Schauberger tornado generator; how I see it

[Matos de Matos]

Hi everybody:

I posted the follow in Ted Ewert thread, http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...project-4.html but he did not comment, probably the thread is closed.
So I decided to open a new thread.

I haven’t paid much attention to Viktor Schauberger work, but the picture below called my attention, and this is my first impression and how I see it. Probably a nonsense, but, well I want to learn, correct me, please.
The nozzle of the whorl pipes have double function; the jet impairs a force on the rim, pushing on it and the repulse of water hits the upper impellers and pushes it in the same direction of the rim.
I think that a direct jet will give higher velocity in the direction contrary that on the drawing. Why have the same water jets ricochet and work against a baffler that will push in the opposite direction?
They both rotate in the same direction. I am not sure which will rotate faster, but the inertia of rotating water in a tornado type, has a lot of energy.
The rim is connected to impellers, which create the water tornado. (Baffler)
The inner of the rotating water does not funnel much, because the air is bleed out on the outer of the vessel ( release valve)reducing the atmospheric pressure on the water.
The whorl pipes are united in a ring that immerses on the water that is rotating.
The inner water at high velocity and low pressure will ascend the whorl pipe. The outer walls of the vacuum zone are the start of the spiral pipes, like channels. The egg shape format and an ideal angle on the whorl pipes will accelerate the water that will transform its kinetic energy in to potential in the ring.


Thank you
David

[Harvey]

I have only read some superficial info on Viktor's work and watched a few films regarding his life and development so I certainly am not the one to ask regarding his designs.

From what little I have observed, he developed an inward intuition regarding the behavior of water which resulted in designing structures that offered practically zero resistance to its flow.

One of the structures he developed is seen in the Whorl pipes. The cohesive nature of water is very dominant, but even more noticeable is the adhesive characteristics. Spray some water on a glass surface and watch how well it sticks. It is almost impossible to wipe it dry.

In Viktor's spirals he found relationships that seemed to twist the molecules away from the surfaces of the conduit and eliminate the adhesive actions. So moving the water through these structures resulted in very little loss. The centrifugal action of the water flow would have offered a high velocity at the exit as the same volume must move faster to travel through the smaller space. The drawing shows an exit thrust of 17.9 hp per jet. But the jets are arranged such that the exit force is nearly perpendicular to the direction of rotation so that it has no negative torque. So all of the energy is deflected nearly tangent to push the arms with the greatest force. That part of the design is somewhat counter intuitive because the arms appear to be pointing the wrong way for 'jet-propulsion' in the indicated direction of motion.

Evidently the motion of the arms would create a movement of the inner atmosphere and drag the water with it in an undesirable way, so baffles are included to prevent that motion. I am somewhat surprised that he did not employ the same technique in the pickup bay to keep a fluid motion and direct the water inward instead of using the rather perpendicular baffles. But I am sure this concept arose from hands on experimentation and he may have discovered that this was best. Just as the Wright Brothers discovered that the square struts had less wind resistance than the round ones and marine animals showing us how to reduce drag even with the inclusion of vortex generation, Viktor no doubt had insights that we are yet to learn and fully comprehend.

It is interesting that in order to shut the device off the inlet flow needed to be regulated with the adjustment underneath.

It would be interesting to investigate a real assembled product.

[Cherryman]

Hi all,

I played with a similar, as Ted and you, idea myself as well.

Only i wanted to harness the outflow with water turbines.

Here are some concept drawings. You might be of any assistance to youre ideas.













Not building this (yet) i am scavenging materials and have another unfinished project on the shellf.

Somehow however i do think this concept has merit.

Good luck

[Karl_Palsness]

There is a get together every two years at his son's ( or grandson's) house where enthusiasts can come and see the machine. They even take the machine apart and show how it works inside. I have pictures somewhere of how it looks but can't find they anywhere at the moment. it is very tall where the spirals go. He truly had a great understanding of energy. He made water flow the way Ed L thought of Magnetism. I was amazed as how complex the machine was for been made so long ago....and we thought we where modern...lol.

Karl

[Matos de Matos]

There is a get together every two years at his son's ( or grandson's) house where enthusiasts can come and see the machine. They even take the machine apart and show how it works inside. I have pictures somewhere of how it looks but can't find they anywhere at the moment. it is very tall where the spirals go. He truly had a great understanding of energy. He made water flow the way Ed L thought of Magnetism. I was amazed as how complex the machine was for been made so long ago....and we thought we where modern...lol.

Karl

Hi Karl:
Thank you for participating.
I would love to see those pictures.
I am posting the picture you post on the other tread, just to illustrate the funnel effect that atmospheric air pressure does when we turn water around. It funnels in the middle due to decrease of water pressure in the inside where the water runs faster (Bernoulli).
Now if we take atmospheric pressure out, pumping the air out, will not the water raise in the middle due to Arquimedes buoyancy?
Thank you
David
Vortex_No_Turbine.jpg

PS: Imagine that the water is moving around by other means, and the hole down is plug up.

[Matos de Matos]

Hi all,

Somehow however i do think this concept has merit.

Good luck

Hi Cherryman:

All the merit, great thinking and spectacular graphics.
In my opinion you shall go ahead and do a prototype, first only with the fly wheel and the immersed tubing to see if centrifugal will pump water and with which pressure.
I could not find if Ted made water pumping through the rotating arms, if so you may have something there.
Thanks for sharing,
David

[Matos de Matos]

The drawing shows an exit thrust of 17.9 hp per jet. But the jets are arranged such that the exit force is nearly perpendicular to the direction of rotation so that it has no negative torque. So all of the energy is deflected nearly tangent to push the arms with the greatest force. That part of the design is somewhat counter intuitive because the arms appear to be pointing the wrong way for 'jet-propulsion' in the indicated direction of motion.

It is interesting that in order to shut the device off the inlet flow needed to be regulated with the adjustment underneath.

It would be interesting to investigate a real assembled product.

Hi Harvey

Thank you for your post.
I do not know much about Victor´s work nether, and this is my opinion looking at this drawings.
I am wonder why this generator is not mass produced if there is a sample in his family house.
Doesn´t work?
Did he hide some particularities of the real in the patents?
It is counter intuitive the drawing on the left where the pipes are pointing the direction of the rotation, isn´t it?
That is why I thought of moving ring, and the sticking impeller on the tip of the jet, made me think on both rotating in the same direction.
If the rim was rotating, and without bafflers on the pickup, seem logical to create the tornado with moving bafflers.

Thank you
David