Help - Problem charging old UPS dead battery's

[sucahyo]

IMO, the battery has developed something upon its plates that prohibits the acid to do its function.

That is what radiant good at. By forcing the voltage to be as high as possible. We mix normal electricity in between to allow faster and real charging.

[totoalas]

Desulfation

This is a response from hope post 84 in groundloop thread 12v car battery maybe dead?


Melt in warm distilledwater 10 teaspoons Epson salts, distrubute equally into cells of a 850 amp hr battery cook 2amp discharge to 9volts recharge at 2 amps lead sulfation is GONE! can repeat this around 5 times over the years )) GL if your battery is different size multiply diminisions and compare to 850 amp battery to get a ratio that is correct for your battery. )) Your battery sounds like it is shorted in one cell (prob is normally in most negative cell, perhaps a total dumping and refilling will remove that crap in the bottom that can short your plates, then clean the plates with the mag sul (epsom salts), BEWARE!!!! Your fluid is an acid!!! Treat it like poison dont get it on you or anything you want to keep! Filter the fluids and reuse or replace with fresh electrolyte

Has anyone tried this?
cheers
totoalas

[nvisser]

UPS batteries

I opened one of these sealed ups batteries yesterday.
If you do that you will see why it is not possible to recover them.
They are so compact and the acid is contained in a 3mm flat piece of fibre sheet. So once it is dry I don't think it will suck up water very easily. The plate looks like perforated lead with some soft solid stuff in it. I am not sure if that was from sulfation.
Inside a UPS the battery is under constant charge of 13.8V. So after a year most of this batteries are cooked dry. Also if you get a lot of power failures this batteries work like hell. To drive only a 60W load on the output the battery has to supply 5A continuously which is way over the spec and very bad for the battery.
I wonder sometimes if this equipment does not get designed to kill batteries. There are a lot off electronics in there and to just built a proper charger in there that monitors the battery voltage and stop charging when it is full would cost them nothing extra.
The Epson salts or any other chemical method would not work on them as all the chemicals would just settle on top.
The only of these batteries that I could recover had about 11V in them and I opened the sealed cover and removed the rubber plugs and add some water in the hope that some will get absorbed. Then I charged them with a desulfater circuit(inductive discharge) and they were usable again but never as good as a new battery.
So I got to the conclusion that we have to get real wet lead acid batteries for most of our Bedini experiments at least.

[wings]

I opened one of these sealed ups batteries yesterday.
If you do that you will see why it is not possible to recover them.
They are so compact and the acid is contained in a 3mm flat piece of fibre sheet. So once it is dry I don't think it will suck up water very easily. The plate looks like perforated lead with some soft solid stuff in it. I am not sure if that was from sulfation.
..........
I opened the sealed cover and removed the rubber plugs and add some water in the hope that some will get absorbed. Then I charged them with a desulfater circuit(inductive discharge) and they were usable again but never as good as a new battery.
So I got to the conclusion that we have to get real wet lead acid batteries for most of our Bedini experiments at least.

inside view of small battery here:
http://www.batteryweb.com/manuals/techman.pdf

[SeaMonkey]

I opened one of these sealed ups batteries yesterday.
If you do that you will see why it is not possible to recover them.
They are so compact and the acid is contained in a 3mm flat piece of fibre sheet. So once it is dry I don't think it will suck up water very easily. The plate looks like perforated lead with some soft solid stuff in it. I am not sure if that was from sulfation.
Inside a UPS the battery is under constant charge of 13.8V. So after a year most of this batteries are cooked dry. Also if you get a lot of power failures this batteries work like hell. To drive only a 60W load on the output the battery has to supply 5A continuously which is way over the spec and very bad for the battery.
I wonder sometimes if this equipment does not get designed to kill batteries. There are a lot off electronics in there and to just built a proper charger in there that monitors the battery voltage and stop charging when it is full would cost them nothing extra.
The Epsom salts or any other chemical method would not work on them as all the chemicals would just settle on top.
The only of these batteries that I could recover had about 11V in them and I opened the sealed cover and removed the rubber plugs and add some water in the hope that some will get absorbed. Then I charged them with a desulfater circuit(inductive discharge) and they were usable again but never as good as a new battery.
So I got to the conclusion that we have to get real wet lead acid batteries for most of our Bedini experiments at least.

They do take a beating for a certainty!

Actually, I've had pretty good success recovering
those badly deteriorated sealed batteries; so long
as the cells aren't shorted.

I carefully expose the vent caps and with a syringe
slowly add distilled water until the fiber plate separators
are saturated. It takes time for the water to seep
into the cells so patience is needed.

Then I hook them up to my pulser to desulfate them
for a prolonged period of time while monitoring the
voltage and temperature. They may get warm to
the touch but I never let them get hot.

After several weeks they will have recovered considerable
capacity. Then a series of charge/discharge cycles with
continued pulsing will benefit them more.

It isn't always possible to get back full capacity, but
70% or better is nearly always possible. But only so long
as none of the cells have shorts.

My pulsing circuit is a 'modified' desulfator which is
powered by a small DC transformer wall wart.

Attached is the diagram for the CMOS Desulfator
Circuit which is the basis for my pulser. The desulfator
circuit as diagrammed is a variant of the Couper circuit
which is powered by the battery being treated.

[sucahyo]

So I got to the conclusion that we have to get real wet lead acid batteries for most of our Bedini experiments at least.

Yes. It is stated on r-charge manual that radiant kill SLA by more gassing.

[SeaMonkey]

Yes. It is stated on r-charge manual that radiant kill SLA by more gassing.

If so, that may be a design flaw in the charger.


With "wet cell" batteries a certain amount of
gassing is beneficial to the electrolyte in that
it mixes it well, thus preventing stratification.

Long pulses will encourage gassing while very
short pulses will encourage desulfation with
little gassing.

If gassing is excessive it can be damaging to the
battery. Very short pulses (5 microSeconds or
less) will produce very little gassing.

Long pulses (100 milliSeconds or more) will produce
much gassing.

For charging/desulfating/rejuvenating Sealed Lead
Acid batteries very short pulses are needed.

[nvisser]

That is true
I found that slow cap pulsing kills them instantly.

[sucahyo]

If so, that may be a design flaw in the charger.

???

r-charge is radiant charger and it is not designed to charge SLA. Bedini himself tell people not to use SLA for his Bedini circuit experiment.


No mater what the duration of the pulse is, I think radiant will produce more gas than normal electricity just because radiant charger can force more current to the cell. You can test it by using radiant charge for electrolysis and compare it with normal electricity.

[SeaMonkey]

???

r-charge is radiant charger and it is not designed to charge SLA. Bedini himself tell people not to use SLA for his Bedini circuit experiment.


No matter what the duration of the pulse is, I think radiant will produce more gas than normal electricity just because radiant charger can force more current to the cell. You can test it by using radiant charge for electrolysis and compare it with normal electricity.

Since the Bedini "R-Charger" is manufactured for
commerce its EMI/RFI characteristics must comply
with mandated specifications.

Since "Radiant Energy" is Radio Frequency Spikes his
"R-Charger" must, by design, minimize spike production
which would by classified as "Electromagnetic Interference"
or "Radio Frequency Interference" by the approving authorities.

His device appears to produce a slowly pulsating capacitive
discharge pulse, so far with unknown parameters,
probably to avoid EMI/RFI. Hopefully, one of those who've
purchased one of the units will be able to shed some light
on what its output pulses "look like."

The very thing (Radiant Energy) which makes battery
rejuvenation possible is deemed "illegal" for commercially
manufactured devices.

I've powered an electrolyzer by both "pure DC" and "Radiant
Energy Spikes" in order to make comparisons. Both can be
fairly efficient. When the pure DC power is limited to low
voltage and low currrent, the electrolysis is very efficient
although gas production is very slow. With Radiant Spikes
and fiddling with the pulsing frequency some very surprising
observations can be made.

Low voltage DC with the Radiant Spikes superimposed is
the best; very good gas production rate with very little
power wasted as heat. This is, in essence, what the Bob
Boyce electrolyzer does.

[sucahyo]

Low voltage DC with the Radiant Spikes superimposed is the best; very good gas production rate with very little
power wasted as heat. This is, in essence, what the Bob Boyce electrolyzer does.

Ok. I get your point. Although I don't agree with this last thing though. Bob Boyce toroid produce 10 times power multiplication for non HHO implementation.

[SeaMonkey]

Ok. I get your point. Although I don't agree with this last thing though. Bob Boyce toroid produce 10 times power multiplication for non HHO implementation.

Some who've experimented with the Boyce Toroid
with harmonic pulse excitation have reported tremendous
surges of energy. I haven't verified this procedure.

[totoalas]

Fast charger

I think the throttles are 4k7 or some use a hall effect throttle. Yes 7aH gell batteries work fine and make a more portable booster charger unit. I have started a car many times off these batteries.

Hi Bolt1

Ive purchased 4 speed controllers for electric bike but dont know how to connect them maybe you can help me with this
black/red 24 v dc supply
white/blue motor
Yellow speed black 0 volts Red +5 volts
(above for connection to 4k7 var resistor)

Green brake black 0 volts red + 5 volts
For the brake ???? black and red common for speed and brake?????

hope you can help me

cheers

totoalas

[Guruji]

Br to Cap

Sucahyo one of the threads you posted a schematic I cold not understand. You said that it would be effective as Jeanna is doing with positve and negative charging.
You do a Br and a Cap in parallel to the charge battery?
Thanks

[sucahyo]

Sucahyo one of the threads you posted a schematic I cold not understand. You said that it would be effective as Jeanna is doing with positve and negative charging.
You do a Br and a Cap in parallel to the charge battery?
Thanks

I don't understand how it work either.

I use the cap in series with the bridge, twice more efficient than usual single diode charging.