Outside The Box Ideas

[gmeat]

Hello All, Well,I figured now is as good a time as any to start a thread that's not for the faint of heart he,he,he.I want this thread to be for the adventurers that might have a whacky idea in the back of their heads.OK,I'll take the 1st crack at this thread buy posting a whacky thought that I had from not to far after starting my research of overunity devices.Has anyone considered building a device that would put out hi amperage (a homopolar generator)and high voltage (a whimshurst generator) and combining the two together? Hmmm,I wonder if this would be worth pursuing...-Gary

[Reiyuki]

Gmeat, you said homopolar generator and high voltage, that just happens to be something I've been working on the last few weeks. I've been drafting a sort of paper on it, as I am on travel and cannot build one yet. The general idea is to use a bifilar-series (or possibly straight spiral) coil rather than a disk to generate a higher-than-normal voltage. Since the lorentz force is based on current and not voltage, a higher than normal power might be generated.
Let me know what you think.


Here are the generic equations that drive homopolar motors/generators.

Lorentz Force: F=QVB
F=Force (Newtons)
Q=Electrostatic Charge (Columbs)
V=Velocity (Meters/Second)
B=Magnetic cross-field (Teslas)
(Note 1 Columb = 1 Amp-Second in this paper)

Voltage Induction: E=BV
E=Volts
B=Magnetic cross-field (Teslas)
V=Velocity (Meters/Second)

Current Induction: I= BV / R
I=Current (Amps)
B=Magnetic cross-field (Teslas)
V=Velocity (Meters/Second)
R=Resistance

By itself, a simple metal disk cannot output more because the equations balance out. Adding to velocity or magnetic field will add to the lorentz counter-force at an equal rate.

So increasing the size of the disk, the speed, or the magnetic field will not improve the efficiency (besides conventional losses) because the Lorentz force goes up the same.



Example Motor:

Surface velocity of 10m/s
B= .1 Tesla
Disk resistance = .005 Ohms

Volts Generated = B*V (.1t * 10volt) = 1 Volt
Current Generated = I=(B*V)/R (.1t*10m/s)/.005ohm = 200 Amps
Wattage = E*I (1volt*200amp) = 200 Watts
Lorentz Counterforce = Columbs*B*V (200amp * .1tesla * 10m/s) = 200 Newtons

Doubling speed to 20m/s

Volts = .1t * 20m/s = 2 Volts
Current = (.1t * 20m/s) / .005ohm = 400 Amps
Wattage = 2volts * 400amps = 800 Watts
Lorentz Counterforce = 400 * .1 * 20 = 800 Newtons

On a conventional unipolar motor: power output grows 400%, and the Lorentz counterforce grows by 400%.



An Alternative: thanks to Tesla

By using a short bifilar-series pancake coil rather than a disk, the voltage generated will grow exponentially to magnetic field and velocity.

If we spin this rather than a disk, our voltage will grow by up to ^2 while the current (and lorentz counterforce) grow by merely *2. (A straight spiral might work as well, I'm not sure.)


Example bifilar coil:

Example Motor:
Surface velocity of 10m/s
B= .1 Tesla
Coil resistance = .005 Ohms
Coil composed of 10 turns

Volts Generated = B*V*turns (.1t * 10volts * 10) = 10 Volt
Current Generated = I=(B*V)/R (.1*10)/.005 = 200 Amps
Wattage = 10*200 = 2000 Watts
Lorentz Counterforce = Columbs*B*V(200amp * .1tesla * 10m/s) = 200 Newtons

Double speed to 20m/s

Volts = .1*20*10 = 20 Volts
Current = .1 * 20 / .005 = 400 Amps
Wattage = 20*400 = 8000 Watts
Lorentz Counterforce = 400 * .1 * 20 = 800 Newtons

On a hypothetical bifilar motor, Lorentz counterforce grows by 400%, but thanks to the voltage trick,
total power output grows 4000%



As a pleasant side-effect, the motor is also generating substantially higher voltages than conventional unipolar motors, making the output directly usable.


I got the idea from Bruce's thread at overunity.com and from going over tesla's work.

1888 - 'Dynamo Electric Machine' - A counter-rotating unipolar generator patent.
1891 - 'Notes on a Unipolar Dynamo', talks of spiral disks and using output to amplify magnetic fields. He was clearly working on Faraday motors.
1893 - 'Coil for Electromagnets' - using bifilar electromagnets for improved performance.

Going over some of the non-classified 'homopolar induction alternator'(google) patents online, there's also some pretty interesting information. Mostly concerning Navy/AF power systems and railgun power supplies.

Hope that helps you out

-Rei

[Sephiroth]

Hello All, Well,I figured now is as good a time as any to start a thread that's not for the faint of heart he,he,he.I want this thread to be for the adventurers that might have a whacky idea in the back of their heads.OK,I'll take the 1st crack at this thread buy posting a whacky thought that I had from not to far after starting my research of overunity devices.Has anyone considered building a device that would put out hi amperage (a homopolar generator)and high voltage (a whimshurst generator) and combining the two together? Hmmm,I wonder if this would be worth pursuing...-Gary

Have you looked into Thane Heins generators? He has done a bit of work combining high voltage with high current coils you might find interesting.

[Dingus]

Well, I'll just go ahead and re-post the idea I posted on the T.T.Brown Electrogravitc thread the other day:

I read a news post linked recently on PES wiki about Wingate Lambertson (here), & I couldn't help but notice the similarities between his device & T.T.Brown's Cellular Gravitator. Reading further on rex research an idea hit me when I read the words "falling electrons gain energy" & imagined it all too literally as falling downward towards the earth due to gravity. This briefly prompted me to think that his device worked like a gravitator but in reverse, pulsing dc briefly (it says he used a pulsating dc input) to start the flow of electrons & then 'catching' the falling electrons for a brief period to generate output.

I wanted to make sure I got that out before i completely forgot.
And before anyone corrects me, yes I know that's not what 'falling electrons' typically means. I am also well aware that this probably won't work in the slightest, I just prefer share my funny thoughts rather than keep it to myself. (it also wouldn't be too hard to test for someone who already has a functioning gravitator setup)