Ceramic Metal Treatment Technology Now Available

[jaggedE]

Hi jaggedE,

I'm glad to see you are already seeing some improvements to your Opel, but I don't understand why you think it might be necessary to try and fool the oxygen sensor. The cerma treatment only helps the engine to run more efficiently by raising the compression and lowering the friction of the internal parts of the engine. The cerma doesn't do anything to affect the fuel to air ratio so there should be no need to do anything to fool the oxygen sensor.

i have a reasoning, please tell me if its wrong.

the cerma improves friction and thereby reduces pollution, that extra fuel that was being wasted in the form of pollution is then used up to give the car extra Horsepower. (the people at cerma claim upto 27% more horsepower)
1. better fuel consumption also means less oxygen in the exhaust, a condition that the onboard computer responds with feeding the engine with a richer mixture of fuel.

2. that extra horsepower that youve gained, although is good for highway driving, we dont really need it as much in the city, specially in india where city speeds rarely exceed 25 MPH, so suppose we make the fuel leaner (which will require tuning of the onboard computer / oxygen sensor )and give up that extra HP, we should be able to save a little more fuel.

im not really a mechanic so perhaps im using the wrong term when i say oxygen sensor, but i am under the impression that with cars that have an oxygen sensor and a computer managing the fuel to air ratio it is difficult to modify that ratio without fooling the computer by modifying the signal coming from the oxygen sensor. correct me if im wrong.

JaggedE

[jaggedE]

Sorry i missed this one my friend, he applied it the normal way to Air cons,
Cerma Air

you can use the left over in the bottle for smaller jobs, I know some one who did that .

i noticed i have quite a bit left in the bottle, i was in such a hurry to start driving immediately that i didnt wait for it to stop dripping out of the bottle.
i was going to add it to the oil and take another short drive but using it on the AC sounds like a better idea

thanks.
JaggedE

[citfta]

Partially correct

Hi jaggedE,

Your reasoning is partially correct. You are correct when you say the Cerma increases the efficiency of the engine and helps the fuel to burn more completely. And you are correct the oxygen sensor will see less oxygen in the exhaust. However less oxygen in the exhaust tells the computer the engine is running too rich and therefore it needs to reduce the amount of fuel going to the engine, not increase it. This is why adding Cerma to my car caused the mileage to go from 28 mpg to 32.5 mpg. If the oxygen sensor and computer worked the way you thought my mileage should have gone down. Does that make sense to you? So we really don't need to do anything to fool the oxygen sensor. If anyone has any different ideas on this please share as I am willing to learn if I am wrong on this. This is just my understanding from working on many modern vehicles that have computers in them.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[jaggedE]

thanks for the correction, it was sounding funny while i was saying it but somehow that misconception was stuck in my mind for a while now.
that basically answers my first point.

my second being can you reduce the fuel consumption further by giving up the extra horsepower you are getting?

thanks.
jaggedE

[Skydiver]

Ash - Did you complete the testing of Cerma? (I will PM you too)

This thread has been silent since July...
I am doing research on Cerma and came across this forum and loving it. Other forums reviewing Cerma have people dismissing it without evidence. Of course, evidence is needed to corroborate as well. The other forums are not science forums but still...

I am excited to read other threads on this forum.

[jaggedE]

i tried cerma on an 8 year old opel corsa, which was viberating so much the silencer was actually rattling, viberation went almost completely and hte milage went up by 25%,
i also tried it on a new hyundai i10, with inconclusive results, possibly detrimental but cant be sure because i have a suspicion the treatment wasnt conducted correctly as i wasnt the one doing it myself.

for old cars whos milage has gone down id definitely recommend it, for newer ones more research is needed.

JaggedE

[Cycle]

I'm using LiquiMoly Ceratec on my scooter.

I use 15% Ceratec to 85% Royal Purple 15W-40 synthetic oil. Same with the gear box, but I use 15% Ceratec to 85% Royal Purple 75W-140 gear oil.

The scooter had 6229.8 miles on it when I first put Ceratec in during an oil change (I was supposed to change the oil at 6200 miles, but was too busy to get to it until 6229.8 miles). It's gone through two additional oil changes since, the last one just a couple days ago, each with Ceratec added. The mileage is now at 7400 miles. I'm very anal retentive about breaking in a new engine (I give them a hard break-in, to seat the rings properly), and keeping clean oil in it, so I changed the oil at 25, 50, 100, 200, 400, 800 miles, and every 600 miles after that (or as close to 600 miles as I can get).

When I first put Ceratec in, I noticed a decrease in fuel mileage, from my usual 64 MPG down to about 55 MPG. Part of this was the unusually cold weather we had during that time, and these small engines are extremely sensitive to the temperature of the air they breathe, cold air means lower fuel mileage... but 55 MPG was what I was getting when the bike was brand new and the engine hadn't been broken in yet.

From there, I've noticed that the engine power has steadily increased, I keep hitting new high speed records (so far, I've had it up to 81 MPH on the flat, riding in full-tuck position, which is pretty good for a 174.5 cc four stroke engine, a 334.4 pound bike, and a 200 pound rider, especially when the bike is only rated to reach 65 MPH). My fuel mileage this last fuel-up was the best it's ever been, at 70.72 MPG.

Despite my using variator rollers that are 2 grams heavier than stock, the engine will still go to redline at WOT from a stop, and acceleration is faster than it used to be. On the road, the engine was designed to have just enough power to top out at 8000 RPM and 65 MPH, but mine keeps climbing and climbing... so much so that at road speed I can only ride at 3/4 throttle to avoid the rev limiter.

So apparently the Ceratec has sealed up any irregularities in the piston / piston ring / cylinder wall interface, giving me better than normal compression.

I've used up all 300 mL of the Ceratec with this last oil change, so the next oil change will be just straight oil... I'm hoping to keep the gains in power and fuel mileage I've gained.

One caveat to keep in mind is that if your engine is burning any oil, that ceramic material will plate out on the hottest parts... which is usually your spark plug... and from the reports I've read, it'll foul your plug pretty quickly, given that ceramic is a good insulator.

[Cycle]

Just as an update from my last post, the engine continues achieving higher fuel efficiency even after the LiquiMoly Ceratec is not included during an oil change. The last fuel fill-up calculated out to 75.135 MPG, the one before that was 69.584 MPG, but I'd lost a bit of fuel when I tore apart the fuel injector to clean it (and nicked the o-ring, giving me a leak the first time I fired it up... a new Viton o-ring from Kragen fixed that), and I changed out the 12-micron fuel filter, so I lost a bit of fuel doing that, as well. The fuel-up before that was 74.60 MPG.

I've since ordered a whole passel of parts from my bike's manufacturer... all the parts for the cylinder head, a new piston, and new rear-end gears.

The head I'll assemble and send to Baisley HiPerformance so they can use it to fabricate roller lifters (to replace the OEM flat tappet lifters). When the head comes back to me, I'll disassemble it, and ship the head proper, the valves and the piston to SwainTech Coatings for ceramic heat shield coating. Then the head comes back to me, I'll reassemble the whole thing, and install it on the bike. I'll have to check my squish clearance to be sure the ceramic coating on the head and piston haven't created a situation where the piston slams into the head... if so, I'll have to either go with a thicker head gasket, a spacer between the engine casing and cylinder, or a shorter connecting rod... or (and this is what I want to do), a spacer between the engine casing and cylinder, and a *longer* connecting rod, since I want to get a titanium rod, which will cut some reciprocating mass, and a longer conrod will lessen side friction on the piston, giving better engine longevity and reduces the chances of predetonation. I suspect I'll need to increase the spacing over OEM by about 1 mm, so I should get away with a 5 mm spacer and a 3 mm longer rod.

The rear gears I'll send off to a guy in Belgium who has his own gear cutting machine (he created the rear gears for Craig Vetter's high-mileage cycle), and he'll use them as the template to cut new rear gears that are 7.33:1, to replace the 8.48:1 OEM gears.

And I found a place that can do 5-gas exhaust emissions testing for motorcycles, so I'll be having that done soon, as a baseline. Unfortunately, I didn't find them until *after* I'd put the Fitch Fuel Catalyst modules in my gas tank... so I've got to strip the bike's Tupperware off, open the tank, remove the Fitch Fuel Catalyst modules, run a couple tanks of gas through the bike, *then* get the baseline emissions test done.

Then I'll put the Fitch Fuel Catalyst modules back in, run a couple tanks of gas through the bike, and get another emissions test done, to gauge whether they have any effect upon exhaust emissions.

After that, I'll put the Magnetizer fuel line magnets on, run a couple tanks through the bike, and get it emissions tested again, to gauge whether the Magnetizer has any effect upon exhaust emissions.

The whole while, I'll continue to monitor fuel mileage.

By the time that's all done, my parts should be done getting fabricated, ceramic coated, etc., and I can start putting them in, along with my electric coolant pump system I'm having built (which will replace the mechanical pump... the mechanical pump takes up to 1/4 HP at WOT... the electric mag-drive pumps and microcontroller take ~20 watts total at maximum pump speed with both pumps running... but it'll usually vary one pump's speed to control coolant temperature, so the current draw will usually be less than 20 watts. There's 2 pumps for redundancy and in case an engine overheat requires fast cooling... it measures exhaust, cylinder head and coolant temperature, and kicks both pumps on 100% if an overheat is detected).

Then my electronics guy and I are going to try to build a nanosecond-pulsed corona spark ignition system... the basic premise is that you hit the spark plug (with the J-curve electrode removed) with high voltage at a high frequency. You cut off the high voltage so quickly that it builds up arc streamers, but the voltage is never applied for long enough that it can enter the arc phase. Those arc streamers distribute free radicals throughout the combustion chamber, igniting the fuel:air mix everywhere all at once. Thus, there's no flame front, and no knocking, no matter how lean you run.

And I'll be building a hydrogen/oxygen splitter based upon some pretty nifty concepts, hoping to be able to supplement the fuel being injected with some "hydroxy" gas to improve mileage. It uses Beta-phase Polyvinylidene Fluoride Tetrafluoroethylene (b-PVDF-TrFE) copolymer as a piezoelectric material to absorb vibrations and split the water, along with piezo tweeters at the resonant frequency of the b-PVDF-TrFE, supplemented with vibrations from the engine itself. The b-PVDF-TrFE is expensive (~$8.70 / gram, with a minimum 50 gram purchase from a company in France), but if it works, the fuel saved will quickly pay for the cost of the material.

[sprocket]

Seeing as this old thread has come back to life, I may as well mention my experience with this stuff as well. 6-7 years ago, I used Cermax on a Corolla that had seen better days and saw no improvements whatsoever, in either running or fuel efficiency. Just $50 out of pocket.

[BroMikey]

Expensive

About 10 years ago it was expensive to burn this ceramic in your gas tank but it was said that once a coating formed the engine would not always need it.

Mike

Seeing as this old thread has come back to life, I may as well mention my experience with this stuff as well. 6-7 years ago, I used Cermax on a Corolla that had seen better days and saw no improvements whatsoever, in either running or fuel efficiency. Just $50 out of pocket.

[sprocket]

About 10 years ago it was expensive to burn this ceramic in your gas tank but it was said that once a coating formed the engine would not always need it.

Mike

Your post had me scurrying to check the current prices - I thought you were implying that the price had plummeted since I bought it. I'm shocked at what I found - the price has almost trebled in 6 years!

I'm almost certain I payed $47.50 for my Cermax engine treatment 'package' - and that included shipping to Europe! Not only that, I was sent two 2oz bottles, not the 1 (identical looking at that) that they are currently selling for an absurd $96 - which is actually discounted by 23% - it's almost funny!!! The 'treatment' then specifically called for using one bottle, then 3 months later, the other one. If 2 bottles of this goo didn't work for me, what are the chances that one will? And at 3 times the price as well!

This reminds me of perfume sellers - they say you can't give away the stuff, no matter how wondrous the scent if it's not packaged right, but stick it in a fancy bottle and quadruple the price and you can't keep it on the shelves! PT Barnum strikes again...

[BroMikey]

Hot Rods

Ceramic coating work well if you can get one all over your block and heads of your engine. In hot rod racing this coating reflects heat and increases HP or in our case could lower fuel consumption.

I don't think this stuff can cover some dirty surfaces. I talked with the local machine shop man who is 60 years old and has a company called AUTOMOTIVE MACHINE. He said "it could not work well" he went on to say that the right was to take the engine down like he does and clean.

Then the small container with the high price is applied to all surfaces and heated.

Then you will have reflected heat instead of conducted heat.

Mike PS it would cost you a fortune he said to get and engine finally coated that way and I agreed.

Your post had me scurrying to check the current prices - I thought you were implying that the price had plummeted since I bought it. I'm shocked at what I found - the price has almost trebled in 6 years!

I'm almost certain I payed $47.50 for my Cermax engine treatment 'package' - and that included shipping to Europe! Not only that, I was sent two 2oz bottles, not the 1 (identical looking at that) that they are currently selling for an absurd $96 - which is actually discounted by 23% - it's almost funny!!! The 'treatment' then specifically called for using one bottle, then 3 months later, the other one. If 2 bottles of this goo didn't work for me, what are the chances that one will? And at 3 times the price as well!

This reminds me of perfume sellers - they say you can't give away the stuff, no matter how wondrous the scent if it's not packaged right, but stick it in a fancy bottle and quadruple the price and you can't keep it on the shelves! PT Barnum strikes again...

[sprocket]

I remember when I bought the stuff, the guy had said (on his site) that to do the job properly, you should replace all of your engine oil with Cermax - just think how much that would set you back!!! And that was when it was 'cheap'...

I'm not saying it's a scam either, just that it didn't work for me. I would love to hear the rationale for the 3 - 5 times price-increase in just 6 years though!

[BroMikey]

Oil Treatments

10 years ago I said the same thing to Bernie the Machine Shop Man and he said that neither Oil or gas treatment could do a decent job. All kinds of claims protected by LAWYER's fine print. Money scam.

When you think about it you know he is right.

Mike

I remember when I bought the stuff, the guy had said (on his site) that to do the job properly, you should replace all of your engine oil with Cermax - just think how much that would set you back!!! And that was when it was 'cheap'...

I'm not saying it's a scam either, just that it didn't work for me. I would love to hear the rationale for the 3 - 5 times price-increase in just 6 years though!

[Aaron]

Champion QX

Champion QX is the best additive I've seen. It's a "vacclaisocryptene" - the only under-surface lubricant know to science. Penetrates metal and under heat and pressure sweats out gazillions of microscopic beads so it is like having a layer of microscopic ball bearings.

It's beyond documented.