Possible or not possible: self-sufficient car using and producing renewable energy

[Gulioz]

Dear readers,

Just a moment ago I had an intense discussion with my father concerning renewable energy. Please keep in mind both of us have (very) little knowledge about renewable energy. We did little research with no results, and since I'm eager to know 'the' answer, I decided to give it a try at your forum.

The point of discussion:
Is it possible for a car to be self-sufficient by using and producing renewable energy at the same time?

As in: a car would produce wind energy and/or solar energy, transmitting it to a battery-pack, which keeps the car driving/accelerating/etc.. The battery-pack would save energy to start the engine, get it driving so your wind energy-producing devices will find more wind-resistance, resulting in more energy which will fill the battery-pack again.

I said: yes it is possible.
My father: no it is not.
(long discussion using unsubstantiated argumentation)

Thank you for your time. I hope someone knows the answer, although I think I'm one of the few who doesn't.

Greetings,
Julius van der Kwast (me, son)
Bram van der Kwast (father)
The Netherlands

[Cloxxki]

Today, it has been claimed, but not been proven (else we'd all drive one).

In the future, is >100% efficiency is found somewhere, it may happen.

Lots and lots to read on these forums on people efforts to get on the other size of 100%. I've not seen conclusive proof myself.

Maar ik blijft hopen, en probeer bij te dragen waar ik dat mogelijk kan. Ik heb ook geen technische achtergrond, maar zie wel het belang van echte ontwikkeling. Al tientallen jaren familiewagens die 1:13 lopen, dat is natuurlijk achteruitgang...

[lamare]

Dear readers,

Just a moment ago I had an intense discussion with my father concerning renewable energy. Please keep in mind both of us have (very) little knowledge about renewable energy. We did little research with no results, and since I'm eager to know 'the' answer, I decided to give it a try at your forum.

The point of discussion:
Is it possible for a car to be self-sufficient by using and producing renewable energy at the same time?

As in: a car would produce wind energy and/or solar energy, transmitting it to a battery-pack, which keeps the car driving/accelerating/etc.. The battery-pack would save energy to start the engine, get it driving so your wind energy-producing devices will find more wind-resistance, resulting in more energy which will fill the battery-pack again.

I said: yes it is possible.
My father: no it is not.
(long discussion using unsubstantiated argumentation)

Thank you for your time. I hope someone knows the answer, although I think I'm one of the few who doesn't.

Greetings,
Julius van der Kwast (me, son)
Bram van der Kwast (father)
The Netherlands

It depends how you look at it. It is not possible to create energy out of nothing, but you can tap as much energy as you like out of the electric field for free, including for powering a car. See my article linked below as well as my article "het geheim achter vrije energie" op niburu.nl.

Ik heb mijn huiswerk gedaan en ben er van overtuigd dat mijn theorie klopt...

[Stealth]

I guess it all depends on what kind of car you are talking about. Solar cars have been around for a while,although not on the highways. They have been proven in the solar car endurance runs in several countries. These look nothing like the ones we drive now, and they only work when the sun shines,although they could be used to charge a bank of batteries when not in use. And their distance is limited to the sunlight or stored charge.Tesla built and drove an electric car using his system,but has never been duplicated.There are other ways but only a few have been built. Theoretically,solar electric,hydrogen,regeneration electric,nitrogen,pneumatic and hydraulic are all possible.The biggest problem with electric is storage. As battery technology advances,the reality of solar and electric will become the norm.Combining several of these propulsion systems may be the best bet for powering an automobile for free, or almost free.Even the hybrid cars of today will fall by the wayside when these technologies become available.Good Luck. Stealth

[Gulioz]

Thank you fellow Dutchmen for your quick replies. I will read your article on niburu.nl, and where can I find your linked article?

My father used perpetual motion in his argumentation. He stated that a 100% efficiency of the energy produced by wind energy is not possible (using the second law of thermodynamics if I am correct). Yet I kept saying that if your wind energy-producing devices produces for example 200 kilowatt, and your car needs 150 kilowatt, you should be able to make a car self-efficient. Am I correct or what is wrong with this theory?

[Gulioz]

I guess it all depends on what kind of car you are talking about. Solar cars have been around for a while,although not on the highways. They have been proven in the solar car endurance runs in several countries. These look nothing like the ones we drive now, and they only work when the sun shines,although they could be used to charge a bank of batteries when not in use. And their distance is limited to the sunlight or stored charge.Tesla built and drove an electric car using his system,but has never been duplicated.There are other ways but only a few have been built. Theoretically,solar electric,hydrogen,regeneration electric,nitrogen,pneumatic and hydraulic are all possible.The biggest problem with electric is storage. As battery technology advances,the reality of solar and electric will become the norm.Combining several of these propulsion systems may be the best bet for powering an automobile for free, or almost free.Even the hybrid cars of today will fall by the wayside when these technologies become available.Good Luck. Stealth

Thank you for your declaration, your answer satisfies my question.

Anyone who has more to say, feel free to do so.

Greetings,
Julius van der Kwast

[ashtweth]

Ammonia ones have been done(vezna), This guy has a good idea, just need to make the car out of hemp like they did with an electric one in Canada recently.

YouTube - Our Solution to the BP Gulf Oil Spill Crisis!

Ash

[lamare]

Thank you fellow Dutchmen for your quick replies. I will read your article on niburu.nl, and where can I find your linked article?

My father used perpetual motion in his argumentation. He stated that a 100% efficiency of the energy produced by wind energy is not possible (using the second law of thermodynamics if I am correct). Yet I kept saying that if your wind energy-producing devices produces for example 200 kilowatt, and your car needs 150 kilowatt, you should be able to make a car self-efficient. Am I correct or what is wrong with this theory?

The article is linked in my signature....

About your windmill idea: your father is right about the perpetuum mobile stuff. It can only work if the wind which is already there provides you with enough energy to run your car. If you want to use that energy directly on board, you're probably better of with a good old sail...

[Gulioz]

The article is linked in my signature....

About your windmill idea: your father is right about the perpetuum mobile stuff. It can only work if the wind which is already there provides you with enough energy to run your car. If you want to use that energy directly on board, you're probably better of with a good old sail...

It didn't show it at that time, and when I looked some time later, I saw it and edited my post but it didn't update my post. Not sure what happened there.

[lamare]

It didn't show it at that time, and when I looked some time later, I saw it and edited my post but it didn't update my post. Not sure what happened there.

There seems to be some kind of bug in the forum software. When you use "go advanced" then it (almost?) always works.

I was replying from my mobile phone and then it's a bit hard to post links, but here you go:

My Niburu article:
Het geheim achter vrije energie

My article at Peswiki and the latest pdf version:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki
http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Free_Electric_Energy_latest.pdf

My article comes down to this: based on an analysis by Prof. Claus Turtur it is clear that the electric field is an energy source. While we think that our circuits are powered by either mechanical energy we put into the shaft of a generator, or chemical energy we think we put in a battery, in actual reality it is the electric field that powers our circuits. The theory used by Electrical Engineers is incomplete. We simply don't account for the energy exchange with the vacuum trough the electric field in our normal calculations, because the way we design our circuits makes that the interactions our circuits have with the environment are cancelled out. We design our circuits such that the electric field powers them, but we never get more power out of the electric field than we have to spend to create the field, or, our voltage source.

But once we really understand how this works, we can think of some tricks we can use so that we can use the energy source the electric field provides more efficiently. Now we spend 1 Joule to create a voltage source, which pours out lots of energy into space never to be used. And out of all that energy, we use 1 Joule to power our circuit and another 1 Joule to kill our voltage source. So, all we have to do is find a way to prevent our circuit to kill our energy source, our voltage source while still using the power the electric field created by that voltage source to do useful work.

In my article over at peswiki you can read how Meyer, Puharich and Gray managed to do this, even though Meyer and Puharich could have done a better job had they understood the baisic principles they actually used.

[Cloxxki]

We have barely started using natural resources for car travel.

Google "DDWFTTW". For BlackBird, a cart that goes downwind at 3x the wind speed. Directly Downwind. Not tacking like a sailboat.
Or Aeolus Race, for upwind carts. Limited by prop regulations, they now reach 61% of wind speed, directly upwind. Blackbird in theory can already do well over wind speed, upwind.
Then, there are airfoil vehicle, like Greenbird, 130mph tacking a 55mph? wind.
I once found pictures and a story on a (inverted U shaped) car which ran on just the wind. Only in hedwind it would not work.

Combine the 3 technologies, and your cars runs on the flats, in any wind.
Add solar energy (good for 100mph+ on itself), and you're good for windless days. Add (future invention here) and you'll even run at night.

We could do much more than we already do.
I've made a simple plan of wind assisted train systems, DDWFTTW and Aeolous technology, combine with wind direction panels along the track. Speeds could be higher than of regular trains, on a windy day. And every moment there is no train passing, it would send electricity to the grid, lots of it. Imagine a 100 mile long wind turbine between two major cities.

[CosmicFarmer]

...just need to make the car out of hemp...

-ash
Cheech and chong did that. The car caught fire...



But in answer to the topic - It HAS been possible, however now it is not. For if someone publicized their free energy car, it would be taken from them and the inventor poisoned. So even though the universe allows it to happen, earth won't. The only way POSSIBLE that the self powered car could come into reality is if immediate and worldwide disclosure were to happen, and I'm talking about filling entire towns with schematics on how to make. Plus, the designs of cars now days usually are prohibitive to the conversion. The first step would usually be removing the gas engine block and replacing it with electric, because the metals and sensors on new cars prohibit the Joe cell from working. However diesel engines might be easier to convert to explosive water power, all you need is an engine heater. (heat and pressurize water along a specific curve and at a certain location it explodes violently - more then any ignition gas.)

Even though you would think that a self powered car would be jumped at by any investor with a brain, the real investors with real money are in on the gig and simply would rat you out.
you would have to somehow

1. quietly discover the secret. That means not posting on this forum about it. Do you think ALL 150+ of the people that constantly view this forum are all just hobbyists?

2. Have alot of resources or cash to start your own factory.

3. Hire tight lipped workers

4. Produce your invention en masse

5. get it worldwide, again quietly.

6. "let everyone know" stage.
and most importantly of all - avoid the patent office.

Once the invention hits the streets to where common man can see it worldwide with their own eyes or possibly have one, then I guarantee you the monetary system will collapse soon after. So its almost pointless to try to sell it. Think about how much $ goes into gas. I would say more then 60% of the money worldwide is somehow invested into this poison one way or another. The military has devices that can run their tanks and boats on F/E but usually they stay turned off to keep the impression of oil's need alive.

So in conclusion, Gulioz, BOTH you and your father are right.

[lamare]

But in answer to the topic - It HAS been possible, however now it is not. For if someone publicized their free energy car, it would be taken from them and the inventor poisoned. So even though the universe allows it to happen, earth won't. The only way POSSIBLE that the self powered car could come into reality is if immediate and worldwide disclosure were to happen, and I'm talking about filling entire towns with schematics on how to make.

My take on how to do it:

1. Study until you find the basic principles of how to do it and properly document that.

2. Publish for free on the internet: Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

3. Wait until the replications start popping up all over the place.

[Harvey]

A close answer can be derived from some simple comparisons:

The sun gives us about 100W per square foot:
How Much Solar Energy Hits Earth?

One horsepower = ~740W
Horsepower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My family car has a 212 horsepower engine to get it around safely.

This translates to a need for 1568.8 square feet of sunlight. If your car were six feet wide it would have to be 262 feet long.

Now, we do not need all that square footage available 100% of the time. We can trade square footage for hours here. For example, 1569 square feet in the sun for one hour would give me one hour of driving. But I could use half the square footage in the sun for two hours and get the same one hour of driving. Or one fourth for four hours or one eighth for eight hours. So 196 square feet, in the sun for eight hours could give me 1 hour of driving time. Now that may be doable If my car was 6 feet wide by 33 feet long that would just about work - IF we had 100% conversion of energy from solar to usable power - which we don't. In reality we are probably around 12% efficiency. So even if we wanted to cover our carport with solar cells and use that - we would need 12 times 6 times 33 feet worth of panels which would be a square of about 48 feet. To put that in perspective, many houses in tracts are built on lots 50 feet wide by 100 feet deep - so you would have to cover nearly half your lot with solar panels to drive your car one hour.

The same car requires approximately three gallons of fuel to drive for that same hour (20MPG @ 60mph = 3GPH) and at $3 a gallon, round figures you are looking at $9 per hour to drive my car.

Now let's really blow the top off of this. A recent study my firm did regarding a 5,000 square foot lot revealed that for a given year of sunshine in Southern California we could get an average of about 8 hours per day over the course of the year (very arbitrary). Using that as a factor and calculating the amount of kilowatt hours that could be produced by such a grid and using 15 cents per kilowatt as a target sales price (back to the Electric Company) - it was determined that about $30 of revenue per day could be produced. Of course that is about twice the square footage we needed above, so we could cut that in half and say about $15 per hour equating that to our car. At those rates, it was determined that the cost of the solar panels would not be recovered for eight years. And quite honestly, those were wishful figures - selling the power back to the company is realistically about half that (around 9 cents per kilowatt) currently.

Now, what if I wanted to drive one of those high performance 456HP cars? Of course the Tesla Motors Electric vehicle outperforms most all of those HP cars

Sadly, a fair percentage (16%) of electricity in California is produced by Coal Generators while Solar only accounts for about 0.2% (yes 1/5 of 1%) according to this chart:Sources of Electricity in California: help us break the trend. | Buy Solar Panels for Your Home – 1BOG Group Solar Power Discounts

By far, the greatest source of electrical power in California is Natural Gas

And just in case you haven't heard - a 32" pipe exploded just a few days ago:San Bruno Gas Explosion: Residents Return to Destruction - ABC Newsand so the safety of this fuel source is now called into question.

[synchro]

Bi-toroid transformer.

Thane Heins of Ottowa University has invented a bi-toroid transformer that delivers five times the input. This would make the best after market add on for a free energy alternative that I can think of. Check this link out:

YouTube - BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER DEMO July 11, 2009