Alternating capacitor discharge circuit

[Farmhand]

A thought just occured to me after watching an IGBT being partially transformed into smoke by unconstrained current flow.

Does a solar panel degrade more from the radiated heat from the sun or from the current effects ?

I wonder how long a solar panel would last if it didn't have to bear so much heat from the sun and or so much current.

Anyway the mosfet idea I had was completely incorrect. I'm also starting to wonder if the alternating is even needed for a simple low power arrangement.

[Farmhand]

Sucahyo, I'm very sorry for not replying earlier.

You use 6V (18V-12V) relay then?

With a relay in series and voltage fairly low the voltage is less of a factor than the current, I try to think of it as a tidal period, just before the tide is full the flow slows considerably, by my observations at least. The relay coil or paralleled coils would need to allow very little resistance to the source, while still providing the needed strength of field to actuate the relay. With semiconductors this could be slightly different, as some I think require only voltage variation to the gate to function in a basic fashion..

I've found that a relay rated slightly lower than the source-cap working voltage best from what i've tried. But that was with Inductive Terminal or end load (a coil).

I think the effective current flow through the coil could be determined by the Source-Cap relationship. Impedance ect. I wouldn't like to try though.

Semiconductors would be preferable only for the ease of very low resistance, in my opinion anyway.

Best regards
Andrew

[Matthew Jones]

A thought just occured to me after watching an IGBT being partially transformed into smoke by unconstrained current flow.
Does a solar panel degrade more from the radiated heat from the sun or from the current effects ?
I wonder how long a solar panel would last if it didn't have to bear so much heat from the sun and or so much current.
Anyway the mosfet idea I had was completely incorrect. I'm also starting to wonder if the alternating is even needed for a simple low power arrangement.

Heat. But the current passing through them while they are hot also, because of the resistance. You don't get the power but you have the same amount of activity in the cells. So it kinda like running on treadmill.
Thats how it was explained to me anyway.

I know if you run water over them they kick out another 40% or more depending on the overall temperatures.

Matt

[Farmhand]

Thanks Matt, That does make a lot of sense.

Heat. But the current passing through them while they are hot also, because of the resistance. You don't get the power but you have the same amount of activity in the cells. So it kinda like running on treadmill.
Thats how it was explained to me anyway.

That does explain some things.

Ta.

[Farmhand]

Tesla Solar Amplifier

Hello all,

I am reluctant to admit that this is not as simple as it first seems, I am able to get a surging output above the 280 mA rated max power output of the solar panel with only 55 mA from the panel using a simple choking effect of the negative line between the battery and cap, though the effect seems to dissapear at higher panel outputs. This was using an SCR. I am unable to measure the frequency of the surging. I am convinced though that there is the possibility of seriously overcharging batteries without the correct precautions in place within the device. And considering this I think I will just buy a Tesla Power Amplifier, to be safe. The convenience and duribility will be well worth it for me.

My original diagram has several flaws as can be seen, only the bottom cap 3 is separated in part from the panel before discharge. I think the principal is sound. I have done some testing with bought relays. A very simple setup for low light conditions could be made durable in my opinion, with relays or semiconductors.

I have determined to my own satisfaction that this principal is very useful. I lack the time to explore this further, intensively.

Best regards
Andrew

[gmeast]

photovoltaic solar panel = semiconductor material

A thought just occured to me after watching an IGBT being partially transformed into smoke by unconstrained current flow.

Does a solar panel degrade more from the radiated heat from the sun or from the current effects ?

I wonder how long a solar panel would last if it didn't have to bear so much heat from the sun and or so much current.

Anyway the mosfet idea I had was completely incorrect. I'm also starting to wonder if the alternating is even needed for a simple low power arrangement.

Hello Farmhand,

Photovoltaic cells and solar panels are comprised a specific arrangements and types of semiconductor materials ... just like Transistors, IGBT's, MOSFETS, etc. I general terms, and as is with most semiconductor-based components, the performance decreases with elevated temperatures. Solar panels are no different. As the ambient temperature goes up, the output power of the solar panel goes down. This is easy to demonstrate to yourself with any solar panel, mono-crystalline, poly-crystalline, amorphous, thin-film. Simply apply an appropriate load to a solar panel with something like a light or DC. electric motor. At peak sunlight, high noon, note the current draw on the load. Now pour some cool water (water much cooler than the ambient temperature) onto the panel's surface and observe the increase in power output ... the light will light brighter and/or the motor will run faster (assuming the motor is actually powering something ... or not).

That's why when you are sizing an array of solar panels to an inverter, you must make sure that your array's output voltage does not exceed the inverter's maximum allowable input voltage. To determine this, you must look at the manufacturer's voltage vs temperature data curves published for every solar panel made. If you know someone with solar PV on their home, ask them to squirt the garden hose on the panels and watch the output increase ... it can go up by as much as 20% to 30% on a really, really hot day.

This may have been irrelevant. Sorry if so. If not, then I hope it helped.

Greg

[Farmhand]

Hi gmeast, Yes excess heat is a small problem but difficult to avoid.

I would definitly not use a performance tuned device with an amplifying effect without the proper safety precautions, it could be dangerous. I think that may be why John says he dare not turn it up, he is very wise, from what I can tell.

I never really doubted it myself and he does promote experimentation. So I did. It doesn't seem to be too difficult to amplify a charge in different ways, my fear would be controlling the output correctly. I'm not qualified to give any safety opinions but I think John must have it worked out. So i'm going to go that way.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

I should say to clarify that I don't have a clue how The Tesla Power Amplifier works, and that the way I chose to experiment seemed obvious to me.

Even my untrained mind tells me that there are a number of different switching solutions that could be used with the principle I tried, with differing effect but I believe the principal itself is blatently obvious and very usefull.

I plan to experiment further of course at a later date, and with better equipment and such.

Cheers all

[Farmhand]

The experimental device I used in the video uses the forces of nature to cause the triggering of the SCR and also effects it's behavior.

I am happy to elaborate on the principal behind this but it is hard to explain, so I would have to draw a picture to help me, which I am attempting though I don't usually use pen and paper, but I will try, if requested. It is not an ideal way. But it allows function of sorts.

Cheers.

[Jbignes5]

Think of it as this Farmhand.

Since most of John's stuff is trying to use voltage only then you can see why it would "amplify" the ability of the cell to perform at a higher efficiency. When you use only the voltage potential of the panel there is no heat producing current to get in the way. In other words it is a benefit to use the panel in a voltage only method.

As others have attested heat reduces the panels output. Knowing this little fact one could conclude that we look like we are getting more out of it but when you work with potential (voltage) only you need to interact with the environment to get the needed charges to enter your system.

Lets say you are charging batteries. These batteries act like huge magnets to the charges. They pull charges from the environment to balance the voltage you supply to the battery. The problem with that is that if you are trying to use the batteries just after this process they don't have time to balance and you get a fluffy charge. After awhile of conditioning the material or dielectric in this case gets polarized to this steady sucking that is created in the battery. The problem in this case is yes it changes the cases substructure (polarization). This is an unwanted event and I'll tell you why....

Some times if the batteries are not moved from the space they are sitting there is a dampening field or low pressure zone surrounding the batteries. If a lot of the batteries are used as virtual diodes they tend to continue running even if you disconnect the rest of the circuit. This is a major problem when stacking and banks are used. This dampening field has a slow drain effect on anything in that field. Including living matter. Just look up Ronald Brandt. Do some reading and you will see the proof or the reports of the events.

But if we take the same method and instead shield the batteries from the environment then we can make an antenna pair to pull charges in. This does two things. It makes the extraction of charges in the air more directed. In between two thin antennas and it helps keep it localized even further. Although it is more intense in that sheet that is formed between the antennas it balances better and you don't have a field of dampening then. A field would look like a huge donut around the batteries. Depending on the draw from the batteries determines the size of this field when charging starts again. Heavily drained batteries cause a bigger field of dampening when using this method.

Now John did compensate for the bank size by slowing the pulse rate way down. This helps but does not get rid of the problem. Basically the batteries are being used as antennas and it does have real changes on the dielectric part of the batteries. How do we fix it I mentioned above. Protect the batteries from forming this dielectric polarization and add an in and out. This way it makes the changes more immediate with the antennas and not stored as a pressure in the dielectric material of the batteries.

If properly designed this would give it way more power available to the system and use the batteries as a reserve and possibly reduce the size of the battery bank to just a few and still be able to extract tons of charges from the environments and keep the sustained pressure as low as possible to the environment.

[Farmhand]

Hello Jbignes5,
My observations only lead me to more puzzling questions, I imagined there would be a field around the battery. It seems to be everywhere I look these days. I usually space the batteries apart a bit. This dohnut intrigues me. And I think I know why. I'll try to get some materials for some antenna experiments. And some fuses for my meters

It's hard not to miss subtle things. My test batteries are conditioned and "modified" and difficult to drain sometimes. So measurements are very difficult. I would prefer not to rely on certain componants that I currently use for primary power. They may not always be so easily available. I don't think I require any high frequency switching as such. And would like to explore other more natural methods that are more like a slow handshake than a quick grab. As in source - load relationship. No batteries.

Your input is very helpfull.
Thank You

[Jbignes5]

No problem.

Just remember to make a safety for any system using this technique. That way if it goes into run away mode you can easily end the process. If the technique is used properly even with batteries it can be quite the experience. I think John found a method of energy extraction but it does imprint a method that is hard to stop in the batteries material. Like continued charging without being on the unit.

That one fact tells me that something gets setup within the material of the battery is that the battery gets changed somehow from all the reports. This is a reversable but slow event. since almost all batteries used a dielectric including the case I would think that it would have the same effect as a layden jar. This process can take days to balance out.

The donut field I am talking about has been addressed by John by slowing the pulses down a bit and giving the material a relax time but the effect is still there and quite slow since the charges external to the batteries has to filter through the batteries non polarized dielectric to attain that balance. What I propose is to bypass that filter and increase the flow in a controlled way. That way you know where it is, and it is there in a controllable manner, not buried in a field like effect around your device in an uncontrolled state.

John supplied an out for the energy but no in and that causes a pressure like effect to happen. This pressure drives the field that surrounds the battery with a constant slow trickle that is much akin to the dam analogy. Another more direct analogy would be to drill small holes in a closed off pipe and then put it into a pond. It doesn't fill the tube all at once and takes some time depending on the holes sizes and volume of the tube.

It has been reported that a static like emission comes from the batteries casing meaning that this is exactly what is happening in my explanation or at the least a very near approximation of the event surrounding the batteries.

The one thing that surprises me at this point is that people assume that the radiative event is the energy. Well nothing could be further from the truth. The radiative event is an attraction event. It attracts the conductors of charge to the radiative event. When these charge carriers align up the make a pathway for the charges to be attracted to the radiative source this is the virtual manifesting the real. This is much akin to pulling the plug from a drain when the sink is full. The complex flow that happens after the pulling of the plug is the same reaction you get from these radiative events.

Although Tesla used the radiative event to cause movement in the medium which he could tap, when a receiver was in resonance with that medium, he did not fully understand the event itself. He even says that himself. When he finally got to the further experiments he found that instead of supplying the movement to all the medium around the broadcaster it wasn't the reason he got massive charges. This lead him to believe that the radiative event was only a method of aligning the medium to let charges flow anywhere he wanted.

After some time and further experiments he learned that man just wasn't interested in providing for their own. They wanted a way to collect massive cash reserves instead and he lost his biggest experiment in radiative broadcasters to that fact. This lead him to design a way to personally cause the movement in a controlled manner (safest) and locally take advantage of that movement to allow the free charges in our atmosphere into the system then back out in the cleanest possible way and to not disturb the environment in a bad way as well.

He did not get to release this information before he died. In fact I think he died before his time as well. In the end he was very very close to releasing this system and the "man" had to stop that. This is plainly clear when we see what events happened after his death. All items pertaining to this release was confiscated by the "man" as soon as Tesla died. After all if one devised a way to get rid of the mans control over it's subjects then you loose all power over those people.

[gmeast]

bedini's stuff

Hi gmeast, Yes excess heat is a small problem but difficult to avoid.

I would definitly not use a performance tuned device with an amplifying effect without the proper safety precautions, it could be dangerous. I think that may be why John says he dare not turn it up, he is very wise, from what I can tell.

I never really doubted it myself and he does promote experimentation. So I did. It doesn't seem to be too difficult to amplify a charge in different ways, my fear would be controlling the output correctly. I'm not qualified to give any safety opinions but I think John must have it worked out. So i'm going to go that way.

Cheers

Isn't everyone still anxiously awaiting THE announcement that someone has a Bedini system, up and running, producing MORE useful power than it's consuming?

Ever since his stuff (Bedini's) has been, mostly, available only via postal mail (no real functioning internet then ... just what I used at the college), I have been waiting ... just as with Newman's stuff.


"I think that may be why John says he dare not turn it up, he is very wise, from what I can tell."

****WHAT ? TUNE THE DAMNED THING UP ! ! ! CUMMON' PEOPLE !


None of this is new ... only to those who are either new to the internet or newly aware of the topic(s).

Greg

[Farmhand]

Hello gmeast,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmhand
Hi gmeast, Yes excess heat is a small problem but difficult to avoid.

I would definitly not use a performance tuned device with an amplifying effect without the proper safety precautions, it could be dangerous. I think that may be why John says he dare not turn it up, he is very wise, from what I can tell.

I never really doubted it myself and he does promote experimentation. So I did. It doesn't seem to be too difficult to amplify a charge in different ways, my fear would be controlling the output correctly. I'm not qualified to give any safety opinions but I think John must have it worked out. So i'm going to go that way.

Cheers

The last two paragraphs were not actually intended to be directed to you in particular just a statement I thought important.

I am not distracted by overunity. Even if I were to find it, i'm not sure it is so important it should distract me, or make my life less enjoyable. My actual electrical power needs are quite small, but I could think of many uses for free power.

I won't be tuning anything I do not understand well. It would be difficult to tune something in sync with the irregular events of nature anyway to say the least and I have no way to achieve it at the moment. I would rather not try.

At the moment I am seeing a great many tons of water moving from the sky to the ground then the sea, I would rather not to try to control or tune that in the same way. Though it could do a lot of work for me, It could be dangerous for me and others "downstream" so to speak. I only manipulate what I have to or need to, to do otherwise seems pointless to me.

Regards
Andrew

[Farmhand]

Drawing

Hello All,
I have attached a drawing of the setup i'm trialing at the moment, most will recognise that the triggering method of the SCR is not my idea. I can't tell if it is protected or not, it does't appear complicated enough to patent. I havn't had full sun yet to fully test for problems. I am concerned about panel damage. I can't get a reliable trace with my scope i'm still learning how to use it.

It appears to me that this arrangement can produce cop>1 even when in a steady flow state, though I have no way to confirm this with my poor equipment, it would appear to be about 110% cop though I don't know why. The surging effect can be induced at different output level ranges by altering the capacitance.

This seems to me to be the most basic way I can increase panel efficiency. It could be usefull for some.

Regards
Andrew