Garry Stanley Pulse Motor

[gyula]

Hi Garry,

Though your description may sound ok but I am puzzled by the polarities here: + -8- -

Why the double negative at the second coil? Is not it like this: + -8+ - ?

Like you drew it earlier here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post105458

Thanks, Gyula

PS I sent you a personal message, see the upper right side corner for PMs on any page here on this forum to read it.

[woopy]

Hi Garry and all

thanks a lot to reopen this very interesting technology

if i understand you right, the coil set up could be like this ?

thanks

Laurent

[garrys]

Hi Garry,

Though your description may sound ok but I am puzzled by the polarities here: + -8- -

Why the double negative at the second coil? Is not it like this: + -8+ - ?

Like you drew it earlier here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post105458

Thanks, Gyula

PS I sent you a personal message, see the upper right side corner for PMs on any page here on this forum to read it.

the - by the 8 is to show the position of the input wiring so a + to show polarity then the wire - then the coil layout 8 then the second wire - then the polarity again - so all together + -8- - if this makes sense to you.

Here you are getting it direct from me as it really is, in the past i have used drawings done by others and sometimes looking back they are more representative of the other persons understanding of what i was saying rather than a good representation of what it actually is.

[garrys]

Hi Garry and all

thanks a lot to reopen this very interesting technology

if i understand you right, the coil set up could be like this ?

thanks

Laurent

Yes woopy this is one of the possible layouts where one coil though in the same physical orientation can be wired reversed and thus counter the generated bemf in the first ...its figuring out which pole has to pass which side in a series setup that takes the time unless of course you can simply turn one of the coils around on your motor.

the easiest way to do it is to take it as a standard motor like all the rest and once you have it running take one coil out and turn it around along with its wiring to retain the correct poles you will see a higher speed from it straight away with no more draw thus higher output for the same input.
Again i must stress this is not OU it is merely realigning the rules to work in your favour and it only appears to be OU because a standard motor is built to the constraints and rules that applied to the materials available 100 years ago and we simply can make them go faster now without falling apart.

Always be aware that magnets flying out at high speed are dangerous so be careful as you start ramping up the speeds with additional voltage.

Garry

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, thanks garry for your thoughts. Hi Matt, I made those tests and of course I pretty much knew what would happen, since i've built so many motors already and have seen there behavior.

Sky
Its not counter EMF, Thats good stuff, some kind of negative energy. I thought you said you didn't have scope so here's another test. Instead of using a bridge just use 1 diode off the collector of your transistor. Hook it back to the hot side of your run battery.
Does the motor slow down? Stay the same? or speed up? If it slows down take the diode and run it to secondary battery or that capacitor with a good load.
Does the motor speed up?

When routing the single diode from collector back to input battery positive, it slows the motor. When routing it to a secondary battery of same voltage 12volts, the motor is not affected in any way, except that a clicking noise i assume is coming from the coils is reduced. And when routing the single diode output to a lower voltage secondary battery of 2- 1.2volt nimh for 2.4volts, that slows the motor also, which shows that counter emf is still being generated in the motor. I built a small attraction motor before like from Peter L's thread and I could put any load I wanted off the flyback diode without the motor being affected, though since my gaps weren't very close the shaft power wasn't too great. Anyway, hope that helps. Not sure where to go from here, any suggestions welcome.
peace love light
Tyson

[Matthew Jones]

If you put an equal battery on it and it did not speed up. Try to adjust your base resistance of the position of your trigger.
It makes it hard to not be able to see it on the scope. And I am not sure what way your running your motor. If its attraction or repulsion. But with enough patience and you can hit that sweet spot.

I'll get my camera back tomorrow and show you this little motor I got. Not the same but everyone always says the same thing. Put a charge battery on it and it will slow down. But it doesn't. Because its timed right with a good base resistance. Everything stays cold and runs a good bit of amperage.

Adams told the truth. You just got to be able to see it.

Matt

[Ted Ewert]

Hi Tyson,
Try routing the diode to a 24 volt battery, even 36 volts, and take note of the input current.

Ted

[SkyWatcher]

Hi Matt, thanks for the information. I am pulsing the motor in attraction mode right now, though In the past I had built a motor similar to this one with air-cores that did accelerate with a certain load off the diode, can't remember if it was in attraction or repulsion. Hi ted, the motor did accelerate to a faster speed when i had a cap on it before when it had the 6 coils embedded in the stator plate and when the cap got to a higher voltage it's speed increased. I'll have to test it now and see.
I'll have to try in repulsion mode, because one would think that if tuned properly that we could route the diode back into the input positive leg and it should give an extra kick to accelerate the rotor. However, the diode would have to be switched out of the circuit since it would conduct as the magnets approach the coil. I could use another reed switch to trigger another transistor to switch the flyback diode in and out of the circuit just before and after the drive coils are de-energized to give the rotor an extra kick. Unless you guys have a simpler idea to avoid the diode conducting when we don't want it to and slowing the motor, of course due to counter emf generated within the motor. That is the reason the motor slows with the lower voltage 2.4 volt pack in the secondary charge position when using a 12 volt input. So if we could come up with a simple method to switch the flyback diode in and out at the right time, I think gotoluc's tests showed how valuable using the flyback into the same coil is at giving added field strength. Let me know what you folks think.
peace love light
Tyson

[gyula]

...
Here you are getting it direct from me as it really is, in the past i have used drawings done by others and sometimes looking back they are more representative of the other persons understanding of what i was saying rather than a good representation of what it actually is.

Hi Garry,

What I wrote to you in the personal message, it has nothing to do with the present topic on your pulse motor / coils... I would like to help and if possible, to learn, I am not interested in fame.

Thanks, Gyula

[Ted Ewert]

Hi Tyson,
Try not to put to much stock in the unloaded speed of your motor. This speed is only an indication of the balance between the input voltage and the counter EMF created by the rotor magnets.
A better indicator of efficiency is input current. This tells you how well you have things matched up.
The reason I suggest different voltage levels for your pulse load is that you can find the impedance of your coils that way. If you can match that impedance, your input current will be minimized with no reduction in performance.
Try it and see what you find.

Ted

[garrys]

Hi Ted, i understand what you are suggesting there about speed but it is not correct ...speed is horsepower since torque doesnt change in an electric motor the more speed you can get from it the more output you get.

My system is designed to reduce the induced emf that is countering the speed of the motor and thus get more for the same input level so speed is important.

Speed in a standard motor is equally important the faster you get it going the more output you have from it and it is not uncomon for people to be building in variable timing on motors these days to take advantage of the increased rpm they are now running at ...consider a car motor without variable timing it runs much less efficiently and this too is true for a pulse motor the faster its going the more advance you need on the timing and a shorter pulse length.

Garry

[Ted Ewert]

Hi Ted, i understand what you are suggesting there about speed but it is not correct ...speed is horsepower since torque doesnt change in an electric motor the more speed you can get from it the more output you get.

The only time torque remains constant in a motor is when there is no load, or a steady load. Otherwise torque has to increase or decrease with a changing load.
Unloaded speed has absolutely nothing to do with horsepower. Horsepower is an indication of the ability of a motor to do work. You can't know how much work a motor can do until you load it and measure it's output.
If a motor maintains it's speed under a load then torque must have increased. That torque has to come from somewhere, either more supply current or some other source of B field.
If the motor is unable to supply sufficient torque, the speed of the motor decreases according to the amount of loading. This curve is what needs to be measured.
An unloaded motor requires very little power to spin the rotor. The top speed is only an indication of the point where the back EMF created by the rotor is slightly less than the input voltage. The current consumption at that point indicates the amount of power required to overcome friction, windage and resistance in the windings. None of this is any indication of how powerful or efficient the motor really is.
There is only one number that I'm interested in when it comes to a motor, and that is it's efficiency percentage: How much power can I get out of the motor compared to how much I have to put in?

Cheers,

Ted

[woopy]

Hi Garry and all

here some results i did with what i have understood on the coil wiring.

I think i have have made almost all the config i think it is possible.

Every thing works , depending of the rotor and poles config.

It seems that there is always a generative trace on the scope.

But it also seems that the Lenz's law is smaller as in conventional set up. As when i brake the rotor ,almost to a stop, the current does not jump up as it would do in a conventional electric motor. ( i made comparison with a high end 12 volt motor on the same set up, it run at 80 ma at no load and jump to 1.5 amp with a slight braking )

I hope i have made no mistake, and i will continue to test.

good luck at all

Laurent

YouTube - Garrys motor 1 .wmv

[garrys]

The only time torque remains constant in a motor is when there is no load, or a steady load. Otherwise torque has to increase or decrease with a changing load.
Unloaded speed has absolutely nothing to do with horsepower. Horsepower is an indication of the ability of a motor to do work. You can't know how much work a motor can do until you load it and measure it's output.
If a motor maintains it's speed under a load then torque must have increased. That torque has to come from somewhere, either more supply current or some other source of B field.
If the motor is unable to supply sufficient torque, the speed of the motor decreases according to the amount of loading. This curve is what needs to be measured.
An unloaded motor requires very little power to spin the rotor. The top speed is only an indication of the point where the back EMF created by the rotor is slightly less than the input voltage. The current consumption at that point indicates the amount of power required to overcome friction, windage and resistance in the windings. None of this is any indication of how powerful or efficient the motor really is.
There is only one number that I'm interested in when it comes to a motor, and that is it's efficiency percentage: How much power can I get out of the motor compared to how much I have to put in?

Cheers,

Ted

Hi Ted ...you clearly understand the working of a motor in simple terms as i like to explain it and your idea here is correct so lets see if i can help you see it from the other side ....if you take a motor with 2 coils in series and run it your system for working out its performance is perfect what im doing is turning one of those coils to negate the bemf.... the coils havent changed the input hasnt changed the resistance hasnt changed but the motors ability to generate a back emf has changed and so it now goes faster if it goes faster then it must be making more output from the input, its just that simple ...but still your system measures it correctly however if you simply measure the imporved motor i suggest over the standard motor perscribes by convention then surely you will not see any positive results.
Windage friction etc all are still there playing their part and this surely isnt magic but it must by design be better than anything else that isnt built with these modicications and surely showed as such when tested in the real world on my bike.

A manufactired electric bike has a range of 20ks aprox and most run for an hour while mine was drawing 1 amp from a set of 7 amp hour batteries which in the real world means its going to run for 7 hours on a charge and be able to do around 140k per charge ...have you ever heard of any electric vehicle with anything like this type of return or range from a single charge let alone one thrown together with some bits and pieces found lying around in the back yard ?

Garry

[woopy]

surprising coil behaviour

Hi Garry and all.

I made a further test with my pulse motor.
the video is self explanatory.

So to say it seems that when i slide away one of the 2 coils in serie, the remaining coil compensate by using more current to maintain the RPM.

What is very surprising is that the current draw is almost the double to keep the same RPM.

I don't know if this is what Garry try to teach us ?

Anyway if somebody can explain this phenomenon i would be very happy.

Just for info i have already experiment this with my Ossie motor replication. and Captainpecan a contributor on another forum , sayd that it was due to BEMF. But i don't understand exactly how this occure.

Thank's

Laurent

YouTube - ‪pulse motor a la Garry Stanleyand the 2 coils problematic 1.wmv‬‎