The worlds new energy generator

[gasman]

That may well be, Matt, and if "son of Engin" has nothing further to provide on this subject then I think we could safely assume that is the case, but let's give him a chance to reply before reaching that conclusion.

agreed. I his posts did send up several red flags. (I'll point out some below). But red flags don't absolutely rule out legitimacy.

some red flags that made me suspicious:

1. Asking for money.

2. Very lofty, too-good-to-be-true claims. (1. great device. 2. nobody has funded it yet, through normal channels, and so on)

3. Referring to someone (or some technology) that is well-known: Tesla (ad also implying reference to his technology/ies). Many scammers use this to imply legitimacy through association (even though no association may exist), especially to those unfamiliar with the subject or the technology. This is compounded by the fact that the reference is very vague. (Tesla and his "power").

4. (a little more complicated) He refers to someone ("Mr Dick Korff") who is (presumably) successful in a related field (investing in technology). He seems to be trying to add impetus to the transfer of funds. (such and such is successful, now you have a chance to invest before he gets to me! hurry!) this can be important (for a scam) for a number of reasons. Scammers use this tactic trying to get funds faster: A. before they are caught B. to make sure the victim doesn't think it through C. to imply that the rewards will be high, further speeding up money transfer and attractiveness of the offer. and so on and so forth. Once the money is transferred (in any way), it is gone.

5. The name "Engin." I've never heard of this surname, and it is directly related to the subject. Scammers use mnemonic devices like that for 3 main reasons: 1. To identify their own work, as they try to delete their traces. 2. To remember what the offer was when doing multiple scams (ohh, this guy is asking about the engine scam! Then they look up their txt file with the offers and correspondence thus far). The last thing they want to do is forget, and have to find ways of asking which scam it was they're asking about, without drawing attention. And 3. They believe that it makes them anonymous... which is completely false.

6. Claiming not to be the person. In this case, claiming to be his son. This is used for a few reasons. 1. The person could be a newbie at scamming, and someone has told them that it is a legal defense to prosecution if they word it like that in the posts. Get on google (or, preferably, WestLaw or LexisNexis, for those who have access) and search for a min and anyone can see how effective that is. This is probably the least likely, but it does happen. 2. For people thrown off by red flags, this tactic leads them to think that "Ohh, it isn't the genius inventor that is stupid, it is his son! No wonder they are asking for legitimate funding in stupid places!" 3. The scammer is foreign (typically from some country in Africa). They often use this tactic if they aren't proficient in the English language, as it gives them several advantages, most importantly "outs" if cornered on anything.

7. The patent claims and vagueness strongly implies that the person has no idea wtf he is talking about, and hopes that the victim doesn't either (he only needs one person...). His vagueness and unwillingness to post patent numbers, or any details whatsoever about anything (including his device) strongly supports this. He seems to be trying to hide his ignorance by claiming that he doesn't want to give out detail, lest others will scam him. Which brings me to number 8...

8. The person clearly has very little knowledge of the patent process, even though he claims to have at least one US patent (US is implied in a few ways in the post) on this "device" alone. Despite his attempts to hide his ignorance, he fell flat on his face with that one. But again, all he needs is one person who also has no idea about the patent process to be successful.

9. "Dear User." This strongly implies poor knowledge of the English language. I see this often with foreigners. They don't know how to address people in certain settings properly, so they directly translate words from their native language (sometimes using a thesaurus) and use the word(s) in ways that native speakers would not.

There are some more little things in there that are more vague, but you get the idea. Unfortunately, he does seem to be foreign (probably African), which means that, even if identified, there is a very low chance he would be prosecuted or punished in any way. The governments in many of these countries have enough trouble staying in power, and simply don't have the means to enforce laws like these. The only thing the general public can do is become educated, and educate others so that there are fewer victims.

All that being said... the only way to prove that the person is a scammer is for someone to be scammed, or for the person to admit that it is a scam. The person might be legitimate. I highly doubt it, but it cannot be ruled out. But I have a hunch that we won't be hearing anything else from Mr. "Engin" or his "son." Kudos for everyone immediately being suspicious.

[rickoff]

Unfortunately, he does seem to be foreign (probably African), which means that, even if identified, there is a very low chance he would be prosecuted or punished in any way.

Hmmmm, African, huh?

Perhaps a deceiver of Kenyan origin, and maybe even a B.O. family member? It wouldn't be surprising if that were the case.

[Harvey]

I am willing to bet there no patent. He probably doesn't have enough BS in him to follow through with anything more than the original statement.'
Simple Nigerien Scam. (Thats the Feds name for it)

Matt

Actually the name is "Nigerian 419" scam: Federal Bureau of Investigation - Common Fraud Schemes

[Engin]

Unfortunately there are no people in this forum with standarts. I was looking for an investor to buy a percentage of the patent and was asking for Mr. Korff. Thank you for his Information.

[Allcanadian]

@All
I think this thread would seem to be reminiscent of a good old fashion witch hunt in which the accused has been judged to be guilty my mob rule alone. This person has simply stated they have developed technology and that they are looking for investment money to further develop it and yet almost everyone here has decided in their minds that this is a scam. Then to go further as the thread progresses there is a hint of some African mob conspiracy, lol, priceless. Everyone here would seem to know a great deal of "facts" about something in which no real facts exist, that is this person has claimed they need money to develop a technology --- that is the only real fact in this entire thread and the rest is little more than hearsay.
I cannot speak for anyone here but I would rather be duped one thousand times to find one success than to never have succeeded at all because this one success is not about "me", it is about helping make billions of peoples lives better. I am not stupid nor ignorant to the facts but I will give everyone the benefit of doubt as a matter of integrity until I have been given facts to prove otherwise.
Regards
AC

[Matthew Jones]

@All
I think this thread would seem to be reminiscent of a good old fashion witch hunt in which the accused has been judged to be guilty my mob rule alone. This person has simply stated they have developed technology and that they are looking for investment money to further develop it and yet almost everyone here has decided in their minds that this is a scam. Then to go further as the thread progresses there is a hint of some African mob conspiracy, lol, priceless. Everyone here would seem to know a great deal of "facts" about something in which no real facts exist, that is this person has claimed they need money to develop a technology --- that is the only real fact in this entire thread and the rest is little more than hearsay.
I cannot speak for anyone here but I would rather be duped one thousand times to find one success than to never have succeeded at all because this one success is not about "me", it is about helping make billions of peoples lives better. I am not stupid nor ignorant to the facts but I will give everyone the benefit of the doubt as a matter of integrity until I have been given facts to prove otherwise.
Regards
AC

I like to give them the benefit of the doubt as well, thats why I offered money up to get a look at the patent. Although he came and criticized us for our obvious doubt he still did not provide a patent number. Instead this was his answer.

Unfortunately there are no people in this forum with standarts. I was looking for an investor to buy a percentage of the patent and was asking for Mr. Korff. Thank you for his Information.

A patent was issued yet he cannot even challenge the "doubt" we have with a valid patent number. It unfortunate for him. He'll have to deal with Korff who ever that may be. I would be willing to provide some funding with no return if the device looks feasible.

I am sure this is a scam, as he can provide no proof. Just bait the hook with a little incoherence and see if someone bites with out doubt.

Matt

[jibbguy]

Serendipity?

Dick Korff is the guy who made a statement that "he has seen Free Energy before", in the video done when Turkish inventor Maummer Yildiz gave the public demonstration of his "all-magnet" motor on April 20th 2010; at Delft University in the Netherlands, in front of many witnesses.

YouTube - Tesla komt na 100 jaar toch weer om de hoek

Although i must admit, that "googleing" Mr. Korff would seem to do as well as asking for him here.

_______________________

Wow i just realized, this is also the Press Release Date for Dr. Daniel Nocera of M.I.T.'s amazing announcement that he and his team have managed to increase energy efficiency in their hydroxy production, using cheap and common materials for the catalyst compounds used in the electrodes... By ONE HUNDRED FOLD; giving us Peer Reviewed Proof from a prestigious source of the validity of hydroxy technology, and its ability to greatly help END OIL.

Coincidence? Or is there some significance to the dates being the same lol?

[Allcanadian]

@Matthew Jones

I like to give them the benefit of the doubt as well, thats why I offered money up to get a look at the patent. Although he came and criticized us for our obvious doubt he still did not provide a patent number.

I do not mean to imply anything, but what would you think if a business person who by nature is primarily motivated by personal gain offered money only to see your patent?. If one were mistrusting one could assume this person who is primarily motivated by personal gain might want to produce a cheap variation of this same technology and call it their own. Again, I mean no offense but it would seem an equal or greater amount of "scamming" if that is what you want to call it occurs on the "investor" side of the equation as a matter of personal motivation, that is personal gain.

I am sure this is a scam, as he can provide no proof. Just bait the hook with a little incoherence and see if someone bites with out doubt.

If this is the case then we might consider everyone here in this forum as a "scammer" of sorts, everyone here would seem to believe and have others believe in a form of technology which has never been proven beyond a shadow of doubt as such there is no real "proof" of anything. You cannot apply one frame of logic to others and another frame of logic to yourself as the perspective may reverse but the frame of logic cannot. Simply put maybe we should judge others as we would have them judge us . That said, has anyone here been given any reason to trust you? If we are to start pointing fingers at others maybe the first place to start pointing may be into a mirror.
Regards
AC

[shawn]

Engin Dear User,
I have an invention which produces energy with the tesla "power" and already have a patent on it. Now I can't continiue finishing my generator and have reached a point where I need financial help.
I am looking for someone to support me to finish my project and show it to the world because it will be a milestone in the history of inventions and physics.
I've heard of Mr Dick Korff helping other inventors to get their message out. Now I want to know how I can reach him or someone else like him.
I am not Engin myself I'm his Son. I am writing this in the name of him.

Best regards
Engin

If it is to great a financial burden then build a scaled down version.
Micro, not macro.
Save up some cash and keep at it.
Once you have a small working prototype which proves the theory which is obviously not some high-tech trickery, then it is an easy matter to find money.
And you wouldn't be announcing yourself to the world as you just have.
If you are for real, you have just put yourself on the radar so to speak.
Anonymity is an important principle if you are into the energy device game.
If you have a genuine technology then you are a target of the energy cartels who don't like competition and will do whatever it takes to keep it that way.

[gasman]

@Matthew Jones

If this is the case then we might consider everyone here in this forum as a "scammer" of sorts, everyone here would seem to believe and have others believe in a form of technology which has never been proven beyond a shadow of doubt as such there is no real "proof" of anything. You cannot apply one frame of logic to others and another frame of logic to yourself as the perspective may reverse but the frame of logic cannot. Simply put maybe we should judge others as we would have them judge us . That said, has anyone here been given any reason to trust you? If we are to start pointing fingers at others maybe the first place to start pointing may be into a mirror.
Regards
AC

So, what you're saying is: Since we can't prove beyond absolutely all doubt that he is a scammer, he is therefore certainly not a scammer? Pot calling the kettle black, eh?

I'm with Matthew. Read my last post, and then read the original post (and subsequent posts). There are things that are certain: 1. his story (from his initial post) is certainly impossible to be truthful. Patenting an idea in the realm of perpetual energy devices is impossible. Because both ideas in general, and such devices in particular simply cannot be patented (and both for obvious reasons).

So, no matter what, his statements were not truthful. The issue is whether he is a scammer. To answer that, we must prove what his intentions are. Are they purely for some paranoid or delusional fantasy (stemming from a severe mental disorder), for the simple purpose of "trolling" (to enjoy reading all of our responses for entertainment purposes), or are they to defraud someone out of money? Well, first of all, he specifically stated that he is seeking funding. But, as I said earlier, that doesn't necessarily rule out that he is a troll or that he has severe mental troubles. Both of those are still quite possible. And, especially with the mental disorder scenario, that doesn't necessarily prove intent to fraud/scam. Therefore, there is the (small) chance that his intent is not to defraud, and that he genuinely (though delusionally) believes that he has such a device (of plans for such a device) and that he owns patents on it. To simplify further, that means "Mr Engin" and/or his son might not have illegitimate intentions.

A simple lack of intelligence can be ruled out because a lack of intelligence does not make one a liar. Either disorder, mal intent, or trolling fit well.

[Allcanadian]

@Gasman

So, what you're saying is: Since we can't prove beyond absolutely all doubt that he is a scammer, he is therefore certainly not a scammer? Pot calling the kettle black, eh?

No, I am saying I think you are crazy as a loon --- basically.

I'm with Matthew. Read my last post, and then read the original post (and subsequent posts). There are things that are certain: 1. his story (from his initial post) is certainly impossible to be truthful. Patenting an idea in the realm of perpetual energy devices is impossible.

Is it impossible to invent a device based on Tesla's work and patent it? I would submit it may be very likely if you know anything of Tesla's work. As well he did not state that it was a perpetual energy device, you seem to have fabricated this out of this air as well as most of what you have stated in my opinion.

Regards
AC

[gasman]

@Gasman

A.No, I am saying I think you are crazy as a loon --- basically.


B.Is it impossible to invent a device based on Tesla's work and patent it? I would submit it may be very likely if you know anything of Tesla's work.

C.As well he did not state that it was a perpetual energy device, you seem to have fabricated this out of this air as well as most of what you have stated in my opinion.

Regards
AC

A. Fair enough.

B. Well, I didn't say that, but it depends on how closely related the devices are. If the device inspires a new idea that results in a new device, then no, it is perfectly acceptable to patent it. (By "New Device", I mean whatever the US Patent office would define as a different enough to not be prior art.) If not, then a patent would not be given due to "prior art." Even then, though, there is the possibility that the reviewer will miss prior art and give the patent. But it is never technically valid, and would be annulled (recognized as never having been valid) as soon as prior art is established. So, technically, even if it is a knock-off of prior art, there may have still been a patent issued.

You did not address the point that the original poster made the impossible claim that he had patented an idea.

C. He did not directly say "this device is a perpetual energy device." However, he did strongly imply it. A vaguely described device? Check. Mysteriously solves the world's energy needs? Check. Asking for information on someone who believes in perpetual energy devices (and who has, according to the original poster, helped people with such technology)? Check. It does not matter whether Mr Dick Korff actually does those things, just that the original poster claimed (believed) it. Could he be talking about a device that is not perpetual? Yes. Scammers often imply such things without directly stating them because it appeals to a wider audience. Both believers and non-believers could interpret it in their own way (people "read what they want to read" just like the "hear what they want to hear"). This is a very common manipulation strategy.

More importantly, though: If the device is not perpetual, does it make my premise fall? No. There are still many things supporting the conclusion that it is a scam. Also, to reiterate, does all the strong evidence that it is a scam certainly mean it is a scam? No (as I've explained already in greater detail before).

Labeling people who voice suspicion about a very suspicious post as witch hunters is uncalled for, imo. Are we supposed to remain silent and let an unsuspecting forum-going friend here be scammed? False accusations should always be avoided, but pointing out a very suspicious is perfectly acceptable. He was given chances to explain himself and, as predicted, did not. At least, he has yet to offer any sort of explanation.

[gmeast]

things NOT ideas

This seems to confirm what I have often stated, that people can somehow patent ideas, and in fact don't need to show a working model to the patent office.

Seems rather bizarre really, as the credibility of all patents issued then becomes extremely suspect and in the main, quite meaningless.

I agree,

It's distressing that people seem to be able to get patents on 'non' proven concepts and ideas. WTF ! I have several patents to my credit, but I never even applied for any of them BEFORE I had working prototypes.

According to the patent office:

"... a patent must contain sufficient description and information such that someone skilled in the art can read the patent, build the device and (here's the most important part) IT SHALL WORK ..."

If there is not sufficient information to build a working device then the patent is invalid, can be challenged and the rights stripped from the 'inventor;' & transferred to victor, sumarily.

I only vaguely recall that the first Germanium diode patent was a process patent and that it was challenged because someone followed the recipe in the patent and the diode did not work. The inventors failed to disclose (their trade secret) that the 'goop' had to be 'baked in the sun for a while' (or something). The judge gave the patent rights to the challenger. You can't have a trade secret in a patent. All must be disclosed. If you need to rely on a trade secret (like Coka Cola syrup) then you must resort to writing it down and putting it in a safe.

I'm mystified as to what has happened to the patent process, inventor & patent office integrity!!!

There's no patent on any such Engin device & if I'm wrong, out with the number dude !

Greg

[rickoff]

Unfortunately there are no people in this forum with standarts. I was looking for an investor to buy a percentage of the patent and was asking for Mr. Korff. Thank you for his Information.

Hmmm, I have never heard of "standarts." What are they?

Perhaps you meant to say that no one here has any standards, such as a standard of decency and respect for others. If that's the case, I would disagree with you. You came here touting your invention as "the world's new energy generator," and looking for either mister Korff, "or someone like him." In other words, an investor. Some of our members responded with interest, and even stated that they would be willing to invest in your technology if you can validate your claims. One of your claims is that you "already have a patent" for the invention, and several of us politely asked you to provide us with the patent number so that we can at least validate that claim. So far, though, you have failed to produce a patent number, or a drawing, or even a description of your device. You are not likely to find investors anywhere who are willing to part with their money unless you are willing to be more responsive, and able to validate your claims. When you failed to respond with validation, you yourself initiated the skepticism that you now see here. Healthy skepticism does not indicate that our members have no standards. Instead, it shows that our members set a high standard for validating lofty claims. The burden of validation is a two way street. First, you must show us something that appears to validate your claims. Then it is up to us to scrutinize what you have shown us, and determine whether or not the information you have provided is factual. So far you have not offered up anything to support or validate your claims, so it should not be surprising to you that people here are beginning to lose interest, and to lose patience with you. You can still redeem this thread if you will respond to member requests in a sincere manner, but I would suggest that you do so quickly if you wish to save face in this matter.

Regards,

Rick

[Allcanadian]

@gmeast

I'm mystified as to what has happened to the patent process, inventor & patent office integrity!!!

There's no patent on any such Engin device & if I'm wrong, out with the number dude !

I think this quality you call integrity can be misleading at times, if in fact Engin disclosed his patent number to everyone here and his patent provided a wealth of information and knowledge --- I wonder if anyone here would have the integrity to compensate him with even a dime for what may constitute a lifetime of work on his part? And if anyone here found great personal success due to this sharing of knowledge I have to wonder how many would share their success with the the inspiration for it? or would we distance ourselves as far away from it so that we would not need to share our success with anyone, as is often the case.
Personally I find this thought of the right or entitlement to knowledge or technology that a person has done nothing to deserve offensive.
The sole purpose of a patent is to protect the right's of the inventor and this protection is justified. As such, I believe you may have this question of integrity completely backwards, it is not the patent process, the patent office nor the inventor which lacks integrity -- it is everyone else who believes they are entitled to something for nothing.
Regards
AC