The problem with problems

[Allcanadian]

I was thinking over some circuit problems tonight when I remembered a quote by Tesla, Tesla said Edison approached problems in the same manner as one would find a needle in a haystack. That is Edison would methodically examine every single straw until he found the object of his desire --- the needle.
Then I thought on this problem, how would one find a needle in a haystack? I found the solution in a few minutes and it is actually very easy but first you have to understand the real problem.

How do you find a needle in a haystack in a few hours with only two small non-electronic objects you can hold in your hands?

You need one match and one powerful permanent magnet.

Now one could ask what was the real problem? the real problem is the fact that you cannot see or sense the needle for all the damn hay but if you could magically removed only the hay or transformed it into something else, ashes, then the needle would be easier to find. The next problem is finding the needle in the ashes, the easy answer is that we would not have to find it if something simple could find it for us like a permanent magnet.

One lesson here is that the answers always sound easy and obvious after the fact but never before because we tend to make assumptions based on our experience or memorized information. It is these assumptions which usually result in our inability to see problems for what they really are and solve them in new and creative ways. Now ask youself these questions;
Who said you must search through the hay stack?
Who said the hay must be moved?
Who said the hay stack must remain intact in it's present form?
Who said you must search for the needle in the hay stack to find it?

The problem here is that usually our mind has decided the facts of the matter before it has actually considered the problem. It automatically draws on "experience" or beliefs and builds a wall which excludes all other possibilities. Maybe this is why so many brilliant minds have said that the mind and our senses cannot be trusted. Consider that a majority of people believe anti-gravity is impossible and that it is equivalent to trying to fly by pulling on ones own boot straps. Yet I would be willing to bet that 99.99% of people could not give me any explanation for what gravity is. That is not the effects of gravity, the fact that masses would seem to attract one another, but what this force is fundamentally?, why masses would seem to attract, what is the exact mechanism for this apparent attraction?. This leads to another question, how can so many people be so absolutely sure about something they know absolutely nothing about? In this case the only real fact may be in regards to the phrase--" your guess is as good as mine" as nobody knows for sure and what is stated as fact is in fact speculation.
In any case I thought I would throw this out here so that people might consider how we solve problems in a new perspective.
Regards
AC

[Aaron]

needle in haystack

You need one match and one powerful permanent magnet.

LOL, that could be a classic! That is so true.

But when Tesla said that, he was making fun of Edison that Edison takes
the massive trial and error route instead of simply making a calculated
guess and just doing it right the first time.

[Farmhand]

How would you find the needle if the needle was made from a bone ? Bone needle's were common in past times and still are in some places.



Cheers

[Duncan]

dowse!

[jibbguy]

Very nice analogy, AC

But it presupposes there is not a cabal to ignore the truth in the first place.

In regards to "anti-gravity", I believe there is no question that many scientists know exactly what it is and have for years; and thus know how to manipulate it.

But that this is "forbidden knowledge"... for whatever reason be it "corruption" to maintain the current energy status quo (since "anti-grav" is by definition "free energy" as well), or for legitimate "dangerous weapons" National Security reasons, or a meld of both (which is most likely imo).

This "secretization" of a major area of Physics is why today's science and Physics Theory is so screwed-up and nonsensical especially about "gravity".... and is one reason why these things are not often openly studied by universities or openly discussed in Scientific circles... considering the import of it.

That is why from my own point of view of Raising Public Awareness... i do not see much point in anti-grav studies, and try to concentrate on things that cannot be considered "national security dangers" except by corrupt a-hole liars.... and that is MOST of the technologies we discuss here... that ARE NOT real dangers... only "dangers" to those making profits from the current system that is destroying this planet.

For instance: Hydroxy cannot be "weaponized" to make super-weapons any more dangerous than what is already widely known.... and neither can pulse magnet motors and all similar techs. They are only dangers to "corporate security".... and to hell with those sociopaths, they deserve to go down

Every movie that Hollywood makes that features new energy sources always has it as a dangerous "bomb" This is deliberate psy-ops, and is done for very specific reasons. Look at who holds the funding reigns for getting movies made in the first place: Who decides what screen play is made into a movie or TV script. The denial of funding is how it is done. Thats why you never see any positive free energy related movies or TV shows. Popular culture is used to control the thoughts of the masses in a passive way... Even commercial ads are part of this.

Sorry if i took that off-topic (that of "problem solution"), but it needed to be said

[DavidE]

AC

The problem here is that usually our mind has decided the facts of the matter before it has actually considered the problem. It automatically draws on "experience" or beliefs and builds a wall which excludes all other possibilities.

Scientific experimental trials show this result to be likely true. The question for me that opens at this point is - is this an inherited/learned human software capacity, or a hint at the mind capacity to go forward in time (then back to the moment). One seems like a logical explanation, the other a little past our ability to comprehend. Maybe ask Ingo Swann?

[Farmhand]

I don't get it, once you burned the hay you would be looking for a needle in a pile of ashes not a haystack, which tells me the haystack must remain as hay.

Also if you burn it the hay is now wasted and the needle is wrecked, it would need to be re-hardened and re-polished.

That would be like burning a forest to find someone lost there. All is lost.
Seems a bit futile.

I haven't tried yet but you could have trouble striking the match on the magnet aswell.

There must be a better way.

Your also assuming the needle is made from a ferrous material.

I'm all for novel ways to solve problems but they must also be practical to be usefull I wouldn't burn one of my stacks of hay to find a needle any more than I would shoot holes in my rainwater tank to find out how much water is in it.

I do get what you are saying about automatic thoughts, there are some cognitive therepies that teach people not to listen to automatic thoughts and use logic, reasoning and common sense when presented with difficulties or problems.

Often people's first thoughts are automatic and come from the subconscious, A truly thinking person never acts on these automatic thoughts without further reasoning in the conscious mind, setting aside assumptions and preconceptions.

While your solution may be valid, I would not be happy if it was my haystack and my needle.

After I think of a solution to a problem I try to determine if the result will cause more problems, I call it predictive reasoning.

There are many lessons in life.

The best lessons are those we teach ourselves. After all who else can you really trust.

Yay I did a rant.

I mean no offence AC, You have identified a real problem.

And I do believe it possible to overcome gravity but anti-gravity is a curly one it's all in the definition of gravity and anti-gravity.

Cheers.

[Harvey]

Interestingly, the real solution to this problem was solved thousands of years ago where thistle needles would get intermingled with the grain. How did they do it? Ironically, with gravity and wind.

The threshing floor was used to beat the stalks thus separating the chaff from the grain - the straw from the seeds.

The heavier thistles would stay with the seeds, but the size was strikingly apparent to anyone looking upon the floor - the needle would stand out like the proverbial "sore thumb".

The harmful parts could then be removed from the grain and the straw could then be used as required. The process required much work and sifting but was effective and less time consuming than inspecting each piece of straw to see if a needle had become stuck in it somehow.

But the proverbial saying "looking for a needle in a haystack" is not about labor, work or time. It is about searching for something hidden, hunting for something not easily found. And we therefore begin logically reducing the problem to a process, one that helps to flush out the thing we desire to find. Hounds are used to flush out the fox, the duck and the quail. Luminol is used to flush out blood in fabric. Microscopes for cancer cells, Telescopes for Quasars and the list goes on forever.

It is not stated whether Tesla was Edison's assistant at the time, but it does make sense when we evaluate the story completely. As the story goes, Edison was working on the light bulb and asked his assistant to determine the volume of a particular globe he had manufactured by a glass blower. Now we know that Tesla would scarcely begin eating his soup until first he had accurately measured the volume of the bowl using advanced mathematics. As the story goes, Edison returned some indeterminate time later to find his assistant carefully measuring each curve and each dimension to give the accurate volume of the globe so that the proper quantity of gas could be inserted. Edison, frustrated by such waste of brain power grabbed the globe, filled it with water and poured the water in a beaker to accurately measure it's volume. Rather than working together, Tesla and Edison grew apart and two of the greatest minds competed with each other to such an extent that the entire world has suffered from their failure to resolve their differences and work together. Edison stated that he could always hire an engineer - and correctly so. Tesla on the other hand viewed Edison as an oaf of sorts that plodded through life by trial and error and thus his statement regarding Edison's search for the right 'mix' of gas and tungsten.

Of course Moray showed that you could take the heat out of the filament and still get a good luminosity by increasing the voltage and frequency. Sadly, none of these three men ever truly understood that the filament was in fact a high frequency oscillator that would radiate electromagnetic energy well above the radio spectrum. Also, it is sad that Tesla exposed himself to so much UV light in is arc experiments that he undoubtedly altered his own DNA in the process leading himself to expire before his time. But such struggles are the stuff that history is made of.

What is this needle we are searching for and what are its properties? If it's properties are known, then perhaps we can build a threshing floor to expose it for all to see.

[Stealth]

solutions to the problem

Very good analogies of the solutions to the problem.When we are young,before we are taught that these things won't work, we have a different way of dealing with problems.I knew a clown that would perform at parties,but if children were mostly present,he would decline. Children were not captivated by his magic.They didn't know these things were impossible.When the Rubics cube first came out,children were not intimidated by it's complexity.They solved it far better than most grownups.We need to look at things the way children do,before they are told these things are impossible. A youngster could find that needle in the haystack easier than we could,because he would go about it in a different way.I don't think he would burn it down,but he would find a different solution to this problem. I call it thinking outside of the box.The bible talks about being more like children,and I think this is what it is referring to. A different way of looking at things.Good Luck. Stealth

[Harvey]

Very good analogies of the solutions to the problem.When we are young,before we are taught that these things won't work, we have a different way of dealing with problems.I knew a clown that would perform at parties,but if children were mostly present,he would decline. Children were not captivated by his magic.They didn't know these things were impossible.When the Rubics cube first came out,children were not intimidated by it's complexity.They solved it far better than most grownups.We need to look at things the way children do,before they are told these things are impossible. A youngster could find that needle in the haystack easier than we could,because he would go about it in a different way.I don't think he would burn it down,but he would find a different solution to this problem. I call it thinking outside of the box.The bible talks about being more like children,and I think this is what it is referring to. A different way of looking at things.Good Luck. Stealth

Yeah, I remember telling a teacher once that we could use balloons to find the needle in a haystack

[Harvey]

In all seriousness though - my company was hired by a composting outfit for exactly this problem.

The outfit would get paid to remove sludge from drainage ditches, farms and horse tracks. The sludge was broken down biologically and introduced into mulch and eventually made its way to a salable product as gardening mix.

However, these sources of sludge also carried with them the unsavory reality of hypodermic needles embedded in the material - not something you want making its way to the final bag of mix. Many of these needles are non magnetic while at the same time there is a very large concentration of iron oxide in the sludge. So normal metal detectors just wouldn't work right nor would magnetic means of extraction. An engineer working for the outfit came up with a brilliant plan to build a large non conductive drum and have protruding out of it several hundred conductive spikes. He then charged the spikes with 220VAC and would filter the mulch through the spikes. If a needle shorted the spikes, it would theoretically trip the breaker and alert the operator who would then look for the offending piece - if possible.

Research exposed two problems with the system. First, the supply lines were inadequate and secondly the voltage was too low to properly reach some items between the spikes. These two problems were fixed and I proposed a proper current sensing system to stop the conveyor rather than relying on circuit breakers to do that Evidently, my proposal was too costly because the main office came back with some statistics regarding the quantity of needles and the probability of a lady getting poked by one while planting flowers in her garden. The main office opted to save the R & D money and apply it to an insurance policy instead.

[anonymussle]

Oooh! A philosophical discussion! It's like a bright shiny thing to a fish! And as such I'd like to offer my 2 cents worth...

First, a couple of quotes I want to offer to anyone who's worked so hard at these off-beat endeavors called "renewable-energy", "over-unity", "energy-from-the-vacuum" and even "anti-gravity" if one wants to go that far:

1) If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it. -- Albert Einstein

2) An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education too seriously. -- Charles F. Kettering, American Inventor

With those in mind I'd like to point out that some of the most successful inventors/scientists I know about would be those who never really take things too seriously. And... manage to maintain that state of mind and their persistence in some endeavor regardless of any opposition.

In the case of the "needle in the haystack" (even though it's just an analogy) my concern would be if burning the hay would make a fire hot enough to melt the needle. If so, what other solution could there be? Personally I'd try to find as many volunteers as I could, divide the hay up between all of them and see which one finds the needle in their personal pile of hay (adding incentives if necessary). I suppose, in a way, that's who we all are at the moment, all volunteers, sifting through a giant pile of hay. If we were more organized we could probably get a lot more work done and find more solutions.

There's probably any number of ways to solve the haystack. But regardless of what solution is being attempted, I think it's important to maintain a sense of enthusiasm and persistence if you want to get anywhere, even if you have to "pretend" this attitude on some days.

In all honesty, sometimes these endeavors are the only reason I have to get up in the morning. Feels kinda like Saturday morning cartoons when I was a kid.

Anonymussle

[Aaron]

bone needle

How would you find the needle if the needle was made from a bone ? Bone needle's were common in past times and still are in some places.



Cheers

Fire and a screen?

[Aaron]

needle from haystack

I don't get it, once you burned the hay you would be looking for a needle in a pile of ashes not a haystack, which tells me the haystack must remain as hay.

Also if you burn it the hay is now wasted and the needle is wrecked, it would need to be re-hardened and re-polished.

That would be like burning a forest to find someone lost there. All is lost.
Seems a bit futile.

I haven't tried yet but you could have trouble striking the match on the magnet aswell.

There must be a better way.

You drop the haystack with needle into a hopper and put it
through this implosion pump, which is a free energy machine because
more work is done in "lifting" and transporting the material than energy
is used to operate the pump.

YouTube - Implosion Pump better than Schauberger can clean up oil spill in Gulf

Anyway, out the end is the lighter hay coming out towards the bottom
and you put a dividing wedge towards the top to have the needle move
out and separate out away form the hay. This isn't theoretical, this
is in fact how to separate items based on mass. Everything moves through
that pipe without touching the sides of the pipe.

That pump can literally separate the needle from the haystack
while negatively charging the hay at the same time which will keep it
fresher much longer with less chance of getting molds, etc...

[theremart]

RE: Needle

How do you know you looking in the right haystack? :-)

What does the needle look like, and how big is it?



Tesla was very good at math equations, as i recall he pointed to this fact in explaining this his comparison to his method as compared to Edison.


But to give Edison credit I doubt that mathematics would of easily given us the filament for our light bulbs if all we did do math equations. Some trial and error is very helpful for some problem while higher degrees of calculus sure saves alot of sweat on bigger problems. I guess you try both methods for a short period of time and go with the one that works.