Gray Circuit Malfunction

[Guest]

Hello all, very nice to be here - I've been studying up a bit
on Ed Gray's system, and have built a small platform system, still
incomplete.

Below is the schematic of what I have put together thus far, and
a some pictures showing its construction. The tube portion is
composed of two copper grounding rods held into place by paraffin
disks, and each wooden side is insulated from the platform by a
layer of silicone rtv.









Initially it was found that the 30kv diode wasn't letting through
any of the 12v, so an inquiry was made and it turns out they drop
roughly 55V, so a transformer was utilized in the following way -





The result was negative, and I'm running out of ideas concerning
how to best proceed.

To Aaron - I've begun wading through the information you've posted
regarding Gray's technology, and must congratulate and thank you for
sharing in this archaic realm of energy generation.

I realize that my capacitor bank is quite a bit on the small side;
I'll be modifying it at a later time, but is there anything obvious
that I'm just not realizing with this that could be causing malfunction?

[Aaron]

Ed Gray Tube circuit

Hi Geotron,

Just saw this. Will respond soon. I'm happy to see you're experimenting
with this the Gray circuit!

[SilverToGold]

Go study ALL of Peter Linderman's work on Gray and look at the Bedini schematics. If you want to really understand this technology, go to the direct sources that pretty much gives you the full process and understanding of this technology.

Your circuit misses the whole idea of what makes Gray work. You need a PULSE DC to the gray tube. A HV AC will NOT work. That means a bridge rectifier and a LARGE high voltage cap on the high voltage side. And a carbon "resistor" in the tube to get the correct effect to show more strongly. Also, the tube's spark gap needs to be closer to the low voltage side and not in the middle as you have it. One side of the spark gap CREATES negative charges and the other positive. Even if your tube did work, these charges would be neutralizing each other out and you would not be getting nearly as much energy from your grid. Working Gray tubes are lopsided.

Also go look at Eric Dollard's video for free on YouTube on Tesla technology to see the actual effect that makes the Gray tube work. He shows the circuit and charges a capacitor at a distance with it.

Go do more research and you should be successful. This is about the only real and fully disclosed circuit out there for really high energy gains. But you've got to do the research.

As you have it now, you do NOT have a gray tube at all but keep working at it and you should be getting some interesting effects. Best of luck.

[Aaron]

12v as low voltage source

Geotron,

It is very difficult to get it to work with a battery. I have done it only a
few times.

What I would do is replace the battery with a capacitor like 300v 330uf
or so. Then charge it with a separate power supply. If you get the plasma
burst in the tube, then your circuit is hooked up right and you'll know that
it is the challenge to get it to work with a battery.

At 12v, it is MUCH more difficult to get that low of voltage to follow the
high voltage over the gap to the grids. The tube has to be extremely
ionized to do this so that the nitrogen is atomic and very, very conductive.
Otherwise, you need a cap with a few hundred volts at least.

[Guest]

reply

Thank you for your responses!

[ SilverToGold ]
The source of my high voltage is a cascade multiplier,formerly used to
generate negative ions for cleaning the air. It is most certainly
DC, as far as I'm aware. The use of a large capacitor is something
I've failed to put into practice though; this is something I'll be
looking into, as well as a high voltage DC power source a bit closer
in match to the 5KV [ John Bedini ] has used on his schematics.


[ Aaron ] - What I would very much like is to use a capacitor that charges
from the 12V battery, then bursts through the 30kv diode, although I'm
not fully certain how this would work. Initially one of the things I
tried was a 470uF 35v, and found that it would not charge up without
the emitting side connected to ground - I'm confused as to how one can
be charged up from only a single side, the other attached to the
electrode leading into the tube... would using the capacitor as some
kind of gap pool be how to correctly view it?

What if I was to pulse charge a Telecon 16v 4700uF capacitor, and
send it through one side of the 20x transformer into the LV electrode
through the diode? I'm not entirely certain how it would occur
mechanically due to my previous findings with hooking one up in
pursuit of charging it to a full state not being what I had pictured.

[Guest]

liquid capacitor illustrated

I've been reading up on capacitance, dielectric materials and how they
are used. With my current HV power supply, the matching 25kv capacitor
would possibly turn out quite large, so I'll be building an inverter
device to plug on to my 12V battery for supplying 120v AC into a stepping
transformer connected into a cascade multiplier. I'm still in need of
proper capacitors... and a sensible way to match their uF ratings with
the amperage of the diodes.



I'll be going through the full circle of radiant energy devices,
so a couple of large capacitors ought to set me up for at least a while.

[Aaron]

Gray Tube questions

Geotron,

If you can post your questions or move all your posts here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...plication.html

You may get a lot more response from others as well.

[lamare]

Today, I re-analysed Gray circuit and it looks like it works completely different than we suspected:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post108329

[Guest]

method

The way I'm now understanding it, the high voltage from the radiant
charger is directed onto the grids from the electrode in the tube,
and the anode of a capacitor through the bridge rectifier.

When the capacitor becomes fully charged, the resulting pulse of
energy passes through the diodes back into the tube, and being
blocked from continuing through the low voltage electrode it
transforms into a radiant form of electricity by collision. ?

[lamare]

@geotron : I worked my theory on Gray and Meyer and Puharich further out. They all use the same principle. We have all been looking in the wrong direction for years.
See here:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

Really, if you want to get this working, do yourself a favour and read what I wrote there. However, it's completely up to you wether or not you choose to do so.

Have a nice day, and happy hunting!

[Aaron]

post video of experiment?

Lamare,

Can you post some videos of some experiments based on your ideas?

[lamare]

Can you post some videos of some experiments based on your ideas?

Hi Aaron,

I formulated a theory, which I think is correct, since it is based on solid theories by Bearden and Prof. Turtur and I can ensure you I did my homework.

However, at this point, it is still a theory that even though it explains the common principle behind three independently systems (Meyer, Gray, Puharich) still needs to be fully proven. While I am fully convinced the basic theory is a solid as a rock, there may be some loose ends and/or details that have to be improved.

Over here, I proposed a circuit that should fully work, or at least to a very large degree (resonance of the load), if my theory is correct. When I have the time, I will build this to see wether or not things turn out the way I expect them to:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post109533

There are multiple versions [of the SEC exciter], this one needs an adjustable coil. IIRC, there is also one which does not need that and is tuned with a variable cap. So, based on this one, you find the schematic attached which I had in mind. I didn't draw all the decoupling caps, etc. but you get the idea. Just switch it on and off using a 555 timer or something like that. If this SEC circuit starts fast enough, I think this should work.

I also drew a comparison with what Gray was more or less doing, so you can see the similarities. If I finally understand this right, with Gray's stuff, you would need a bifilar wound coil or two identical coils in series (as you see with Meyer and Puharich, but for different reasons), because he drives both terminals in phase. With an AV plug, you should not need a bifilar wound primary, so this should work.

Gray used a spark gap oscillator and this is also an oscillator, but one that is much easier to build, tune and control. And because of the ultra wide bandwidth of Doc's circuit, this is about as close as you can get to a real spark gap oscillator with modern electronics.

I have drawn the couple cap before the AV plug, but it may be that you need two couple caps and place them after the AV plug, more or less as I have shown with the Gray equivalent.

So, it will be interesting to experiment with this circuit and make your own variations. It is very similar to what Gray did and with this we will at least get some answers to some of the questions that remain. And with a bit of luck, we hit the jackpot straight away.

You can find the attached pdf with my proposed schematic here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...chable_sec.pdf

Of course, everyone that feels like doing this has my full blessing!

So, have fun and happy hunting to all of you!



-- Arend --

[Aaron]

@Lamare

Lamare,

That is very similar to some tests I did with variations of the VIC
on some Meyer tests.

[lamare]

That is very similar to some tests I did with variations of the VIC
on some Meyer tests.

Hi Aaron,

Did you post any results and/or schematics anywhere?

Would be interested in those.

If my theory is correct, then you have to make sure your couple cap can be considered to be a shortcut at the carrier wave frequency and "open" at the frequencies the load train operates with. Only then you can use the power of the electric field for free, because then any (LF,MF) junk created by your load cannot disturb your driving circuitry. That is basically a translation of Bearden's "don't kill the dipole" into a practical application:

Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

Based on my analysis of the systems built and demonstrated by Gray, Meyer and Puharich, I came to the conclusion that the basic principle is that you decouple load circuitry from driving circuitry in an unusual way, using a rectified carrier wave. By making sure that any frequencies the load circuitry may create are much lower than the carrier frequency, you separate the frequency bands wherein driving circuit and load circuitry are operating. Once you have done that, you can use a simple high pass filter to completely decouple load circuitry from driving circuitry in that sense that virtually no current goes back and forth between driving circuitry and load circuitry. So it's in essence a separation in the frequency domain combined with a high-pass filter trough which only the HF electric field from the carrier wave can pass. No charge carriers are actually exchanged between driving circuitry and load circuitry..


The basic theory for this is Tom Bearden's "don't kill the dipole" as described in this article. Basic conclusion of that: the electric field comes for free. Potential (voltage) comes for free as long as you don't influence the charge carriers that create your dipole, your voltage source. In the analysed systems, they all excite two inductive loads in series. Gray excited both terminals of the load train in phase, while Puharich and Meyer did this out of phase. This explains why Gray most likely used bifilar wound coils. To understand the basic principle, it is perhaps best to think in the line I have been following towards the solution of this mistery, which is as follows.

When you resonate an open coil in full wave resonance, you get high voltage, zero current at the terminals, in phase. So there you have the basic connection to using the voltage source for free, but you have to figure out a way to do that without disturbing the charge carriers that give you the voltage source.

However, with a single coil, the current stays inside the coil, so you can't use that. So, when you split the coil into two, you get the current in the middle for free, provided you don't disturb your voltage source, your driving circuit. So normally, when you use the current, you will disturb the resonance, which will eventually also disturb your driving circuit (because it is somehow coupled with it), so you still have to provide current to keep the system in resonance and pay the price.

And here's the trick: the driving signal is delivered to the coil on top of a half rectified carrier wave, which is fed into the circuit trough a high pass filter. Because the carrier is half rectified, you basically "touch" the coils into one direction, so you don't get any HF in there.

That way, you get the current and the power, but the disturbances caused by using the power, cannot reach the driving circuit, because of the high pass filter! And then you finally got what you want. You can use your voltage source, without disturbing it, so then you don't have to pay the price.

Once you have that clear, you can also imagine that you can drive this principle much further. As long as you make sure you have a proper decoupling between driving circuitry and load circuitry, you can most likely get by without driving the load train into resonance after all. At this moment, this still has to be experimentally verified.

If you would want do go beyond what these three did, the final trick would be to drive two identical loads in opposite phase, so the whole system is perfectly in balance and in resonance.

[Aaron]

Lamare's concepts

Lamare,

That was a couple years ago - results on the Meyer tests were
not impressive but that doesn't mean anything in regards to your
project.

Come to think of it, that step charging on the transformer the
way you mention it before seems also similar to Michael J.N.'s
STEAP experiments.