F.M.Chalkalis gravity system a donation!

[Cloxxki]

[EDIT : former content removed by Cloxxki, seems irrelevant.]
Need to think about the angled weights better.
I have an itch on my decades old 3rd derivative scar. Would this be what I could almost taste so long ago...?

[Ted Ewert]

If this device works as is claimed, and I have no reason to doubt it, it means that there are principals involved not accounted for in classic mechanical dynamics.
As the examples sited above attest to, this phenomenon is not without president. There is enough prior evidence to lend credence to Mr Chalkalis's claims of over unity.
Building and testing a device is the only logical way to lay rest to this issue. Perhaps a successful replication or two will force the physics community to reevaluate some of the rules governing mass in motion.

[Joit]

Hi,

Then, none of our so called classical mechanics would make sense any more ...

Elias

Pull instead Push, the Laws for the Push Systems will still have her validity, just we did not learn to think in an other Way, because Science dont allow you to, but there is another Side, what works even too, only that noone did care about, maybe, because they are to lazy or just not able to think different then the Mass.

[Cloxxki]

A short note, something I realized yesterday.

If the drive wheels engage 1/6 of a rotation, near the top, they are effectively driving the main pendulum for MORE than 1/6 of the time, as it goes through there slower than the minimum, let along average speed in the lower ~200 degrees of the rotation.
Duration of the torque applied might be more relevant in calculations than the logicall used 1/6 duty cycle. At higher rpm the difference probably 1/6 diminishes.

Would anyone have reason to think that rather than 2 weights spaced 60º, one double weight placed halfway at equal radius from the axle, would behave much different?

Interesting brain teaser is how one would replace the 2 weights by a central single one. The double mass is a no-brainer, it's location less so. If the single weight would be centered 180º across, it would have more torque than the other 2 combined (0.5*√3 ~0.866 of the bi-weight radius remains)

[Ted Ewert]

A short note, something I realized yesterday.

If the drive wheels engage 1/6 of a rotation, near the top, they are effectively driving the main pendulum for MORE than 1/6 of the time, as it goes through there slower than the minimum, let along average speed in the lower ~200 degrees of the rotation.
Duration of the torque applied might be more relevant in calculations than the logicall used 1/6 duty cycle. At higher rpm the difference probably 1/6 diminishes.

Would anyone have reason to think that rather than 2 weights spaced 60º, one double weight placed halfway at equal radius from the axle, would behave much different?

Interesting brain teaser is how one would replace the 2 weights by a central single one. The double mass is a no-brainer, it's location less so. If the single weight would be centered 180º across, it would have more torque than the other 2 combined (0.5*√3 ~0.866 of the bi-weight radius remains)

One weight might work, but Chalkalis says two weights work better spaced at that angle so I would go with what has been tested. Why reinvent what has already been figured out?
I don't know that anyone really understands why this mechanism works the way it does, so trying new configurations is pretty much shooting in the dark.
With something like this I would try and replicate the original as closely as possible and get it working first, then I'd try different configurations.
I keep thinking about the slingshot effect that NASA uses to propel their spacecraft to the outer reaches or our solar system. Unless that technique was over unity it just wouldn't work.
A pendulum which is dropped from a certain height never quite reaches the same height on the other side of the fulcrum. Gravity normally doesn't give back more than it takes. Yet a spacecraft enters the gravitational field of a planet, descends toward the planet surface in an arc, and then exits the gravitational field with a higher velocity than it entered with! What is the difference between the pendulum and the spacecraft? The spacecraft had prior velocity and the pendulum didn't.
This tells us that a mass with velocity in a rotational system can be pulsed with X amount of energy and it will develop (initial KE) + X + (more KE).
The optimal configuration to fully exploit this phenomenon is still to be determined. Nevertheless, it appears to be a legitimate source of free mechanical energy which should be explored further. I'm certainly going to start building a replica once I get my motor working a little better. I have some ideas on an efficient propulsion mechanism that I want to try anyway.

Ted

[Matthew Jones]

Yet a spacecraft enters the gravitational field of a planet, descends toward the planet surface in an arc, and then exits the gravitational field with a higher velocity than it entered with! What is the difference between the pendulum and the spacecraft? The spacecraft had prior velocity and the pendulum didn't.

The Space craft can escape the gravity just in time to use the extra power. The pendulum can't.

But I see what your trying to point out.
Gravity is a constant so even if you use it to accelerate if your in it negates itself at some point. But it goes back to what you were saying earlier, maybe you tap the power while gravity is accelerating it, allowing it enough energy to return to the top.

Matt

[citfta]

Slingshot effect.

Hi guys, I may be out in left field here because I have never studied space craft flight that closely, but I think the sling shot effect is only helpful because of the orbit of the planet around the sun. In other words the velocity of the planet moving around the sun helps to increase the actual velocity of the space craft as it sling shots around the planet. If the planet were a stationary object then I don't think we would see much effect from the sling shot around it. Of course there are no truly stationary objects anywhere are there.

I sure hope one of you gets the time to build one of these soon as I would love to see the results from someone else. I wish I had the time to try it but I am still rebuilding a house and helping watch two granddaughters and still working on the tesla switch too when I have a few free minutes.

Carroll

[Cloxxki]

The motor driving the wheels seems to be required to offer great revving. Being, the triangle during the 60º pass, accelerates quite a bit. From gravity, the acceleration of the angle with gravity, and the position of the weights relative to the fulcrum and the driving wheels.
It's be impressed for the motor to speed up that much, even with the wheel freewheeling.
My best guess right now is that the motor would have SOME positive torque upon entry of the rim (it had 300º time to rev up while the triangle itself lost some speed), yet friction would force it to brake to match the rim speed. The mentioned speed regulator will need to be quite advance. Anyway, my guess is that the weights are feeding the motor upon entry and possibly exit.

I wonder how the shaft power is calculated. Is KE put in by the motor to get up to 160rpm taken into account?

A messy sketch I made showed that a lot is happening with stuff like 3rd derivative of vertical speed, angle (and its acceleration) with gravity, etc. It would be quite a presentation to make it all come to COP1:00 in a frictionless model, offering speed and input for every 1º increment as well as short time units (not the same, due to speed variance through a rotation).

I wish I had building skills for a thing like this, or opportunity to lend a local builder a hand. It tickles all my ancients hunches for a possible gravity (assisted) wheel.

[Ted Ewert]

Hi guys, I may be out in left field here because I have never studied space craft flight that closely, but I think the sling shot effect is only helpful because of the orbit of the planet around the sun. In other words the velocity of the planet moving around the sun helps to increase the actual velocity of the space craft as it sling shots around the planet. If the planet were a stationary object then I don't think we would see much effect from the sling shot around it. Of course there are no truly stationary objects anywhere are there.

I sure hope one of you gets the time to build one of these soon as I would love to see the results from someone else. I wish I had the time to try it but I am still rebuilding a house and helping watch two granddaughters and still working on the tesla switch too when I have a few free minutes.

Carroll

You're right about the speed being enhanced by the velocity of the planets, and this does diminish it's relevance somewhat. Nevertheless, I still feel some of the answer is there.
The slingshot effect uses leverage to propel a small object to a higher velocity. The Chalkalis device uses a similar principal.
If I throw a baseball as hard as I can, I may get a velocity of 50 MPH. If I extend my arm with a lever I might get 60-70 MPH. That's a large increase in kinetic energy for the same amount of input energy.
If you look at the Chalkalis pendulum, he has big weights half way up the shafts and then another smaller weight at the end of the shaft. This arrangement will accelerate that outer weight much faster in a free fall than if no large weights were attached.
The leverage involved here is very interesting and no doubt part of the equation. He uses leverage to accelerate the large weights, which in turn further accelerate the smaller weight due to leverage in the other direction. Kinetic energy is indeed multiplied in the outer weight with this configuration since a small increase in the velocity of the large weights causes a much larger increase in velocity in the outer weight.
Maybe this is where a lot of the gain is coming from.

Ted

[Cloxxki]

Ted, I think your pitch arm is plenty strong, just too slow to reach 50mph, even with an empty hand.
A long lever allows a too-slow arm to be used to accelerate the ball to a higher KE. The slow muscle takes, say 3x as long to make the swing, with greater resistance (load/torque). It's hard to put energy in a ball that escapes your hand in a blink of the eye.

I fear that Mr. Chalkalis in his enthusiasm has made calculation errors, but hope soon these will be proven in fact to be correct. If the priciple works, a self-powered car or house will be a relative walk in the park to realize. Once understood, I should be able to employ some 3D design man-power to come to an optimized design pretty short notice.
If a Dutch builder is going to replicate, I'll be happy to come offer my assistance, or just sweep the workshop floor.

[citfta]

Sling shots and baseballs

@ Ted, I agree with your analysis of how a sling shot works and I think you may be right on with you ideas of how this device works. Your mechanical skills continue to impress me. I hope you are planning to build one soon. I know you are still working on your motor design, but maybe you could forget about sleep for a few days and build one of these too. That might not be a good idea after all. My son-in-law just last a couple of fingers to a table saw so maybe you better wait until you are rested up to build it.

@cloxxi, I don't know about Ted's arm, but professional baseball players regularly pitch balls that are clocked at 85-95 MPH.

Cheers, Carroll

[Cloxxki]

o a table saw so maybe you better wait until you are rested up to build it.

@cloxxi, I don't know about Ted's arm, but professional baseball players regularly pitch balls that are clocked at 85-95 MPH.

And a handbiker can reach some 20mph (lots of Joules) with just one arm. Just not in one half crank revolution, I suppose :-)

Before saw tables are being involved, a simulation in Phun might help out. I have never tried such a think, but it seems to offer realistic 2D sims.

[Ted Ewert]

@ Ted, I agree with your analysis of how a sling shot works and I think you may be right on with you ideas of how this device works. Your mechanical skills continue to impress me. I hope you are planning to build one soon. I know you are still working on your motor design, but maybe you could forget about sleep for a few days and build one of these too. That might not be a good idea after all. My son-in-law just last a couple of fingers to a table saw so maybe you better wait until you are rested up to build it.

Cheers, Carroll

I may just do that. I find you can only theorize so much before you just have to build the damn thing and see what's really going on. I'm just finishing the umteenth rebuild of the motor and I'm starting to get a little burned out on magnets and coils. I have a friend who may be interested in building it too so I'll check with him. He's a good builder and likes the mechanical stuff.
Did you see this?

[sterlingda]

Feature page created at PESWiki

I may just do that. I find you can only theorize so much before you just have to build the damn thing and see what's really going on. [...]
Did you see this?

I enjoyed skimming through the comments here, especially those by you, Ted.

I've created a feature page here: OS: F. M. Chalkalis Gravity Wheel - PESWiki

Here's an excerpt from my intro comment:

He claims that the mechanism multiplies kinetic energy by around ten-fold. However, EnergeticForum member, Ted Ewert points out that this is based on an assumption of a balanced wheel, not of an unbalanced, pendulum-like wheel, which is the case here. Ewert has shown tremendous interest and insight for this project. My guess is that the math done properly (not simple) for this system is likely to show a negative net gain due to friction, which will be born out by accurate measurement and replication attempts. If it so happens that I'm wrong, and this is a true free energy design, then my guess is that it because it uses some of the same principles of secondary oscillation gain described by Milkovic. I would also guess that this device would work optimally at lower speeds, because of centripetal forces that take over at higher speeds; not to mention the mechanical stress that an unbalanced system like this would impose, which also presents physical dangers and noise problems.

Thanks for the plug on today's feature story about Phemax

[Matos de Matos]

Load on shaft

With an electric generator on the shaft we can measure the output load versus input power at the impulse motors.
On the video, we can see that Mr. Chalkalis has already a wheel on the shaft.
Then, just feed the motors with the power generated.