setup that is:
Magnet/coil/magnet/coil/magnet and as long as I have them wired correctly, I can take advantage of this effect. I have two such setups currently, although not wired in the proper configuration.
In one setup the coils and the magnets are permanently placed and do NOT move, with a rotor between them that allows the coils to "see" the magnets through "windows" in the rotor.
In the other setup the coils are permanent and the magnets are on rotors. It is actually put together as:
magnet rotor/coil/magnet-magnet rotor/coil/magnet rotor.
There are two magnets on the center magnet rotor that are back to back because I wanted the weight and magnets back to back with the plastic disk in between to help hold each other in place.
So my question is, is there an advantage that I don't understand to using the flat coils in this setup or will using standard coils as I have described accomplish the same thing?

[garrys]

If i get time over the weekend ill dig the motor out and maybe take some pix of the curcuit on it so you can all see.

The circuit diagram i see at the start of this thread is wrong, you may need a diode there but in reality i just used a big reed switch with a resistor in line with it to run this i think ... would have to go have a better look at it again as i have used transistors on some projects for switching ...its been a while since i put it on the shelf.

Garry, are you saying the circuit diagram at the beginning is correct except for the diode? It would be helpful to know what the exact circuit should be.

[Turion]

Garry,
Thank you so much for your willingness to answer so many questions, some of which I know probably seem pretty stupid. Believe me, I appreciate it and I know everybody who is trying to replicate this motor also appreciates it.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi Garry, thanks for the information, will be interested to see your pics. Hi Carroll, thanks for the compliments, I have an old friend in the navy. Though as i figured, since it is such a small model, the threaded rod cross supports or bearing proximity are causing a slight cogging of the rotors, though not major. Unless a different design or cross support material was used, this design needs to be a tad bigger to prevent any cogging. Otherwise, i realized i had a cut timing wheel that fits from previous motors and will use that. Also i will have to use a longer shaft, i have a 24" length, 5/8" diameter laying around and with the longer shaft I can fit the timing wheel and any load, prony brake attachments on other end. Shouldn't be too long now before I can fire this thing up.
peace love light
Tyson

[Matthew Jones]

@SKY

I always use pipe tape on my all thread before inserting them into the bearings. You can wrap it tight and clean the outer edge's with razor or something. It fills the grooves and it holds up well. You can also wrap enough so the bearings need a slight pressure to slip over the taped point, ensuring you get no inside spin between the bearing and the shaft.

Normally 5/8 threaded rod on the outside of the thread is 1/32 shy of 5/8, but the bearings are cut at 5/8. Same with other sizes..

Cheers
Matt

[SkyWatcher]

H folks, Hi Matt, thanks for the idea for the shaft, it will probably help. I fired up the motor today using 36 volts and using a reed switch from the shack with an NTE392 NPN transistor. She runs good, still have to mount reed switch, I was holding with one hand and other holding shaft to sense shaft torque. It has a bit of torque, when unloaded it draws around 100 milliamps and when loaded with grasping hand drawing around 500 milliamps at around 1/2 the unloaded speed, it gets a little painful. So at 36volts, unloaded is 3.6 watts and loaded with hand, its around 18 watts. I placed a neon across collector and emitter to see any flyback and it does not light up until a certain speed and if using 24volts input it never lights up. At 36volts if i ramp it up to full speed unloaded and disconnect input power and let it coast, the neon stays lit until it drops to a certain speed then goes out. So I guess that means the coils are outputting enough voltage to turn on the neon, which is the green 120 volt version, at a certain rpm. Though it does not seem that flyback is causing it to light up. Let me hear your thoughts on this. Here is a pic of the motor with circuit, the old timing wheel i had is too big so I'll have to make another one.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8232/stanleytype7.jpg
peace love light
Tyson

[Turion]

SkyWatcher,

Really nice job with this build.
I am waiting on my magnets to get started with mine. I have been building a Watson device, and will be using THIS motor to drive it since it will probably do a better job than anything I could buy. A highly efficient pulse motor is exactly what is needed for that device, as well as a weighted shaft, and I think this build meets those requirements quite nicely.

As for the light that stayed on even after you shut off power to your motor, have you taken a look at Matt's Simple Motor schematic and video? I wonder what would happen if you used a spark gap and mechanical timing to trigger your coils and captured the energy as Matt does. I will be giving that a try as I try to use spark gaps and mechanical triggering whenever possible.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi Turion, thanks for the compliments. I'm not aware of 'Matt's Simple Motor schematic and video' is, could you post a link maybe, thanks. Can 3 pairs of coils wired in parallel and then these 3 parallel sets wired in series create that kind of voltage to light a neon rated at 120 volts, maybe. Also, with attraction mode, i cant use Bedini's flyback capture method because the diode conducts as the rotor magnets approaches the coils, though in repulsion mode it can be used. I am looking forward to your motor build, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how well this motor performs. what design are you planning, any details.
peace love light
Tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, a correction. Actually, the single diode flyback capture method conducts when rotor magnet is leaving the coil, so it would seem then that the collapsing field is bucking the induced field in the open circuit coil caused by the passing magnet. Though the neon lights without any input pulse, so I'll have to spin it up and remove input power to allow coasting and check the voltage to see how high it is.
peace love light
Tyson