Gray Conversion Tube System Plans

[Guest]

Hello everyone - I've been planning this out for some time,
and have seen a lot of information pertaining to how the circuit
operates. Aaron, I now understand the method by which this works
thanks to your replications and effort.

Having the diode D1 activated with low-voltage will turn it on,
then the pressure of the high-voltage will squeeze through it in
the opposite direction, causing it to deactivate and backfire
the large potential across the gap and onto the mesh tube.

The HV ignition coil driver portion is thanks to the gurus at
RMCybernetics, where they seem to have generated quite a lot of
high voltage lately.

Here it is then - open for scrutiny. By all means, I welcome
any and all comments, suggestions, reasons why it wouldn't work, etc

[lamare]

@geotron,

I have done a fresh analysis of Grays system and it works quite differently then all of us where thinking. Please consider checking out my article linked in my sig below.

[Guest]

energy compression

The way you have specified matches the understanding I have found
in many forms. The stream of energy is sitting still, then a portion
of it is given higher potential and directed against where it is
originating for an instant before the diode D1 deactivates.

Once it pushes on the 12V potential, more of its high-potential energy
has saturated the materials of the tube than can be contained. The
extra collects between the electrodes and is dissipated away onto the
waiting mesh tube being the only path left.

[lamare]

IMHO, this is how Gray's HF spark gap oscillator works:

Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

In this picture you see the essential components involved with the oscillation. The oscillation frequency is very hard to determine or control, but is mainly determined by the RC time. The capacitance is dominated by capacitance between the LV rod and the Grid, while the resistance should be dominated by the (variable) resistor, the "resistive element", which is shown to be variable in Grays schematic shown above. When the spark gap breaks, the capacitor is charged within a very short period of time, something in the order of nano seconds. At that moment, there is no voltage difference between the HV and LV rods anymore, so the spark shuts off and the capacitor is discharged trough the resistor, until it reaches such a low voltage that the spark gap breaks again. The grid is connected to an inductive load, which also has some parasite capacitance, estimated somewhere between 100 pF and 1 nF for a power transformer, while the capacitance between the LV rod and the grid is estimated to be in the order of 1-10 pF.

For simplicity, I have drawn the variable resistor and the load inductor as being connected to ground. In the actual device, this is not the case, which means this system is extremely difficult to control and/or tune. The timing depends not only on the capacitance between the LV rod and the grid, but also on the parasite capacitance of the load, for example. It also depends on the discharge circuitry behind the variable resistor, which is also very complicated. So, to make a long story short: this is a nightmare to tune and/or control in the way this has been done. No wonder so far most people that studied this concluded that the CSET did not work. Well, it does work in theory, but getting this to work in practice is very challenging indeed.

IMHO, Aaron's story and his connection to the water spark plug gives you nice sparks and interesting effects, but no power. You get the power using high frequency resonance effects and decoupling of driving circuitry and load circuitry:

The basic theory for this is Tom Bearden's "don't kill the dipole" as described in this article. Basic conclusion of that: the electric field comes for free. Potential (voltage) comes for free as long as you don't influence the charge carriers that create your dipole, your voltage source. In the analysed systems, they all excite two inductive loads in series. Gray excited both terminals of the load train in phase, while Puharich and Meyer did this out of phase. This explains why Gray most likely used bifilar wound coils. To understand the basic principle, it is perhaps best to think in the line I have been following towards the solution of this mistery, which is as follows.

When you resonate an open coil in full wave resonance, you get high voltage, zero current at the terminals, in phase. So there you have the basic connection to using the voltage source for free, but you have to figure out a way to do that without disturbing the charge carriers that give you the voltage source.

With a single coil, the current stays inside the coil, so you can't use that. So, when you split the coil into two, you get the current in the middle for free, provided you don't disturb your voltage source, your driving circuit. So normally, when you use the current, you will disturb the resonance, which will eventually also disturb your driving circuit (because it is somehow coupled with it), so you still have to provide current to keep the system in resonance and pay the price.

And here's the trick: the driving signal is delivered to the coil on top of a half rectified carrier wave, which is fed into the circuit trough a high pass filter. Because the carrier is half rectified, you basically "touch" the coils into one direction, so you don't get any HF in there.

That way, you get the current and the power, but the disturbances caused by using the power, cannot reach the driving circuit, because of the high pass filter! And then you finally got what you want. You can use your voltage source, without disturbing it, so then you don't have to pay the price.

Once you have that clear, you can also imagine that you can drive this principle much further. As long as you make sure you have a proper decoupling between driving circuitry and load circuitry, you can most likely get by without driving the load train into resonance after all. At this moment, this still has to be experimentally verified.

[Aaron]

the method

Aaron, I now understand the method by which this works
thanks to your replications and effort.

Having the diode D1 activated with low-voltage will turn it on,
then the pressure of the high-voltage will squeeze through it in
the opposite direction, causing it to deactivate and backfire
the large potential across the gap and onto the mesh tube.

Geotron,

That's right! When the diode is "on", it is an obvious clear path to
ground, the battery +, then to the -, which is connected to the same
ground as the HV side.

And then the diode shuts off and like you say will "backfire" across to
the grid to power any inductive load.

That is splitting the positive. Small portion goes to charge that battery
that was used to turn the diode on and the rest goes to power the
load. That is not only what splitting the positive really means, it is even
what Ed Gray's son told him it meant and is what Bedini said it meant
and most people don't see it but essentially, the SSG's also split the
positive in a similar manner.

[Aaron]

power

IMHO, Aaron's story and his connection to the water spark plug gives you nice sparks and interesting effects, but no power. You get the power using high frequency resonance effects and decoupling of driving circuitry and load circuitry:

I can assure you there is plenty of power - not sure how you can claim
there is no power when you haven't built what I built. The punch in the
load is stronger than simply dumping a capacitor or battery to the load.
It is anything but "nice sparks and interesting effects."

I gave the proper definition of what splitting the positive means to Geotron.

[lamare]

I can assure you there is plenty of power - not sure how you can claim
there is no power when you haven't built what I built. The punch in the
load is stronger than simply dumping a capacitor or battery to the load.
It is anything but "nice sparks and interesting effects."

I gave the proper definition of what splitting the positive means to Geotron.

"not sure how you can claim there is no power when you haven't built what I built"

Okay, maybe I was a bit too short around the corner. I cannot say with certainty that you cannot gain any power using your point of view. We discussed about that some time ago, and there are some mechanisms that may play a role, but I don't remember exactly.

Still, I am convinced that my theory will turn out to be correct, because everything does fit together like the pieces of a puzzle and can be explained from the bottom up using basically nothing but Bearden's "don't kill the dipole".

[Guest]

update

I've replaced the BFY51 transistor with a 2N718A.

They've both got a current gain of 40 at 150mA, while
the 2N718A has a 60Hz maximum operating frequency compared
to the 50Hz of BFY51.

Its maximum collector-emitter voltage is +2 greater as
well, amounting to a total of 32v.

[Guest]

Signal Generator

This is the working schematic for the timing portion.

[Guest]

capacitor charging

Utilizing a 12V battery as described previously, Aaron, you've
said before that it is difficult to obtain the effect in this
way without extreme ionization of the tube.

I'm thinking of tapping the signal generator output into a
second transistor circuit in order to drive a small adapter
transformer into a bridge rectifier to fill a capacitor connected
to the LV blocking diode. Initially before starting it up, the
capacitor would be charged by a utility switch connected
onto Ground, then once running become replenished automatically.

[Aaron]

lv source

Hi Geotron,

Yes, caps at a couple hundred volts as the LV source works every time.

Now I didn't have 4000v at a few uf either... had 1000~1300v at 2uf at the
highest as a discharge. At 4000v, might just do it. I didn't have a power
supply to get that high of a voltage in the cap fast enough.

[Guest]

building concerns

The eventual goal of my project with this is to continually upgrade
the voltage, amperage, and insulation until it has reached the maximum
capacity of what can be obtained from the ignition coil.

It seems the results you've obtained at the 1000V level are staggering
in the amount of torque being generated on your magnetic rotor. I'm
uncertain by what method you've fabricated it, with such a clean surface
surely by an effective means.

The Newman motor I've got in store will be using around 1000ft of 25g
enameled wire per coil, a quarter-inch driveshaft, and six 1-inch neodymium
permanent magnets. Once I'm able to measure and tune the output of the
ignition coil with a digital multimeter and get the Radiant Event, the
rest of it will likely fit together in due course.

The pull of the magnets sits around 50lbs on a single pole, so having
three of them per side combined ought to really get it going. I've got
.25inch brass bar as well as steel, so if the steel turns out to not
work so well I'll try using JB Weld to hold the initial two magnets onto
the brass.

[Guest]

spark gaps, etc

I've nearly finished construction, and am now faced with the challenge
of adjusting the spark gaps. The distance required by 900-1000V in order
to charge up the HV-side capacitor bank is so small that its giving me
a run around adjusting things to work correctly. My best run so far was
charging them up to around 400V.

It may require that I figure out some mechanical way to nudge them with
the use of a gear or another inventive way. Advice is this area would be
much appreciated.

The following is my LV cap charging circuit, and I have attached it to the
same signal output as is going to the ignition coil driver. It also has its own
transistor coil-driving circuit identical to the other one.

At this point I'm considering rebuilding the conversion tube portion, as
it is not made to have an adjustable spark gap, so lots of fun ahead. I'm
thinking of a way to set it up from the inside-out to eliminate guesswork,
or yet again as I've already mentioned with mechanical gadgetry to allow
small adjustments once put together.

[SilverToGold]

Where is your carbon in the Gray Tube?

[Guest]

- - -

The original design illustration is attached - and might I add that in
order to tune the output from the ignition coil, it ought to be channeled
through a rectifier diode, and then into the following divider circuit.
The resistance of your 10M digital multimeter is added to a 5.1Mohm R2
resistor, so you do not want a 15.1Mohm resistor for R2 but rather a 5.1

Results indicate 900V will end up as around 7.3VDC when sent through a
high voltage rectifier with a 55V foward voltage drop.