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Although I've never seen more drought than a local sand drift, this subject is close to my heart, and the main reason I am putting a significant amount of my free time in FE reading.
Excellent stuff Harvey! I'd be interested to learn details of your system.
Will you send hot air down a pipe, to let it condense and return drier, the moisture to be pumped up by solar power?
I am aware of the weather enhancing technology Panacea holds, not to say that I understand it. Really, when I started out reading into FE, I was hoping to find something much less significant than that. An OU water pump system to reverse the dried out rivers, all the way back to central Africa.
The population in Africa seems to a large extent be climate-dependently spread over the land already. Where there is water, more people live. I might well be wrong.
Anyone, it's not just the people we'd bring the moisture to.
Consider how over-grazing can first change a langscape, and when the landscape goes past critical size, also climate.
I am looking for the other way around. Even if the hottest parts of the desert doesn't have the air humidity for rain making, there WILL be an adjacent area that does. Steal back land from the drought, steal back a wetter climate!
To feed Africa, they will need a larger surface with good crops growing. Turn the desert into farmlands. I've read that if a rare rain shower occurs, days later the desert is green. Not lost land for growing things.
Start near the ocean, and get a few hundred meters of greenlands every day, or month. The surface won for farming is huge, and the first new farmlands are won near where people can already live sustainably.
Not too long ago, I came across a wind turbine a guy built, which extract water from the air along with its the kinetic energy. A nice tap at the bottom provide clean water. Solar/heat might be more efficient in the most needing parts of Africa though, and solid state which is an advantage.Comment
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Thanx Wings for those great links
Thanx to Cloxxi for those kind words also
As far as the particulars go on the future project, there are different approaches for specific applications and locations. But I will say as an overview that the project will be aimed particularly at regulating the dew point within the system.
Both cool dry air and potable water will be available from of the system. Occupant structures can be cooled using that air if desired.
As an unrelated note, are you familiar with vortex tubes?"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The DoctorComment
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Vortex tubes, interesting! With so much solar power available, air pressure should be just one step away. Potable water might be created with it also.
In fact the wind turbine I saw, might be a type of vortex tube and water condenser in one. I don't recall the claimed workings, but could see centrifugal force to be a factor. Sling out the water, and collect at the containment.Comment
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Hi HarveyOriginally posted by Harvey View PostThat is a nice setup
Do you know if such systems are being used in your area?
Is it true that there are some areas with no electricity and very little resource that could benefit from the TIRED approach to water heating? I think Ben indicated that they melted the tires down and used that for glue to seal them together and they used hammers and chisels to carve out the metal plates for the top and bottom. We have places in our deserts here in California where some people choose to do things like that - making items from junk yard stuff and putting it to good use in one way or another. Even in other states this takes place also, like [
Strange world we live in.
No, I don´t think so, if municipal piped water is available usually we have electric grid too, and Chinese electric water heathers are used.
The majority of the country does not have water or electrical infrastructures, Wells or rivers are used to supply water and the water temperature is high to take a bath without the need for heating.
Winter is like 3 months and the temperatures are around 15 to 25 ºC.
People are ingenious but have the lack of knowledge and will to construct usable handcraft utensils.
Except on the arid areas there is water available. Electricity is the problem.
If we could provide a 3 to 5 KW domestic electric generator, then life will improve, and water can be pumped.
Few years ago I came up with the idea of using absorption to generate electricity. Isn’t efficient but we need electricity, not high tech, like Stirling or concentrated solar.
I think that we can use simple and available technology like auto turbo compressors working as turbines, http://www.yourownpower.com/Power/grc%20paper.pdf and black pipe to heat water to 50- 60ºC, enough to power ammonia –water absorption or a simple rankine, with for example butane or isopentane working fluid.
With solar energy with 700 W per m2, a bank of 400 m of black pipe spiral ( 40m2) and 10% efficiency we could power a 4Kw generator.
The image shows the idea.
Thank you
David
Sketch 15.JPGComment
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good information here - Open Source Ecology:Originally posted by wings View Post
Open Source Ecology is a movement dedicated to the collaborative development of tools for replicable, open source, modern off-grid "resilient communities." By using [permaculture] and digital fabrication together to provide for basic needs and open source methodology to allow low cost replication of the entire operation, we hope to empower anyone who desires to move beyond the struggle for survival and "evolve to freedom."
Open Source Ecology
solar turbine:
Solar Turbine - Open Source Ecology
and lot of documents:
Files - Solar Turbine | Google Groups
Water for Life - Community water security
http://www.hesperian.info/assets/env...l/Water_EN.pdfLast edited by wings; 09-05-2010, 02:47 PM.Comment
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Hi HarveyOriginally posted by Harvey View Post
I looked at vortex tubes for power generation but they are inefficient on the hot side but fairly efficient cooling.
As always you will surprise us with your device.
I looked too, in the ejectors, special those used by Denso http://www.globaldenso.com/en/techno...or_cycle_e.pdf to improve absorption power generation and I think that they will. Please see:
Gas Assisted Solar Absorption Heat Engine
Nice concept to heat pools:
Styles of Solar Water/Pool Heaters from Dagus Inc.
Thank you
DavidLast edited by Matos de Matos; 09-05-2010, 04:58 PM.Comment
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Always blown away by the caliber of talent here, Harvey,IBoys ,Visse/aramoz thanks a lot guys, this hard work is certainly all going to have to go in a document on the uni site with your credits that's very useful info, i hope to have some more data showing you how beneficial all this contrition is this year, its 13GCM here guys, so be prepared for me to show you what i mean. Very useful info guys, absolutely flawless, man i love the people here.
AshComment
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And we don't want to leave out David, Cloxxki, Wings & Stealth and of course Dr. SchwartzOriginally posted by ashtweth View Post
I see Bruno (bmlobo) posting about in the forum, but it appears he is still learning the protocols here and the need to be on topic. If your reading here Bruno, you may want to start your own topic (thread) where you can keep us updated on your involvement and progress.
Who knows . . . with all this great talent, perhaps there will be no need for me to start that project - perhaps if I give you all some pointers you can run with the concepts and build something up.
The ammonia refrigeration system patented by Einstein is one of the key parts to the system. I saw one of the links above describing that process. This is a proven technology already in production in just about every RV in America with a propane refrigerator. The temperature required to initiate this process can be easily achieved using Solar reflectors.
A second stage system uses a PV / Peltier network to assist in reducing the ambient temperature within the process tower to prepare the air to be processed. The tower itself is designed to lower the air pressure in the condensation zone in order to reach dew point on the collector surfaces. Heat extracted from the air helps create a natural convection on the suction side of an occupant dwelling while the cool dry air is on the pressure side.
A third stage heat exchanger is used just prior to allowing the hot air to escape back into the atmosphere. The energy is used to assist the solar reflectors in their job of boiling the ammonia.
Scavenged water is housed in an underground insulated cistern or man made aquifer.
Reflectors and PV arrays mount to the tower following the Golden Angle to ensure that no two radials are aligned. The resulting spiral creates a tree-like limb structure where the bottom most limbs are the longest. The shade provided by the structure will assist in keeping the cistern shaded and cool. A protection mechanism needs to be provided to prevent damage in high winds and sand storms.
Lastly, a new technology needs to be developed to allow extraction of thermal energy from the air to be converted to that needed by the system. We know that cyclones convert thermal energy to kinetic energy and while this may have some future application, for this purpose I envisage a technology that exploits the differential between air temperature and soil temperature. I think I saw something similar in one of the links provided earlier This will help the system keep working even after sundown.
That is just a general overview.
Last edited by Harvey; 09-06-2010, 08:08 AM."Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The DoctorComment
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Hi Harvey:Originally posted by Harvey View PostAnd we don't want to leave out David, Cloxxki, Wings & Stealth and of course Dr. Schwartz
Who knows . . . with all this great talent, perhaps there will be no need for me to start that project - perhaps if I give you all some pointers you can run with the concepts and build something up.
That is just a general overview.
Are you patenting your ideas?
There is a great post about how patents may suppress new developments please look at:
Sepp Hasslberger: How patents prevent rather than promote adoption of new technologies
Regarding your project here is some info that may help:
Bubble pump for refrigeration
Ammonia -water properties
Solar heat pump generation system
Thank you
DavidComment
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Wally's wonder wheel
Maybe a Wally's wonder wheel would be an option if you can get water to power it. The amount of water would not have to be that great, as all would be lost would mainly be to evaporization. It could give you the power to generate electricity or do other work.It only rotates at about 1 RPM,but can be geared to whatever is necessary. Also the Omish use an ammonia refrigertor that is powered from a flame from a gas stove. It could also be powered by concentrated solar heater. Both could work great in an environment such as a desert of low rainfall area. I think the work being done on this is great. Good Luck. Servel LP, propane, kerosene refrigerators by Dometic stealthLast edited by Stealth; 09-06-2010, 08:28 PM.Comment
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Originally posted by Stealth View Post
Thanx Stealth,
Here are the links to Walley's Wheel
Wonder Wheel
Wallace Minto: Freon Power Wheel"Amy Pond, there is something you need to understand, and someday your life may depend on it: I am definitely a madman with a box." ~The DoctorComment
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Great post Wallace MINTOOriginally posted by Harvey View Post
strange ... same projet many years old is now revised on 2006 patent
Patent number: 7150670
Filing date: Jan 8, 2005
Issue date: Dec 19, 2006
Enclosed vapor pressure rotation device - Google Patent Search
alternative pendulum effect useful for alternative pump - drinking bird
liquid used is Dichloromethane or alcohol
Dichloromethane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Drinking bird - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chapter 5: Thermodynamics -- A simple solar heat engine
http://www.df.uba.ar/users/giribet/f4/drinking_bird.pdf
other
3983704 Solar operated thermodynamic drive Oct 5, 1976
4074534 Thermodynamic motor Feb 21, 1978
4143517 Thermal engine Mar 13, 1979
4145890 Energy generating device Mar 27, 1979
4195486 Energy generating device Apr 1, 1980
4311015 Carnot cycle heat operated motor Jan 19, 1982
4333314 Solar energy system and heat engine therefor Jun 8, 1982
4509329 Gravity-actuated thermal engines Apr 9, 1985
4570444 Solar motor means
3509716 (unknown) May 1970
3785144 (unknown)Last edited by wings; 09-07-2010, 06:51 AM.Comment
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