F.M.Chalkalis gravity system a donation!

[Matos de Matos]

The first instance I saw the diagram for Chalkalis' device I mistook it for Thornson's Internal Engine. Than I realized that it might actually benefit from this design change.

I tried to make a diagram of what the idea looks like, but it's pretty bad. (posting it anyway)

Take the left-hand side of this, rotate it 180 & 135 degrees clockwise (to achieve largest falling radius & smallest rising radius, but I have no idea what angle would be best) and that's pretty much what my drawing was supposed to be.

Dingus:
One setup similar to Thornson´s device is the proposal of the Double pendulum Hammer.
I have a thread open:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...um-hammer.html
The pendulum takes advantage of the second pendulum to thrust it up and probably we will have some free energy from the hammer hit or from some shaking magnets battery charger installed in the triangle frame.
We need to use some kind of latch and locks controlled by infrared switch.
It is one idea that may work.
It belongs to the world, your opinion is important.
David

[Cloxxki]

Hi Cloxxki!

It might not work for so many reasons, but I don't know how you see the radius increased? maybe my diagram is not clear enough. It is only a bar or a disc, with free arms which are able to rotate around the contact points to the bar. As the bar gains speed, the arms are straight out because of CF. and that is the total radius the system operates on (radius of the bar or disc+arm length). I have named it the centrifugal assister, because if it works, it only shows up under load.

Even if the radius of the system increases, we may lose some speed, but if we decrease the radius again the system will speed up again. It is because of the conservation of angular momentum. I have verified this fact personally.
So there is no problem with increasing the radius or decreasing it, if it affects the RPM.

I have started a new thread for this and we can continue our discussion over there.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ead.php?t=6052

Elias

Hi Elias,
I think you're exploiting the ice dancer's pirouette effect, it's amazingly beautiful :-)
The center of mass of your outer parts define "radius" as I meant it.
You have a wonderful radial inertia gearbox there. Might have great commercial applications, if not in fact already used as such. OU however, I no longer expect to find there.
CF is a destructively strong force, but it can't perform any kind of work (distance) without an equal cost. Oh, how I wish to be proven wrong about this...

[Matos de Matos]

Like in the Milkovic oscillator, any gain would have to be realized indirectly.

Ted:

I had the same opinion but after seen the video send by Rickoff about the “swinging Gym”, I changed my opinion.
We may be able to tap some free energy directly on the shaft mimicking the pumping of a child in a swing.
The trajectory of the pendulum looks like of the NASA problem with thrust with orbiting.
I open a thread with the idea:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ted-wheel.html
David

[elias]

Hi Elias,
I think you're exploiting the ice dancer's pirouette effect, it's amazingly beautiful :-)
The center of mass of your outer parts define "radius" as I meant it.
You have a wonderful radial inertia gearbox there. Might have great commercial applications, if not in fact already used as such. OU however, I no longer expect to find there.
CF is a destructively strong force, but it can't perform any kind of work (distance) without an equal cost. Oh, how I wish to be proven wrong about this...

It is not meant to decrease or increase the radius, the outer arms act as a pull to the main bar with CF, to keep it rotating at the desired speed. It is designed such that it resists decrease of speed.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, really nice ideas. There is one thing that I think is most important with the Chalkalis' device which this thread is about and that is the leverage aspect. He is inputting his force with a mechanical advantage and very large abrupt kicks, like a capacitor dump almost. That is where part of a gain is likely to originate. Folks, if your all using scientific methods here, then I would recommend to examine all the factors in this device. I firmly believe his device works exactly as claimed and let's examine it from the angle it does work, which seems a more productive avenue to the truth.
peace love light
Tyson

[Cloxxki]

Hi folks, really nice ideas. There is one thing that I think is most important with the Chalkalis' device which this thread is about and that is the leverage aspect. He is inputting his force with a mechanical advantage and very large abrupt kicks, like a capacitor dump almost. That is where part of a gain is likely to originate. Folks, if your all using scientific methods here, then I would recommend to examine all the factors in this device. I firmly believe his device works exactly as claimed and let's examine it from the angle it does work, which seems a more productive avenue to the truth.
peace love light
Tyson

I hope your beliefs will be proven correct. However, I fear that if a man like Chalkalis, with obviously excellent builder skills cannot loop the system, the gain is only present in an incorrect calculations.
I agree though, that if he is on to something with this invention, it will liekly be all in the angles he says work best. This would offer tremendous insight to the level of Bessler's mystery achievements.

[Ted Ewert]

The only way I see to efficiently extract energy from this device is indirectly. By indirectly I mean at 90 degrees to the circumference of the arc; along the radius.
Harvey made a good point in another thread. He mentioned the work done by the tides. The orbit of the moon around the Earth is not effected, yet a tremendous amount of work is constantly done moving water along the axis of the radius.
Milkovic does the same thing with his device. He has proved that more work can be extracted using this method than is used to keep the velocity of the pendulum constant.
There is obviously a practical limit to how much energy can be taken out of the system before it starts to slow down. Nevertheless, this is the only way I can see to realize a net gain from this device.
If designed properly, I think this device could be a legitimate generator.

[W32]

Thursday, July 15, 2010

Hello to all friends in the blogs and forums,

I will try to clarify on some questions and give some advices. On this innovation I have dedicated a big part of my life and in my writings I emphasize that I do not have the means to perfect it. I have declared that I am ready to help where I can and to share my experiences.
Some are saying that I should have first make it perfect and then to donate it. I am sorry I could not do it.
Some others comment on my math, they reject the innovation and discourage people from to deal with it. I'm afraid that pretty soon they might even doubt the physical phenomena exploited.

I did not ask anyone for money. I shared my innovation and I am hopping, with your help, to make a better tomorrow.


After finding that right after a few turns, the force required to complete the rotation is less and as speed increases it gets even lower and also that during the fall between 0 and 180 degrees, in my opinion, there is a surplus of energy,

I have tried for many years to use electromagnetism and many other ways in order to complete the rotation. Until I ended up with the simple way I presented you.

The amount of power we referred to is calculated based on the torque and speed and is clearly more than the input power the system needs. About the “How” and the “How much” of this energy we can harvest, I have my opinion that you may read below and I hope that together we may find a better solution.



Answers to your questions & how I would go on


1) I respect your suggestions however I would ask you at this stage to stay with the provisions of the plans. Many commented on the size of the structure but a miniature requires very specialized materials.


2) If your space allows it I would advise you to lengthen the distance of the center of weight from the axis with 10 more cm and the remaining blade (lever) with 15 cm. Certainly maintain the size of the weight. In the experiments I've done the greater the torque, the better it works.


3) The drive wheels are at 42 degrees. The total weight of the driving wheels is 15 kg (2 x 7, 5 kg) corresponding to three times the weight (force) needed in order to complete a rotation when it starts with no speed.


4) The driving system would require two enhanced soft wheels that do not swell (not changing their diameter) at high speeds. The size of the wheel determines the rate of transmission speed and power consumption. Eg the bigger the wheel the higher the rate of transmission speed. With a smaller wheel we have much less power consumption but lower rates of transmission speed. That is why it would be preferable to use a high speed motor with RPM controller.

Example from the existing prototype

Total arm length of 1,12m Χ 2 = 2,24m Χ 3,14= 7,0336 m perimeter.

Diameter of the driving wheel 0.3 m X 3,14 = 0.9420 m.

7,0336 / 0.9420 = 7.4666 times. This means that when our driving wheels run at 3000 rpm, we have on the main shaft 401 rpm, minus about 8% loss. This shows us that all three rotating objects are running with the same speed. While the energy consumption of the drive system is really small compared to what the rotating 278Nm have.


5) ) Power can be exploited only from the main shaft. It is the most efficient point, because all the forces in such high speeds are consolidated. For example when our rotating weight is located at either 180° or at 320° degrees it has the same amount of power. Besides if we try to get energy from the outer perimeter we will neutralize the properties of the lever.

6) Two motors of 1 or 1,5 Kw each if possible at 10.000 rpm , with speed control.

7) To place the whole system underground.

8) To get at the desirable amount of rpm and to connect the appropriate mechanism on our main shaft.

9) Another thought I had but I could not accomplish (experiment with) is that after we have placed it underground to run it with over 1000 rpm and with a gearbox to downgrade it at 200 rpm and then I would connect a generator such as those used in hydro systems.


A thank you too all people from the Forums & Blogs that look with interest in it.

F.M.Chalkalis

[sebosfato]

You are too much optimist. Common, it will never work. Theres too much losses, bearings, the driver circuit (the tires attrition, vibration)... The pulleys attrition... The driver motor efficiency...

Ok After all this... There is only one good point that is it can accumulate energy, for example you have solar panels and is not using the all energy that it is supplying, you can accumulate in that device using later or for having a more stable power source. However it would work yet 10times better if was balanced correctly. He said he have around 6000 watts accumulated there and is inputing 500 so we can also calculate the efficiency of this battery...
1° if it have 6000 and is inputing 500 he have a Q factor of the system of 12. Witch mean he can cumulate 12x the energy that he is inputing there.

Now look at the graphic.

As we know that his Q factor is around 12 this tells us that his efficiency is only close to 90%

I repeat It don't generate energy it wastes a bit but accumulate.

Having 90% of efficiency mean:

When he input 1 energy in one cycle, in the beginning of the second cycle he have 90% of the first energy...


Good luck

I'm trying to open your eyes!

[sebosfato]

Hello Mr. F.M.Chalkalis,

I wrote that post with the info and knowledge i discovered on my own during the research i did about resonance and energy multiplication...

However now that you are here you may have more information about the principle of functioning. Could you please en light us... Could you please tell us where the idea came from too?

Thanks a lot and sorry to have become a bit realistic regarding mechanics systems.

Best Regards

[n84dafun]

Hello Mr Chalkalis,

Thank you for joining this forum and offering to help us understand your device. I understand that the best place to extract the energy is at the axis as you stated, but I wasn't sure if we should extract the energy continuously or should we extract it at only a certain portion of the rotation? For example, assuming the 0 degrees is at 12 O'clock, should we extract energy from 90 degrees to 180 degrees? Or, from 180 deg to 270 deg? Where in the rotation is the best range in degrees to extract energy?

-Brian

[n84dafun]

I read the post again, and it looks like we can extract energy continuously on the shaft. He mentions rotation speeds of 1000 rpm and gear speed reduction to 200 rpm for a generator. Wow! a mass of this magnitude spinning at 1000 rpm surely would need to go underground. Imagine what would happen if the arms or bearings gave out at this speed. You would have a cannon ball that could penetrate several houses in the neighborhood. Sorry, don't mean to scare everyone. Just being safe.

-brian

[W32]

Hello world,
Please accept my apologies but I am not Mr. Chalkalis.
Sorry to disappoint you but I just posted the letter from his blog.
W32

[Ted Ewert]

Open letter to Mr Chalkalis...
Our discussion here has revealed a few serious problems which call into question your claims.
1. The most glaring is the most obvious: If your device actually gained energy, why is it not self rotating? Where does all that extra energy go when the power is removed? There can't be that much bearing friction and wind resistance to overcome.
2. You suggest that the power be taken off the main shaft. Why haven't you simply attached a cheap alternator to the shaft and measured it's output? You have a pulley right on the shaft! Use a 24 volt model and you could run your drive motor and measure how much extra you have left over.
3. Your math proves nothing. Do you know the difference between torque and horsepower? You calculate torque based on a no load situation, then compare it to input power. Apples and oranges my friend.
If you can't manage a generator, it's very simple to construct a Prony break which will give you a fairly accurate measurement of your actual power out.

After working on this concept for 28 years, it's hard to believe you built that whole device and didn't take some simple output power measurements. I see a pulley right on your main shaft for Pete's sake! Why are you withholding this information?
You immediately start whining about people pointing out legitimate errors in your statements, and asking perfectly reasonable questions (red flag). Yet, without answering anything you still want us to go to all the expense and trouble of building a replica just based on your opinion? I don't think so.
None of this adds up Chalkalis, and you know it. We are more than willing to extend the benefit of the doubt, and I think we have here, but we don't appreciate being played for fools.
What is your real reason for doing all of this?

Ted Ewert

[Matos de Matos]

As we know that his Q factor is around 12 this tells us that his efficiency is only close to 90%

!

Hi Sebosfato:

Thank you for sharing the efficiency graph of your experience with resonators.
Efficient e very advanced electrical power backup flywheels are in the market and I am not aware that they have to be installed underground.
It must be elaborated to synchronize the drive of a 600Kg, 30.000 RPM flywheel.
Very efficient gear boxes, and i am wonder what is the Quality Factor of it.

Can you take a look at the thread http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ted-wheel.htmlMagnetic pump Gravity assisted wheel and give your opinion on the principle and on the damping that will occur when the sliding magnet reaches the repulsion magnetic field?
If I angle 45º the magnetic field of the sliding magnet will improve the Q factor?
Your experience will be absorbed avidly.
Thank you
David