Plasma propulsion / Lifter / EM Antigravity Mini AirCraft

[TanTric]

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I harvey, i also want to experiment with your method, but im not understanding clearly how to make it!

do you know some diagram or site that describes better that kind of experiment with pictures?

hugs and thank you

Here is an experiment for you to try:

Take an old metal can with a metal top, like a paint can and set it in the center of a HDPE cutting board. Drill a hole in the center of the metal top to insert your pulsed DC output wire into and attach the wire to the bottom inside surface of the can (do not penetrate the can) it needs to be a good electrical bond but you cannot go through the material with a bolt as this would nullify the effect. The attachment must be some type of surface attachment. The hole must be sufficient to prevent arcing through your HV wire insulation. Consider that the edges of that hole will be at 300,000V+ DC when the center of your HV lead is at zero volts during a pulse - so you need enough air + wire insulation to prevent dielectric breakdown at that point.

The inside of the can should always measure zero volts while the outside of the can builds to the point of dielectric breakdown of the surrounding air.

Now you can run an HV lead from the outside of the can to your lifter and the voltage should be as high as the surrounding air will allow.



ETA: You may find this video helpful:
Lecture 6: High-Voltage Breakdown, Lightning, Sparks - St. Elmo's Fire

[xee2]

strange because at 20V i can put 2Amps depending on the frequencys, because im powering an NPN transistor base with a frequency generator to adjust what works best. i guess the feedback coil circuit work better? because using just the flyback, my spark will not be far that 1cm, maybe less... and this guy talks about 3cm sparks, so maybe my output its not more that 10.000...

i will try that circuit for shore!!! thank you very much

Hmmm... 2 amps should give more than 1 cm. Driving a transistor with a signal generatior should work. Maybe you need a better flyback coil. The self oscillating circuit with 2 resistors seems to work best but many have gotten good results driving a transistor or fet with a 555 pulse generator. Although my reults trying that were not very good. Have you looked at YouTube for flyback videos? There are a lot of videos there. In addition to the current, the other key thing that controls the output voltage is how quickly the current turns off. A flyback is made to have a slowly rising current that starts at zero amps and turns off very quickly when it reaches a high current level. If your signal generator puts out "saw tooth" waves you might try that. The problem I always seemed to have was that the coil would spark internally when I tried to get really high voltages out. This can short out the coil an destroy its performance. I have never been able to get the really long sparks that are shown on YouTube. I hope you have better luck than me.

[xee2]

@ TanTric

This is the circuit that YuccaOU was using. But he was using 100 ohms and 1000 ohms for the resistors.
Transistor Driven High Voltage Flyback Transformer Page.

[Mark]

Juju if your interested in one of these products let me know and I will give you a link.


Battery powered high voltage module is capable of charging capacitors and other field worthy applications. Operates from an 8 "AA", 12Vdc battery pack and can fit into a 1 ½" plastic tube. Generates 5000 volts DC at 5ma. as shown. This module can supply up to 20,000 volts and is available in the following output levels:

CHARGE1 - Plans for 5-20KV (By Download - $3.00) .......$5.00
CHARGE05 - 5000 volts at 5ma ..........................................$49.95
CHARGE05K - Kit/Plans 5000 volts at 5ma ......................$34.95
CHARGE10 - 10,000 volts at 2.5ma ...................................$59.95
CHARGE10K - Kit/Plans 10,000 volts at 2.5ma ...............$39.95
CHARGE20 - 20,000 volts at 1ma .......................................$69.95
CHARGE20K - Kit/Plans 20,000 volts at 1ma ...................$44.95


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 Stage Low Power Voltage Multiplier
For use with above MINIMAX series, built on a 1.25 x 4" polycarbonate board with discharge limiting resistor. Open assembly is operable as is, but can easily be potted for operation in high humidity conditions.
Quantity
MULTI50 - Voltage Multiplier ...........$39.95
10-25 @ $33.95ea.


Mark

[TanTric]

uauu mark, this seem very interesting product and so small??!! 20KV at 1ma will be ideal for my experiments, maybe i will purchase one.. please share link or send me a message!

hugs

Juju if your interested in one of these products let me know and I will give you a link.


Battery powered high voltage module is capable of charging capacitors and other field worthy applications. Operates from an 8 "AA", 12Vdc battery pack and can fit into a 1 ½" plastic tube. Generates 5000 volts DC at 5ma. as shown. This module can supply up to 20,000 volts and is available in the following output levels:

CHARGE1 - Plans for 5-20KV (By Download - $3.00) .......$5.00
CHARGE05 - 5000 volts at 5ma ..........................................$49.95
CHARGE05K - Kit/Plans 5000 volts at 5ma ......................$34.95
CHARGE10 - 10,000 volts at 2.5ma ...................................$59.95
CHARGE10K - Kit/Plans 10,000 volts at 2.5ma ...............$39.95
CHARGE20 - 20,000 volts at 1ma .......................................$69.95
CHARGE20K - Kit/Plans 20,000 volts at 1ma ...................$44.95


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 Stage Low Power Voltage Multiplier
For use with above MINIMAX series, built on a 1.25 x 4" polycarbonate board with discharge limiting resistor. Open assembly is operable as is, but can easily be potted for operation in high humidity conditions.
Quantity
MULTI50 - Voltage Multiplier ...........$39.95
10-25 @ $33.95ea.


Mark

[Mark]

Here you go, have fun!

High Voltage, High Frequency Power Supplies

Mark

[TanTric]

yupiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

If Mohammed dont go to the mountain the mountain go to Mohammed!!

i was not outputing enough voltage, so i made an even more small craft! and im able to get a 0.5cm very stable lift above the ground!!



but only now i finnaly found a real voltage tripler just as naudin, in my big old color damaged tv, it was there all the time, and i had a click in my mind to search it again...

is the thing on the left side, a relay switch?



sucahyo reference:

[xee2]

yupiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

If Mohammed dont go to the mountain the mountain go to Mohammed!!

i was not outputing enough voltage, so i made an even more small craft! and im able to get a 0.5cm very stable lift above the ground!!



but only now i finnaly found a real voltage tripler just as naudin, in my big old color damaged tv, it was there all the time, and i had a click in my mind to search it again...

Remenber, the triplers need AC drive thus only work with flybacks that do not have diodes in them. So you might want to salvage the flyback from the same TV you got the tripler from.

[TanTric]

...

@xee2, thank you.. so its really not possible to use a common flyback with dc output?

how do i know what is the e1, e2 and ~ pin on my tripler? mine the red cable says "G2" and brown cable is "T"... the blue cable i think it is the HV output, but there is another pin on the bottom, as you can see in my previews pic!



Color TVs usually contain a 3-stage cascade in a plastic housing to produce the accelerating voltage for the picture tube. They give 27-30kV dc when fed with an input voltage of about 8kV (peak-to-peak). If you've got the type as shown, connect your input to (~), ground to (e1) and expect the output on (hv out) (the thickly insulated lead). Don't connect (e2), it will short-circuit your ac source. There's a similar type around, but with these two cables swapped, so check this out if it doesn't work. On some cascades, (e1) is labeled "A" and (e2) "D". The additional solder-tag (not labeled in the above image) gives the output of the first stage (i.e. about 8kV). For a circuit diagram see 80kV super cascade. As ac input source you could use an oil burner ignition transformer or, better, the 8kV 20kHz flyback supply.
These things are easy to get, relatively harmless and widely usable for a lot of experiments. Also, they are the components of the super-cascade described below, so go and get a bunch of these :-)

HINTS: That end of the hv cable that's plugged into the CRT contains a current-limiting resistor, so it's advisable to leave the whole cable untouched. Discharging the cascade without this or a similar resisitor (some kOhm) will sooner or later destroy it.

Source: 30kV TV-cascade

[Harvey]

The E2 or D connection will have a DC path to the HV lead through all of the diodes and internal resistor. The E1 or A will be DC blocked by a capacitor as will the ~ (AC) connection.

[TanTric]

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thank you harvey, but mine dont say E2 or D, E1 or A, but G2 (red on my pic) and T (brown on my pic)

you suggest i open the tripler, to identify the pins as your description?

The E2 or D connection will have a DC path to the HV lead through all of the diodes and internal resistor. The E1 or A will be DC blocked by a capacitor as will the ~ (AC) connection.

[Harvey]

This is purely a GUESS on my part but here is how I would ID the device:

Thicker insulation Wire = HV lead to CRT Anode = Output

G2 = Grid Two (screen bias) on CRT neck = Output

T = Transformer = AC input

Stud = Ground Reference for AC input and HV outputs (Note that many TV's and monitors have the AC neutral grounded after passing through an isolation transformer)

If my GUESS is correct, then the G2 is a tap from a HV voltage divider. Most of the monitors I have worked with have two adjustments on this device, one is for Screen and one is for Focus. Each having corresponding wires marked G2 and G2-F or SCR and FOC respectively. The resistive divider is placed internally between the HV Anode wire and the Stud.

If there are no adjustments on your device, then the G2 may have been wired to a separate HV divider in the set prior to going to the tube neck.

You can try putting a low voltage (2 to 5 volts) AC input between the brown and stud terminals and see if you get a multiplied pulsed DC output on the HV lead. Be sure to fuse your supply and you may even want to put a series resistor of about 10 ohms in there for your first attempts to limit the input current. Just remember the voltage across the internal diodes needs to be at least 0.7V to get it into forward conduction so you probably need at least 1V between the brown lead and the reference stud during the prelim test.

What are the numbers on that particular unit?

[TanTric]

yeap, i have the FOCUS and G2 adjustments (potentiometers) on the back of the tripler...

so let me see if i understanded correctly, the "stud" (pin without cable) is the ~ ACIN? , and the brown cable (T) is the ground (e1)? and then the more thick blue wire is HV output... correct? and the red cable marked as G2 should not be used right? i would put 2 x 22K resistors in series with output to limit current...

i will use the same flyback with AC output, and resistors that were in the same old tv that i took the tripler!

This is purely a GUESS on my part but here is how I would ID the device:

Thicker insulation Wire = HV lead to CRT Anode = Output

G2 = Grid Two (screen bias) on CRT neck = Output

T = Transformer = AC input

Stud = Ground Reference for AC input and HV outputs (Note that many TV's and monitors have the AC neutral grounded after passing through an isolation transformer)

If my GUESS is correct, then the G2 is a tap from a HV voltage divider. Most of the monitors I have worked with have two adjustments on this device, one is for Screen and one is for Focus. Each having corresponding wires marked G2 and G2-F or SCR and FOC respectively. The resistive divider is placed internally between the HV Anode wire and the Stud.

If there are no adjustments on your device, then the G2 may have been wired to a separate HV divider in the set prior to going to the tube neck.

You can try putting a low voltage (2 to 5 volts) AC input between the brown and stud terminals and see if you get a multiplied pulsed DC output on the HV lead. Be sure to fuse your supply and you may even want to put a series resistor of about 10 ohms in there for your first attempts to limit the input current. Just remember the voltage across the internal diodes needs to be at least 0.7V to get it into forward conduction so you probably need at least 1V between the brown lead and the reference stud during the prelim test.

What are the numbers on that particular unit?

[Harvey]

If Brown is labeled 'T' then Brown could be Transformer AC in (Hot).

The STUD could be AC reference (Neutral) = Chassis Ground.

And of course Red should be the G2 bias which is an adjusted by the pot.

[Harvey]

For What it is worth, here is some old documentation from GE:


Zoom Image

Zoom Image

Notice that there is no 'T' Reference, but instead they have a 'F' reference for focus. Also notice that the F reference can come off a diode directly or from a resistor divider.