Help - Problem charging old UPS dead battery's

[nvisser]

Hi Seamonkey
You can mail me that diagram.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi SeaMonkey, heat is not a problem using the circuits i posted and yes these circuits cause the transistor to run cool to the touch and charge batteries very well and desulfating them. Though I'm sure if the transistor specs are exceeded it will heat up. Besides your suggestion is more complicated and costly, whereas a simple self oscillator will do the job. Whatever works for you i say.
peace love light
Tyson

[sucahyo]

My own version of the circuit operates at about 3 KHz which I've found to be ideal for charging NiCd, NiMH and lead acid cells/batteries up to 12 Volts 7 AH.

What is the output current you use to charge those battery? I ask because I usually use just maxed it .

[totoalas]

You want to protect what?

I use 250V cap and it still working now even if the circuit produce >1000V on open connection. I have been charging at 500mA rate for many months now. The only time I experience busted transistor was when I connect a charged battery while the circuit still running.

Thanks for the swift reply
Ive just revived a 2 years old 70ah car battery and a 12ah bike battery using groundloop circuit..... desulfate and used normal charger

I want to protect or isolate the circuit from the output as groundloop did

But i need also a fast charger instead of battery parallel connection between 2 cars i always forget to switch off my headlight or park light

Hope somebody can share a simple circuit with easily affordable and spare parts

totoalas

[baroutologos]

Hello seamonkey,

I see you are well educated on the subject of battery desulphation and i need your advice. I recently obtained for few euros one large SUV type used and exhausted battery 12v 72Ah, that is Sealed Calcium lead type with a liquid indicator that shows it need replacement.

I have normally charged it till full (15v) and measured its capacity. It is more or less 2-3Ah! I then repetedly pulse charge it (40mH inductor, 3x6A10 diodes directly, IRF4229 Mosfet driven by a 555 circuit) Depsite all this efforts, the battery has exactly the same capacity. It does not seem to desulphate or anything do to gain any marginal capacity (pulse charge it at C20 cycle about 10 times)

The battery is in excellent physical condition like new looking, standing voltage 13 when discharged and 13,5 when charged

What do you suggest?

[SeaMonkey]

I have normally charged it till full (15v) and measured its capacity. It is more or less 2-3Ah! I then repetedly pulse charge it (0,2mH inductor, 3x6A10 diodes directly, IRF4229 Mosfet driven by a 555 circuit) Depsite all this efforts, the battery has exactly the same capacity. It does not seem to desulphate or anything do to gain any marginal capacity (pulse charge it at C20 cycle about 10 times)

The battery is in excellent physical condition like new looking, standing voltage 13 when discharged and 13,5 when charged

What do you suggest?

From what you've described the battery does seem to
be a very good candidate for desulfation.

Can you tell whether the cells have sufficient electrolyte
water? If possible, add distilled water to the cells to
bring the electrolyte up to the proper level. Very frequently
a loss of battery capacity is caused by insufficient water
in the battery.

While desulfating/charging the measured voltage across the
battery may increase to an abnormally high value. With a
very heavily sulfated battery it may rise to over 30 Volts
(sometimes as high as 50 Volts) for some time before it begins
to decrease to a 'normal' value. This is a good sign when it
happens. Do not be alarmed should this happen with your
battery - it means that the pulses are having the desired
effect.

Desulfation can be a very slow process. If the sulfation that
has built up in the battery has acquired crystalline structure
it will be reversed only very slowly. Some batteries must be
pulsed for several weeks continuously in order to begin to
see signs of improvement.

Once the battery voltage stabilizes as a result of desulfation
allow it to charge to about 15 Volts. Some 'bubbling' is desired
so long as it is not too vigorous. While desulfating/charging the
battery do not let it become 'hot' to the touch. It may get
'warm' but if it gets hot damage is likely to occur.

Once the battery begins to show signs of recovery, perform
several cycles of desulfate/charge and test discharge. As
the battery is 'cycled' it should reach its maximum capacity.

Your battery is a good test case. Please keep us all informed
of your progress with it.

[SeaMonkey]

What is the output current you use to charge those battery? I ask because I usually use just maxed it .

My circuit is powered by a wall transformer supply rated
at 14 Volts, 400 mA, so I limit my input current to the
circuit to slightly less than 400 mA. For larger batteries
I approach the maximum; for smaller batteries (AAA or AA)
I may decrease the current to 50 mA or even less.

I control the current flow by adjusting the pulse width;
decreased pulse width produces less current flow.

I like to desulfate/charge the lead acid batteries slowly
to keep their temperatures cool to slightly warm.

With the NiCd or NiMH cells I pulse them until they begin
to get warm to the touch. Once they get warm they're
fully charged.

[SeaMonkey]

Thanks for the swift reply
...i always forget to switch off my headlight or park light

Hope somebody can share a simple circuit with easily affordable and spare parts

totoalas

It is possible to build a small 'beeper' device that
ties into the lighting circuits. It will 'beep' when
you turn off the ignition to remind you that lights
are still on.

[jeanna]

.....

I control the current flow by adjusting the pulse width;
decreased pulse width produces less current flow.

I like to desulfate/charge the lead acid batteries slowly
to keep their temperatures cool to slightly warm.
.......

Hi seamonkey,

I noticed your earlier reply and tried something, and it gave me a question.

I used a joule thief with a secondary that produces a range of 147v to 1111v at 5khz.
I can change the pulse width by turning a rheostat pot at the pos input from the jt battery.

I had been using this output to spike repair a sla that probably shorted. I think that might be different from desulphated, not sure.

So, after I read that post about getting better results by changing the pw, I hand turned the pot a little. I took DMM voltage measurements at some points.

When the pot was letting the volts be over about 400v spikes, the DMM changed from 9.89v to -14v to -16v.
That is minus 13 volts to minus 16 volts.
I did this last night and the normal charger seemed to bring the battery to a higher level this morning.

I am wondering if you can first,
tell me if I did what you are suggesting?
and second,
What is this minus?
Is this something like what J Bedini calls negative or positive charge?

So,
Thanks for the suggestion and
Can you please explain this?

thank you,

jeanna

[SeaMonkey]

...
I used a joule thief with a secondary that produces a range of 147v to 1111v at 5khz.
...
I can change the pulse width by turning a rheostat pot at the pos input from the jt battery.
...
So, after I read that post about getting better results by changing the pw, I hand turned the pot a little. I took DMM voltage measurements at some points.
...
When the pot was letting the volts be over about 400v spikes, the DMM changed from 9.89v to -14v to -16v.
That is minus 13 volts to minus 16 volts.
...
I am wondering if you can first,
tell me if I did what you are suggesting?
and second,
What is this minus?
Is this something like what J Bedini calls negative or positive charge?

So,
Thanks for the suggestion and
Can you please explain this?

thank you,

jeanna

I'm unclear regarding the pulse magnitudes you measured.
The pulses ranging from 147 Volts to 1111 Volts - where
and how did you measure them; with or without any load?
Are you taking the output pulses from the secondary
winding of a transformer in the collector circuit?


The variable resistance in the base circuit will cause the
pulse width of the oscillations to vary as well as the
consequent pulse amplitude at the output.

The voltage that seemed to change polarity - was that
measured across the battery being pulsed? If so, the
apparent change of polarity would be difficult to explain.

Can you make a drawing showing how everything was
connected?

[theremart]

It is possible to build a small 'beeper' device that
ties into the lighting circuits. It will 'beep' when
you turn off the ignition to remind you that lights
are still on.

NAPA #782-1637 Lights On Buzzer


I killed many batteries on my old car I installed this and saved many batteries.

[sucahyo]

My circuit is powered by a wall transformer supply rated at 14 Volts, 400 mA, so I limit my input current to the circuit to slightly less than 400 mA. For larger batteries I approach the maximum; for smaller batteries (AAA or AA) I may decrease the current to 50 mA or even less.

I control the current flow by adjusting the pulse width; decreased pulse width produces less current flow.

Thank you. Interesting that you can power your circuit with such low amp rating power supply. I guess my circuit demand more than what amp meter indicate. Amp meter show only 250mA consumed from 2A transformer but the transformer can not keep up and drop its voltage!

Maybe burst consumption during on time can not be detected by the voltmeter / amp meter.

I like to desulfate/charge the lead acid batteries slowly to keep their temperatures cool to slightly warm.

With the NiCd or NiMH cells I pulse them until they begin to get warm to the touch. Once they get warm they're fully charged.

Same here. I currently charging 1000mAh nicad with 1.6V at 330mA output. Do not get even warm after an hour .

Still amazed to see that I can push 330mA to the battery without making them hot .

[sucahyo]

But i need also a fast charger instead of battery parallel connection between 2 cars i always forget to switch off my headlight or park light

How fast is fast?

My solution would be joining many coil output until it reach C10 of battery rating, 7 Amp for 70Ah battery. With my stingo, it may take 14 of them...

[baroutologos]

From what you've described the battery does seem to
be a very good candidate for desulfation.

Can you tell whether the cells have sufficient electrolyte
water? If possible, add distilled water to the cells to
bring the electrolyte up to the proper level. Very frequently
a loss of battery capacity is caused by insufficient water
in the battery.

Hello again. Thanks for prompt reply. I have read about sulfation and the voltage increase it creates. Actually i have studied the particular battery and does not show any sign of sulfation. By pulse charging it (i have tried also my small SSG) the voltage rises quite predictably and rather slowly as if the battery is new.
The only difference in behaviour i have noticed between a new battery and this is the capacity. Instead of having claimed 72Ah or even 50Ah it has... 2-3Ah ! Actually it shows no signs of sulfation to me, as it would take eagerly pulse or whatever charging.

...
regarding the electrolyte, i do not have a clue.
This is hermetically sealed type battery having a little clear indicator labeled (green-ok, black-need recharging, clear - needs replacing) Its clear, unless stired a bit that becomes OK, and when the electrolyte subsides becomes clear again.

[totoalas]

Beeper

It is possible to build a small 'beeper' device that
ties into the lighting circuits. It will 'beep' when
you turn off the ignition to remind you that lights
are still on.

Thanks seamonkey I will install a relay and a mini tesla with led

I just rememered your name 32 yrs ago there is a brand seamonkey n novelty shhop where you can sse swimming monkeys in a glass of water hehehehe


Suchayo i am opting for a 10 minutes rapid charger portable