F.M.Chalkalis gravity system a donation!

[Ted Ewert]

This mechanism relies on the combined energy of gravity and the pulse motor to generate velocity. Kinetic energy is a product of V squared times mass / 2. It's the velocity squared part which is the gain in this mechanism.
If you take that same pulse motor and put it 180 degrees on the other side of the arc, I'll bet it wouldn't work. This is because the pendulum has to gain speed in order to gain kinetic energy, and apparently this happens best on the downward stroke.
This could be problematic for energy generation. Since the pendulum has to be able to accelerate, putting a load on it for 360 degrees of rotation might prevent that from happening efficiently. Pulling energy out of the system may have to be done for only part of the cycle, perhaps right after peak velocity is attained.
This could be accomplished with some magnets on the pendulum and some generator coils mounted below. It could also transfer some of it's kinetic energy to a flywheel with a generator attached.
Anyway, it's interesting to think about.

[HairBear]

How would a counter rotating pendulum affect this device? Counter balanced for stability perhaps? And double the output too? I wonder if it's possible to scale this down to a bench top version? Is it possible to use weighted bicycle wheels? I'm having a hard time finding the space to build it exactly as he did. It's rather large! Maybe even a little scary...

[Matthew Jones]

.
If you take that same pulse motor and put it 180 degrees on the other side of the arc, I'll bet it wouldn't work. This is because the pendulum has to gain speed in order to gain kinetic energy, and apparently this happens best on the downward stroke.
This could be problematic for energy generation. Since the pendulum has to be able to accelerate, putting a load on it for 360 degrees of rotation might prevent that from happening efficiently. Pulling energy out of the system may have to be done for only part of the cycle, perhaps right after peak velocity is attained.....

Well there some things to factor in besides how much kinetic energy it produces. Mostly in how much it uses on the drive wheels. Since they are free wheeling 300 deg of rotation they do not draw that much amps, lowering the consumption. Their flywheel action adds to the power overall while lowering the initial amp draw once the pendulum hits the wheel.
My biggest problem is the gearing.
If the thing has the capability to get up to say 1000 rpm well then where talking about something. Still not to the levels he mentions as far as I can see but it would be something.
But that thing would have to go alot faster for it to matter, especially if the energy you wanted came from the center shaft of the pendulum.

But could it conceivably go faster? If the tires diameter was 2 ft, and the 60 degree bar was 2 ft, the best you could do was the same speed. So then we are just talking about gearing down at that point.

Questions ... Questions .... Questions ?!!!

Matt

[Mark]

You could just put a huge pulley on it and drive an alternator or 2 with a belt set up.

[Ted Ewert]

I don't think taking power off the main shaft is the way to go. If you did, you would have to draw power out only at selected time.
The pendulum has to be ably to accelerate or it won't work. It won't accelerate with a load on it, so the load has to be applied at another point in the cycle. The pendulum has to freewheel until the bottom of the stroke.
This principal can certainly be scaled down. The only problem with making a smaller replication is that the power is more difficult to extract efficiently. If anyone builds one I would recommend bolting the frame to a concrete floor. A heavy pendulum spinning like that generates huge loads on the frame, which requires heavy construction.
I like the motor / generator concept for propulsion and generation. It's simple and easy to move around and modify, and more efficient than a motor turning a set of wheels.
If the magnets are placed at the end of the pendulum, the velocity of the lever can be used to generate higher a voltage, and more power. The load on the generator coils can also be adjusted for maximum draw without slowing the pendulum down too much.
I wish I had some free time right now to build one.

Ted

[Mark]

I'm afraid I don't agree with you on this Ted. With all that weight spinning, a load on the shaft would be no different than a some friction. It would cause a decrease in total speed but, the question would be how much. IMHO a load connected in any fashion would be transfered to the shaft.

[Ted Ewert]

I'm afraid I don't agree with you on this Ted. With all that weight spinning, a load on the shaft would be no different than a some friction. It would cause a decrease in total speed but, the question would be how much. IMHO a load connected in any fashion would be transfered to the shaft.

In order to function properly, this device relies on the pendulum going through two periods in each revolution: one of acceleration and one of deceleration. It has to do both.
From the top of the arc, the pendulum begins to fall and accelerate. When it hits the motor, that rate of acceleration is increased. For the rest of the arc down to the bottom the pendulum is further accelerated by gravity.
At the bottom of the arc the pendulum has a certain velocity and a certain amount of kinetic energy. These two quantities are much higher due to the extra velocity imparted by the motor.
As velocity doubles, kinetic energy quadruples. The addition of a small amount of energy at the start of the down swing contributes to a large increase in the kinetic energy at the bottom of the arc.
It's like being on a swing. At the top of the arc we add some energy to the pendulum by leaning out and away from the axis point. This increases the velocity on the downward arc and propels us higher on the upward side.
Notice we don't add energy on the upward stroke, where it would do little good.
This mechanism works the same way. If we add a constant drag on the axle, it would restrict the acceleration phase of the cycle, rendering the mechanism dysfunctional. The pendulum HAS to be free to accelerate or it won't work.

[ewizard]

I'm still having a hard time seeing where any excess energy might be coming from although I may have come across a possible explanation in a long read yesterday. From known physics though I see a weight that goes up and goes down the same amount so the energy output from that would seem null. The only energy input is the motor.

However the one possible explanation I am seeing might come from Von Braun’s 50-Year-Old Secret I read yesterday regarding an anomaly with gravity for spinning objects. This anomaly was discovered during the first satellite launches but suppressed to this day. According to the web site I read it would completely change the Newtonian laws as well some of Einstein's. Bruce DePalma also found and verified this phenomenon.

[Mark]

I understand all that Ted. I'm not talking about a load so large that the pendulum wouldn't be able to turn. Take a small generator and attach a long pendulum say 8 ft and put a 30 lb weight to it. Give it a good swing and it may go around a 3 times. Now add the wheeled motor to it to keep it spinning. The question is if there is enough output from the generator to keep the motor running.

[Ted Ewert]

Here is an interesting document that is applicable to this device:

http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Docs/J..._Overunity.pdf

I don't pretend to fully understand the math, but he attempts to explain the kinetic energy involved in these types of mechanisms.

Ted

[john_g]

Ted

Thanks for the link above - a good read. What is intresting for me is that he talks about a body moving at 5 m/s then with another force contributing an extra 5 m/s, then the product of last two velocities would be 25 (m/s)2 - at least that's my take on it. May have to rethink gravity wheel designs - and get one working.

The link in the doc Richard C. Hoagland, Von Braun’s 50-year-old Secret
http://www.enterprisemission.com/Von_Braun.htm seems to bearout this extra energy effect.

Regards

John

[Ted Ewert]

Ted

Thanks for the link above - a good read. What is intresting for me is that he talks about a body moving at 5 m/s then with another force contributing an extra 5 m/s, then the product of last two velocities would be 25 (m/s)2 - at least that's my take on it. May have to rethink gravity wheel designs - and get one working.

The link in the doc Richard C. Hoagland, Von Braun’s 50-year-old Secret
http://www.enterprisemission.com/Von_Braun.htm seems to bearout this extra energy effect.

Regards

John

Hi John,
It's a very interesting paper, but a bit confusing at the same time. My math skills suck, so I couldn't accurately follow that part of the discussion, which is unfortunate since the rest of his proof is based in it.
Nevertheless, he attempts to explain the same principal which makes this device operate. He mentions multiplying kinetic energy, which I think is exactly what is happening. His mention of the experiment of Willem Gravesande where he dropped the brass balls into soft clay at different velocities and found that when velocity doubles, kinetic energy quadruples, is key. This is the heart of the matter in my opinion.
Milkovic has been saying for years that it takes far less energy to keep his pendulum moving than the work performed by his oscillator. I can also attest to that since I built a few of his machines myself.
Bedini's "Watson" machine also uses this principal, only it's closer to Lee Tseung's lead out principal. If you notice how he recommends the commutator to be constructed, you will see that the motor gets pulsed, then the energy from the generator gets harvested. He also has a large flywheel which gets accelerated by the motor, then decelerated by the drag of the generator. This action is the same as Chalkalis's device, only it's using a flywheel.
The proportion of added velocities you mentioned above also caught my attention. This makes some sense if you think about it. Adding a relatively small amount of additional velocity to a moving mass doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the total energy of the system. But if you think about instances where velocity is doubled, such as with Milkovic's pendulum, or even pushing someone in a swing, you can start to see this effect.
This would also explain why this principal is not observed in common flywheel applications. The tiny fluctuations in velocity associated with most flywheels would yield little or no extra kinetic energy. Also, having a continuous load on a flywheel would damp any meaningful acceleration and consequently negate this effect.
This all means that the size of the pulse and the mass of the pendulum have to be taken in to careful consideration in order to maximize the effect. I think this is why Chalkalis uses two heavy wheels to drive his pendulum. The amount of stored energy in the wheels helps to impart enough energy in a short time to significantly accelerate the pendulum.
I think this principal is a gem for the free energy community and is quite worthy of further study and replication.

Ted

[Joit]

I think this principal is a gem for the free energy community and is quite worthy of further study and replication.

It is indeed for me also, i think since a while about it,
how you can connect a Flywheel proper to a device.
Thinking from the Base, figure, you have a very huge Stone,
what only get a push at a certain Point, when it turns in a circle.
When you place some generating Parts on it, where you can get Energy from it at a certain Point of the turn,
then the Inertia of the Mass should be bigger then the Point,
when it passes the generator device, as the Energy to keep it turning.
But at all, you would need bigger Coils for Generating as for powering the Device,
because you probatly cant create more Energy in smaller Coils, as what you use to power the Device.
But right now, anyhow a Flywheel is for me the only save way to go,
i think at an other Side, that you can compensate with the Inertia of Mass
the Power what you use or create, even, when now some Physicgenius get wet Eyes.
But then not just a 'little bit Flywheel' but really something what you can call Flywheel, because the relation from Mass to Energy is more in a bigger Scale.

Something else, what maybe dont really match here is the Problem,
when you use generatorCoil and Power coil to close together,
that you maybe only create the same Voltage in the Generator coil as at the Powercoil,
because theyr Magnetic field will influence eachother, and it will be impossible
to get more Voltage at generating out, as you speed up the Magnetic Field from the Power Coil.
Flynn was maybe right, as he said, you need to keep this both Fields apart.

And at this Place Thank you Mr Chakalis from me to, to sharing your Ideas,
and hopefully, it turns out to something good.

I am still not sure, if there will be rebuilder, even when it in 1:10,
Small Motors you can get from Accudrills what you can find now at the Junk.
They have a bit power at 12V or more, maybe enough, to keep some smaller Wheels running.

[dave_cahoon]

Someone here with disposable income may want to send one of these and many pulleys to this man asap. He can find the pulley combo that gives his house voltage and then self run with a dpdt switch...

THIS GUY Needs one of these:
10,000 Watts Max/7200 Watts Rated Belt-Driven Generator Head

Dave

[Cloxxki]

I'm all for tricking mother nature some way to get a gravity wheel to "work".
There have been other designs and claims where I really believed hey might work, only to be disappointed (obviously)
This one, I just don't get.

Would someone please throw in an attempt to explain in simple terms the principle which is supposed to offer a gain here?

Thanks!